Alflives Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 minute ago, TimberWolf said: Who cares? Even if he isn't the worst or top five worst, even if we could make a case that he was in the middle, he's not one of the best on any list. I want the best, anything else is screwing around.. Isn't the point of much of this thread that JB could be considered one of the best in a couple more seasons though, once his picks/trades (for young guys) begins to develop? He has collected a lot of young assets, and time will show how good they are, as a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Of course he was voted last, he's with the Canucks. A lot of people dislike the Canucks, even some so-called Canucks fans. I don't give any weight to this kind of stuff. I like JB and think he's done a great job in the 3 years he's been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilin96 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The person to really take the blunt of the blame for the Canucks current failure should be Mike Gillis. Terrible drafting between 2008-2012 basically screwed us all. The only 2 players that he drafted that are on the current roster and having impacts are Bo Horvat and Ben Hutton out of 6 Drafts (not to mention 1st round draft busts such as Patrick White, Jordan Schroeder) !!!! I know we all love Bo Horvat, but that was a huge risk as at the time we don't know how Bo would turn out as a player and if it wasn't for his willingness to keep improving he won't be at where he is today. And to think that he was willing to trade Schneider for just one draft pick, that was a huge gamble that was thankfully paid off cuz of Bo. Gillis should of taken the Oilers offer of Oilers 1st (which was the 7th pick and we could still draft Horvat with that pick) + Oscar Kelfbom (he would be a good addition to the Canucks blueline) and a 2nd round pick. I understand at the time, Gillis doesn't want to trade with a divisional rival but simply not getting anything more out of Schneider was a huge risk that thankfully paid off (imagine if we picked Nichuskinin at #9 instead of Bo and that would of been downhill all the way). Ben Hutton was like one pick out of I don't know how many picks that actually worked out for him, again, it seems like this pick is more luck then his ability to draft. On top of all that, he hand out terrible NTC to contracts for guys like Chris Higgins and Jannik Hansen we loved those 2 players and they are hard workers, but they are both expendable parts and should of never be given a NTC (there was at one point that almost every single player on the Canucks has a NTC of some sort). Then these trades he made were absolutely terrible. Trading away Grabner, Bernier and a 1st for Keith Ballard, a guy who basically spends half the season in AV's dog house -- the press box before his eventual buy-out. Trading away Samuelsson for Booth, which I thought Samuelsson would of helped the 2011-2012 team more and his contract would of been up by the end of the 2012 season and we could of brought in another top-6 player through UFA in the summer, but trading for Booth and his terrible contract was like a nail in the coffin for us to have any chance of contending. Both Booth and Ballard contract took up 9 millions of our cap, and just imagine if we had 9 millions spent on players that could actually do stuffs. By the time Jim Benning took over, he inherited a team with an aging roster with very little blue chip prospects among the prospect pools. NTC contracts in Higgins, Hansen, Garrison that is difficult to be moved. JB was able to make the moves necessary in his 1st season here to give this core one final chance for the cup and we made the playoffs in 2015 but it shows that we lack speed and grit to compete for the playoffs and JB finally decided to slowly turn over the roster in the summer of 2015. He tried to trade Higgins in the summer of 2015 but apparently there were no takers. Trading away Kevin Bieksa for a 2nd round pick was a signal of a rebuild. Over his 3 years here, JB was able to slowly get rid-off these NTC contracts that Gillis handed out to everybody (Garrison, Hansen and Higgins are all no longer with the organisation) and the team has gotten younger. Since we have no impactful players from 2007-2011 draft classes, JB had to trade for some players within that age group to fill up roster spots (Sutter, Baertchi, Granlund, Vey, Etem, Pedan etc.), not all have them had worked out but it was some moves that has to be made since the owner's goal was to make the playoffs the previous 2 seasons, JB has to do what he could to be standing on the boundary line between rebuilding and making the playoffs. I am beyond relief that the owners have finally committed to a rebuild (hence this trade deadline we were able to pick up both Goldobin and Dahlen in the trade deadline). There is no way the core led by the Twins and Edler could compete for another cup. I still hope that the Twins could still be effective players by the time this team can contend again (lead by a new core), and wins the cup in their last season, but this is highly unlikely. Since JB has been given the greenlight from the ownership for a rebuild, I believe he can now finally focus on doing one thing - building this team towards the future. Sure not all of Jim Benning's moves has been wins (for example, the 2nd for Vey trade, Forsling for Glendenning trade, signing Louis Eriksson) but all GMs in the league make mistakes like that. Even the Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman made the mistake of giving Brian Bickell that massive contract which tied his hands that he couldn't have enough money to resign Brandon Saad and since they have to move out Bickell's contract, they have to give up Teuvo Teravainen in order to make it happen. The bottom line is, all GMs will make mistakes, and the smart ones will be able to find a way to recover from them. Since a lot of the draft picks and young players he acquired are still developing, it is still too early to evaluate him as a GM. Labeling a guy as the worst GM in the league because of the mistakes made by his predecessors are not fair. At the end of the day, he has really given this team a chance to rebuild properly and that is something I don't believe Mike Gillis would of been able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: Wow, 