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2 hours ago, J.R. said:

@S'all Good Man @debluvscanucks, according to her press conference, CC wasn't even in the negotiating party with the Greens/Weaver. If she had real power and influence in her party and was one of the few pulling the strings, you'd think the 'leader' of the Liberals would be front and centre there, no...?

i think from Weavers comments since then tho its clear he never really had any intention of going with the Liberals and was going through the motions, so to me thats someone who knows how not to waste her time.

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Just now, J.R. said:

No, like multi-billionaire corporate types S'all.

 

$10 from someone who runs a private business is fine. $500,000 from a corporate donor who expects certain privileges and favours for that support, is not.

yah but that can't happen anymore... not sure what you think is going to happen exactly? The days of companies trying to reimburse employees for donations is over, or at least will be soon. Its all public record, you can go look up who gave what right now on the BC elections web site. 

 

The Libs in BC, much like the federal con's, will likely raise more dough because more people on the right side of the spectrum will max out the donation limit, but it can't be like before. 

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32 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I think it would be better politics to leave the dam half done.  A  eternal visual Memorial  to BC Liberal Mega Project Lies  and Mismanagement.

Leave it half done.    A BC Liberal   monument to  STAY for the next 20 years...

 

Use images of a derelict / decaying half built   BC Liberal dam     for the next 3-4 provincial elections....

 

Heh, Liberals did it with the Fast Ferries....   NOT it is Payback time....

That's an incredibly foolish and wasteful idea.

 

To say that the finances are unviable would be like knowing the price of spot power in 2024. If you have that kind of vision, you would have to know the costs of competing things such as coal or a barrel of oil. In 2024.

 

It's safe to say that a barrel of oil will cost somewhere between $5 and $500 dollars in 2024, but no promises.

 

A basic understanding of things helps when you want to shout them down....

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1 minute ago, Lancaster said:

I agree.  Too much money and jobs on the line for it to be cancelled.  

The plan going forward would mean a severe blow to the Greens (kingmaker, but unable to do something "Green").

Not sure about the effect on the BC NDP.  

Already posted what I figure will happen.

 

5 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

The NDP Greens get the good press for 'standing tough against the pipeline'. The Feds/Alberta will push it through, and likely give BC some concession somewhere (Green industry funds?) to agree to stop opposing it. BC gov will say 'we did all we could but the Feds pushed it through' and save face with something like extra Green Industry funding concession.

 

#politics101

 

As for the not building pipelines in 2017... They're going to move the oil one way or another. I'd rather it be done through a modern, safer pipeline than an older one or even worse, via rail. It's also better in a largely existing corridor and port than the ridiculous Northern Gateway one.

 

 

The Greens/NDP will likely get some other Green concession from the feds as counterbalance and the project will likely go through.

 

Personally I wish we'd refine it in Canada but that ship has sadly, likely sailed.

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6 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

i think from Weavers comments since then tho its clear he never really had any intention of going with the Liberals and was going through the motions, so to me thats someone who knows how not to waste her time.

Riiiiight. So governing the province and retaining power for her party are a waste of her time. You're welcome to view it that way I suppose.

 

I think it's a load of manure :lol:

 

3 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

yah but that can't happen anymore... not sure what you think is going to happen exactly? The days of companies trying to reimburse employees for donations is over, or at least will be soon. Its all public record, you can go look up who gave what right now on the BC elections web site. 

 

The Libs in BC, much like the federal con's, will likely raise more dough because more people on the right side of the spectrum will max out the donation limit, but it can't be like before. 

We'll see. I'd like to think that's true but those folk always seem to find a loophole. I'll wait and watch.

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6 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Killing the Kinder Morgan will incidentally destroy the Alberta NDP.  Talk about Blue on Blue attack.... or in this case, Orange on Orange.  

As I stated before it won't get killed.

 

The feds end up with final say by and large and any push back by the province is all appearance only

 

Weaver stands to gain:

  • Proportional representation
  • Party status
  • A Ban on union/corporate money
  • Foreign ownership taxes
  • 4 years of visible power

All of that for the low low cost of simply saying ok to twinning and upgrading a pre existing pipeline through a safe route with already in place infrastructure

 

Horgan will not say no because he knows he will need the revenues and can look strong by putting up a solid front but kowtowing to the Feds and saying "sorry the Libs did it" my hands were tied.  it is a perfect escape clause for him.

