Hortankin Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: Gudbranson is a mediocre at-best defenseman. He's a Sbisa+ Eye test and analytics support this. If Gudbranson was a 5th round draft pick, he would not have the same reputation. Based on his actual hockey abilities, he's a depth defenseman and nothing more. He doesn't fit the modern day NHL that requires puck abilities and skating. how highly Gallant speaks of him has me comfortably disagreeing with your statement. I bet if he wasn't on our team and someone suggested we trade for him you would say no way Flarida trades him. he may not be a #1 but he will be a huge part of our future core, may even get the A not his fault he got injured before he could adjust to a new style and gain chemistry with team mates. He may start out slow again next year but when he gets his game going you will change you thought on him pretty quickly. Theres a reason Benning traded McCann for him, to me only brainwashed analytic people like yourself would accept that trade. Sad part is McCann may still bust lol.. Gudbranson brings so many elements to the team he doesn't have to score a single point to be a solid top 4 Dman for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said: I don't think I have really exaggerated anything much of what I have said here in that post giving an overview of the last 3 years in Canucks related player transactions. Rather than just writing a snide remark or a gif or rolling eyes or facepalm emoticon it would be nice if you guys actually discussed a topic instead of ignoring an opinion because it doesnt jive with company rhetoric. Pretty much every argument you have made has been completely dismantled with even the most basic research, which you seem too lazy to do yourself. I'm still waiting for the list of teams you consider to be true rebuilds who didn't sign veteran players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 58 minutes ago, stawns said: My guess is that Crawford is seen as too old school Well his former assistant seems to be printing Cups in Chicago, so what do the Canucks have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Florida fans had very mixed reviews on Gudbranson, just like we do. And there's a reason for that. McCann is still a prospect, so why does it matter? Benning almost ruined him, which is ironic 'cause he was actually a good pick by Benning. Even if Benning is correct in thinking that McCann won't turn out, he still had solid value and Gudbranson still was the wrong target. That would also make McCann a bad pick in the end. Don't forget that high 2nd we gave away, too, which was essentially another late 1st. Asplund has looked good so far. Go to Florida's board and find the Gudbranson trade thread.......it was pretty unanimous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeBrew Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Semantics... you know exactly what I mean. Let me put it as simply as possible: D-men with significant NHL experience (300+ games) with obviously limited ability do not generally break-out in their mid 20's. Kronwall, Streit and even Rafalski are not good examples because they all entered the league in their mid 20's. The only good example is Souray because he didn't do much for his first 300 games in the NHL before breaking out into a quality offensive D-man. Based on this, expecting Gudbranson to magically break out is ignorant. Your argument is solely based on your own opinion of the evaluation of what you think of Gudbranson, which is incorrect and unsubstantiated, and your peculiar affixation on this "300 games" things which is irrelevant. We are not even expecting him to break like Souray, so how is he even an example to prove your point? We are hoping that he becomes a well-rounded top 4 defensive defenseman. For defensemen to come into this league in their draft +2 year is a RARITY. If you want a more direct comparison of what to expect from Gudbranson, look towards someone like Willie Mitchell - also someone who did not play a significant role in the NHL until into his later 20s. It is not called "magic" there buddy, its called progressing and maturing. It what happens in the NHL. At worst we could expect him to round out his game like Sbiza and become a serviceable top 4 defensemen that will keep other teams honest. Are you advocating that we just get rid of him because of your lack of foresight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Whose eye test? Florida fans, and Gallant, loved him so it can't be them. He was a 3rd overall pick, so can't be scouts. Enlighten us, great swami You'd fit right into JB's management team. "Gudbranson is a great defenseman because he was a third overall pick! Grab em Jim!" Scouts can't be wrong, therefore he's a good player. He stank in a Nucks uniform, no doubt. Why don't we talk about his hockey abilities... Not mobile No shot Zero offensive instincts Subpar Hockey IQ No ability to move the puck Not a great defender Doesn't drive offense/ make plays But yeah he hits and stuff. And was a third overall pick to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Mustapha said: Well his former assistant seems to be printing Cups in Chicago, so what do the Canucks have to lose? I'm not saying no to Crow, I loved him when he was here and met him several times and spent time with him on the ice. I think most GM's see him as obsolete as a HC. I personally think he's still fundamentally sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, HomeBrew said: At worst we could expect him to round out his game like Sbiza and become a serviceable top 4 defensemen that will keep other teams honest. Welp, there goes the credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, JohnTavares said: You'd fit right into JB's management team. "Gudbranson is a great defenseman because he was a third overall pick! Grab em Jim!" Scouts can't be wrong, therefore he's a good player. He stank in a Nucks uniform, no doubt. Why don't we talk about his hockey abilities... Not mobile No shot Zero offensive instincts Subpar Hockey IQ No ability to move the puck Not a great defender Doesn't drive offense/ make plays But yeah he hits and stuff. And was a third overall pick to boot. We're all entitled to our opinion. Yours just isn't very good, and, as Stuart Smalley might say, that's.......ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: You'd fit right into JB's management team. "Gudbranson is a great defenseman because he was a third overall pick! Grab em Jim!" Scouts can't be wrong, therefore he's a good player. He stank in a Nucks uniform, no doubt. Why don't we talk about his hockey abilities... Not mobile No shot Zero offensive instincts Subpar Hockey IQ No ability to move the puck Not a great defender Doesn't drive offense/ make plays But yeah he hits and stuff. And was a third overall pick to boot. And people thought Sbisa was the worst defenseman in the league last season. Now everyone wants him protected for the draft. Things can change from season to season. This season was a mess for alot of players. I have no doubt he'll come back much stronger next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, stawns said: I'm not saying no to Crow, I loved him when he was here and met him several times and spent time with him on the ice. I think most GM's see him as obsolete as a HC. I personally think he's still fundamentally sound. I think we can agree that whoever comes to town will be tasked with squeezing as much as possible out of their lineup if they hope to make the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, stawns said: We're all entitled to our opinion. Yours just isn't very good, and, as Stuart Smalley might say, that's.......ok Well played stawns; good facts and evidence to support your arguments. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeBrew Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Welp, there goes the credibility. Welp, there goes your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Now everyone wants him protected for the draft. Everyone at your local insane asylum, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mustapha said: I think we can agree that whoever comes to town will be tasked with squeezing as much as possible out of their lineup if they hope to make the playoffs Absolutely. I think if they can stay healthy they're right in the mix, as they were this season until the injuries just got to be too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: And people thought Sbisa was the worst defenseman in the league last season. Now everyone wants him protected for the draft. Things can change from season to season. This season was a mess for alot of players. I have no doubt he'll come back much stronger next season. Sbisa had a good streak for about 10-15 games before he regressed back to the same Pizza boy he's always been. Sbisa's "massive improvement" actually doesn't exist. He's a marginal player who took a marginal step forward. His low IQ will prohibit him to be anything more than a bottom pairing Dman. We expended valuable assets to acquire Gudbranson who is the same type of dman Sbisa is, but marginally better. This is like NHL 17 when youre fleecing teams by trading away overrated players for a stockpile of picks. Except were on the opposite end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: Well played stawns; good facts and evidence to support your arguments. Oh wait... Thanks, it's a gift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: This is like NHL 17 when youre fleecing teams by trading away overrated players for a stockpile of picks. Except were on the opposite end. Now that explains everything, including the blind sheep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 58 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: I see a spoon. I see your mouth. I see Jim Benning and Trevor Linden holding that spoon. Nobody knows what went down behind-the-scenes. What we do know, is that Hamhuis gave us 2 contenders to go to. And we couldn't even get a third/fourth round pick for him. And because were in a Willie D thread, it's not a try league, it's a get it done league. JB and co. did not get it done. Period. Incoming pathetic excuses and refusal to accept blame and take accountability cooked by the media, fed to the fans. Maybe being as new GM he didn't want to get taken advantage of, not wanting to take a 4th or 5th round pick. Other GM's new we were in a bad spot with our GM being left with terrible contracts to deal with and didn't want his career as a GM starting by letting other teams rob us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, JohnTavares said: Sbisa had a good streak for about 10-15 games before he regressed back to the same Pizza boy he's always been. Sbisa's "massive improvement" actually doesn't exist. He's a marginal player who took a marginal step forward. His low IQ will prohibit him to be anything more than a bottom pairing Dman. We expended valuable assets to acquire Gudbranson who is the same type of dman Sbisa is, but marginally better. This is like NHL 17 when youre fleecing teams by trading away overrated players for a stockpile of picks. Except were on the opposite end. You clearly don't remember Sbisa from last season if you haven't noticed the huge improvement to his game. Regardless, they forced a pairing of Hutton and Gudbranson early on that clearly wasn't a fit. Hutton struggled big time this season, and Gudbranson is not at the stage where he can carry his D-partner yet. Put him with a more suitable partner and you'll see his game improve. Not worried about the assets we gave up either. They wouldn't be doing much for us now or anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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