 

Added; and I cannot stress this enough.  by the time the Alberta election rolls around Notley will have ground broken on Kinder Morgan as well as Keystone.  Regardless of whether or not she is the person who managed to actually get them done or not, she IS in charge when it happened.  Horgan would stand to have two of the most powerful economies in canada under the NDP banner.  There is no way he will try to screw that up.  Politicians are all the same.

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Just now, J.R. said:

 

We'll see. I'd like to think that's true but those folk always seem to find a loophole.

I don't know how. No one is going to allow a BC version of super pac's. It may get done through private ad's, but the unions have the $$ for that too so we might see an endless annoying ad war. 

 

This was one of the biggies for me, we must get rid of the large cash involvement. What I would prefer to see is no donations from anyone, period, and fund elections via a per vote subsidy. We pay anyway since donations are tax deductible, so why not just take it away all together?

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Just now, S'all Good Man said:

I don't know how. No one is going to allow a BC version of super pac's. It may get done through private ad's, but the unions have the $$ for that too so we might see an endless annoying ad war. 

 

This was one of the biggies for me, we must get rid of the large cash involvement. What I would prefer to see is no donations from anyone, period, and fund elections via a per vote subsidy. We pay anyway since donations are tax deductible, so why not just take it away all together?

I'll be skeptical until I see it really work. Crossing fingers your right though.

 

Unfortunately 'large cash involvement', government and those who stand to profit from it will always be tied together until there's no such thing as money.

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6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Weaver stands to gain:

  • Proportional representation
  • Party status
  • A Ban on union/corporate money
  • Foreign ownership taxes
  • 4 years of visible power

Not to take away from your other points but that's a nice looking list ::D

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17 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

I agree.  Too much money and jobs on the line for it to be cancelled.  

The plan going forward would mean a severe blow to the Greens (kingmaker, but unable to do something "Green").

Not sure about the effect on the BC NDP.  

BC Hydro obviously thought ahead and insisted that every contractor be a union shop.

 

So that's thousands of high paying, union jobs that Horgan would be axing. So ya....

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16 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Already posted what I figure will happen.

 

The Greens/NDP will likely get some other Green concession from the feds as counterbalance and the project will likely go through.

 

Personally I wish we'd refine it in Canada but that ship has sadly, likely sailed.

There's a pretty good site in Port Moody that has great ocean access! Why clean up the site when you can just build another refinery on it!

 

Bring back the giant candle!

 

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2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Not to take away from your other points but that's a nice looking list ::D

sure but.... 

 

proportional is going to a referendum, it may go down. 

 

party status is great but its just 3 seats and he may have lost support with his decision, we'll see. it doesn't really do anything appreciable for the province, he's not going to be hurling pointed questions at his new partner. 

 

there's no indication that foreign ownership taxes will go up in a significant way, the NDP didn't agree to a 30% tax like Weaver wanted e.g., and despite the NDPs stance I'm pretty sure they don't want to be the party that killed home equity in BC

 

visible power... not sure thats true either. He could have had that if he had gone vote by vote, now he has to support Horgan. That makes Horgan the boss. To me he's now in Horgans shadow and thats really too bad.

 

he may only come out of this with a ban on big money, and thats a good accomplishment, but he could have had more. 

 

imo he made a mistake not simply taking this vote by vote, but we'll see. I think he may have given away a great deal. 

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13 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

I don't know how. No one is going to allow a BC version of super pac's. It may get done through private ad's, but the unions have the $$ for that too so we might see an endless annoying ad war. 

 

This was one of the biggies for me, we must get rid of the large cash involvement. What I would prefer to see is no donations from anyone, period, and fund elections via a per vote subsidy. We pay anyway since donations are tax deductible, so why not just take it away all together?

 

10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I'll be skeptical until I see it really work. Crossing fingers your right though.

 

Unfortunately 'large cash involvement', government and those who stand to profit from it will always be tied together until there's no such thing as money.

 

I also recall how Tides Canada injected like $1 million or something to help Gregor Robertson get elected the first go around.

 

It's not just super wealthy right-of-centre people.... it's across all political spectrum.  

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6 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

BC Hydro obviously thought ahead and insisted that every contractor be a union shop.

 

So that's thousands of high paying, union jobs that Horgan would be axing. So ya....

for all the bluster over site c we get todays announcement  :lol: if it was so bad they would be stopping it, not studying it just long enough to say that too much cash has been sunk in it and it has to go ahead.

 

Like I was saying above, its this kind of compromise with the NDP that may have lost Weaver some support. 

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3 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

I also recall how Tides Canada injected like $1 million or something to help Gregor Robertson get elected the first go around.

 

It's not just super wealthy right-of-centre people.... it's across all political spectrum.  

yah all of this needs to go imo. There's just too much of an expectation of payback on all sides. 

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9 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

sure but.... 

 

proportional is going to a referendum, it may go down. 

 

party status is great but its just 3 seats and he may have lost support with his decision, we'll see. it doesn't really do anything appreciable for the province, he's not going to be hurling pointed questions at his new partner. 

 

there's no indication that foreign ownership taxes will go up in a significant way, the NDP didn't agree to a 30% tax like Weaver wanted e.g., and despite the NDPs stance I'm pretty sure they don't want to be the party that killed home equity in BC

 

visible power... not sure thats true either. He could have had that if he had gone vote by vote, now he has to support Horgan. That makes Horgan the boss. To me he's now in Horgans shadow and thats really too bad.

 

he may only come out of this with a ban on big money, and thats a good accomplishment, but he could have had more. 

 

imo he made a mistake not simply taking this vote by vote, but we'll see. I think he may have given away a great deal. 

Yeah the referendum thing sucks. On one hand, people should get a choice and say in the matter. On the other, most are poorly informed on it and far too easily influenced by the tons of ads and media I'm sure we'll see decrying it.

 

Party status can't hurt them.

 

Politics is always compromise. An increase is an increase.

 

The Green's have only agreed to vote with the NDP on confidence motions. Anything else they're free to vote as they please. Have to give to get.

 

You and I agree that being in the shadow of the NDP could hurt long term. Hopefully they have a plan to stay ahead of that.

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11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Yeah the referendum thing sucks. On one hand, people should get a choice and say in the matter. On the other, most are poorly informed on it and far too easily influenced by the tons of ads and media I'm sure we'll see decrying it.

 

Party status can't hurt them.

 

Politics is always compromise. An increase is an increase.

 

The Green's have only agreed to vote with the NDP on confidence motions. Anything else they're free to vote as they please. Have to give to get.

 

You and I agree that being in the shadow of the NDP could hurt long term. Hopefully they have a plan to stay ahead of that.

Weaver must have got some major blowback from his base on supporting Clark through 1 budget... but then I wonder how many people (like me) switched from Lib to Green this time? If he's just going to partner with the NDP I won't do it again in all likelihood, whats the point? I'm still surprised he didn't try to go it alone. Ah well. 

 

I'm hoping that they can work out a plan with the City of Vancouver on a housing strategy that includes a range of welfare-rated, sub-market and market value homes that are more affordable. If its just a bit more tax from offshore guys that would be disappointing. 

 

I wonder if Clark is taking her approach to try to bank on people being upset with the merger and somehow hope that translates in to a new election? Can't see it but who knows, there must be some real desperation over on that side. 

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Full agreement posted on NDP's site with the Green party:

 

https://www.bcndp.ca/latest/its-time-new-kind-government-british-columbia

 

John Horgan, Leader, BC's New Democrats | May 30, 2017

It's time for a new kind of government in British Columbia.

 
weaverhorgan_signing_feature.jpg

Yesterday, I joined my colleague Dr. Andrew Weaver of the BC Green Party to announce that we'd reached an agreement for our parties to work together.

It's the first step towards forming a new minority government - and it's a pretty big one, too.

The voters of British Columbia told us a lot of things on May 9 about the type of government they wanted to see, and one thing was crystal clear: They wanted change.

Now, in the first agreement of its kind in BC government history, our party and the BC Green Party are ready and willing to make that happen.

This four-year agreement gives BC voters the stable and secure government they want, and allows both of our parties to focus on the things we promised in our campaign - making life more affordable for all British Columbians, improving the services we all count on, making sure the economy works for everybody, and fixing our broken electoral system.

To everyone who has emailed, tweeted, called, messaged or signed a petition in the last few weeks to tell us about the kind of government they want to see: please know that we've heard you loud and clear.

This deal is happening because of you. And we want you to be a big part of it.

As BC NDP and BC Green caucus members sign the agreement today at the legislature, we're inviting all British Columbians to add their own signatures in support.

If you’re ready to be part of a new way of doing politics in our great province, please join us and add your signature in support of this agreement.

Let’s do this, British Columbia. Together.

Read the full text of our agreement below:

 

(the document is in SCRIBD - go to web page to view)

 

 

Synopsis:

 

  1. Proportional Representation + Electoral Finance Reform; plus Lobbying Reform.
  2. Increases to Carbon Tax
  3. Reassessing the Site C dam for its economic viability.
  4. $15 minimum wage.
  5. Increased infrastructure spending.
  6. Increased education spending, and more work experience programs.
  7. An "emerging economic task force" to address changes to business in the next 10-25 years (I'm guessing automation?)
  8. Innovation Commission to support innovative technologies.
  9. Environmental stuff. Environment is good m'kay.
  10. More infrastructure spending; increased healthcare and cheaper drugs.
  11. Better senior care.
  12. Mental health spending increase.
  13. Education spending increases.
  14. Province-wide Basic Income trial (yep)
  15. Elminating MSP premiums.
  16. Housing 
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57 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Full agreement posted on NDP's site with the Green party:

 

https://www.bcndp.ca/latest/its-time-new-kind-government-british-columbia

 

John Horgan, Leader, BC's New Democrats | May 30, 2017

It's time for a new kind of government in British Columbia.

 
weaverhorgan_signing_feature.jpg

Yesterday, I joined my colleague Dr. Andrew Weaver of the BC Green Party to announce that we'd reached an agreement for our parties to work together.

It's the first step towards forming a new minority government - and it's a pretty big one, too.

The voters of British Columbia told us a lot of things on May 9 about the type of government they wanted to see, and one thing was crystal clear: They wanted change.

Now, in the first agreement of its kind in BC government history, our party and the BC Green Party are ready and willing to make that happen.

This four-year agreement gives BC voters the stable and secure government they want, and allows both of our parties to focus on the things we promised in our campaign - making life more affordable for all British Columbians, improving the services we all count on, making sure the economy works for everybody, and fixing our broken electoral system.

To everyone who has emailed, tweeted, called, messaged or signed a petition in the last few weeks to tell us about the kind of government they want to see: please know that we've heard you loud and clear.

This deal is happening because of you. And we want you to be a big part of it.

As BC NDP and BC Green caucus members sign the agreement today at the legislature, we're inviting all British Columbians to add their own signatures in support.

If you’re ready to be part of a new way of doing politics in our great province, please join us and add your signature in support of this agreement.

Let’s do this, British Columbia. Together.

Read the full text of our agreement below:

 

(the document is in SCRIBD - go to web page to view)

 

 

Synopsis:

 

  1. Proportional Representation + Electoral Finance Reform; plus Lobbying Reform.
  2. Increases to Carbon Tax
  3. Reassessing the Site C dam for its economic viability.
  4. $15 minimum wage.
  5. Increased infrastructure spending.
  6. Increased education spending, and more work experience programs.
  7. An "emerging economic task force" to address changes to business in the next 10-25 years (I'm guessing automation?)
  8. Innovation Commission to support innovative technologies.
  9. Environmental stuff. Environment is good m'kay.
  10. More infrastructure spending; increased healthcare and cheaper drugs.
  11. Better senior care.
  12. Mental health spending increase.
  13. Education spending increases.
  14. Province-wide Basic Income trial (yep)
  15. Elminating MSP premiums.
  16. Housing 

Wow that spells massive defecit. Maybe pick your top 3.:lol:

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