31st? Well, I guess when you look at things from afar, he inherited a team that seemed like a perennial playoff contender with one bad season, and then finished in the bottom three in the NHL two out of three years... As for his poor rating for his drafting...well, I can't say I'm surprised. He has had two top-six picks in his brief tenure, both of whom have already been overshadowed by players picked afterward that he passed on. I have hope for the guys he picked, but it's no shocker that people will look at what has already been accomplished by players he didn't choose with his recent high picks. He inherited an over the hill team on a steep and fast decline, with contract and no trade problems and a barren prospect cupboard . .... Lol that's what he inherited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Trash graph, trash rankings w/ bizarre weightings... Only thing i can take from this garbage is an obvious attempt to trash the Canucks once again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Bagues Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: If it wasn't already obvious, read the "about" -- they are anal-itix expertz. It's been nice not hearing too much about corsi and all that junk in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_19 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Although we may squabble whether he should be ranked dead last, at least we can all generally agree he's in the bottom 1/4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, TimberWolf said: Who cares? Even if he isn't the worst or top five worst, even if we could make a case that he was in the middle, he's not one of the best on any list. I want the best, anything else is screwing around.. My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, TimberWolf said: Who cares? Even if he isn't the worst or top five worst, even if we could make a case that he was in the middle, he's not one of the best on any list. I want the best, anything else is screwing around.. You can't expect someone to be the best when they've never been a GM before. While he may not be the best, I believe he was best suited for the job at the time of his hiring, when comparing to other options that were available. But like anyone in any other position, you need time to grow and I have no doubt that he's learning from his experiences, both positive and negative. Sure, it would be nice if we had 1st dibs on the best GM money could buy, but that's just not the case. Regardless, I think JB is a good GM for us and should only get better with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKnight Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 How is Treleving a middle tier GM in their eyes? That guy is possibly the worst GM in the league. Nill signs two low tier goalies to 10 mill in cap and is a top 5 GM LMAO. Lets face it Benning inherited a disaster of a future here and hasnt done so bad . Im actually somewhat excited for the future. I think the Sven and Granny deals were steals. The Guddy deal is going to be more solid than people think. Eriksson has been really bad, but his cap hit at the time was justified. Benning had a fantastic TDL. It finally looks as if ownership is taking the leash off and letting the decisions solely be made my management. I wouldnt say Benning has done a great job, but hes not the worst GM in the league. Btw Benning draft Cody Glass!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billabong Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, King Heffy said: Can fully admit I had second thoughts until the most recent deadline. I liked Tkachuck but had the top three defensemen after him in a tie for 5. Ya if they could do it over they probably go with tkachuk. His gritty physical game is something we have very little of. But with out juolevi we have no D coming through the pipe lines. So no one can say the Canucks made the wrong choice persay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 47 minutes ago, ruilin96 said: The person to really take the blunt of the blame for the Canucks current failure should be Mike Gillis. .................. Well thought out post. I would say though that Benning at the very least, has not lived up to expectations. He may not be the worst, and he may have had his hands tied with NTC from Gillis, but some of the moves he has made are head-scratching. The most glaring is the Eriksson signing. He started off with being handed two #1 draft picks. A nice way to start off with a bang. Those two should by now be integrated into our team and doing well. After all it was drafting that was supposed to be his strong point. Instead Jared McCann was traded away (for what some would describe an over-rated defenseman). McCann scored just one goal in 29 games for the Panthers and then sent down to the minors. I would say that Florida is quite disappointed with that trade. The other pick Virtanen is still a question mark, and if he does get a job with the Canucks, it may not even be a top 6 forward. Its true that every GM makes mistakes, but the fact is for years, decades, the Canucks have a dismal record for the most part in drafting. (I still cannot fathom why Delorme seems to have a life long tenure with the team). And the hiring of a supposedly drafting expert as GM raised expectations mightily. He has drafted well after that for the most part. Including Demko and Tryamkin from that same draft. I agree that its still a little early to judge him, but the fact that the team has gotten steadily worse under his tenure, is somewhat troubling, especially considering that we were not officially in a rebuild...we were competing for the playoffs in his mind. And I can't blame the owners. Its JBs team. I don't know about the worst, but JB is not among the top GM talent if you weigh all his moves. He should have begun the rebuild as soon as he arrived. Get the pain over with sooner rather than later. And if it was ownership that squeezed him into pretending we were a Cup contender for those first two and half years then its still on Benning for not standing up to ownership IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Where's the companion piece about how crappy we are as a fan base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I hate the media. Can't wait till JB brings a cup here and proves them wrong They're probably trashing him hoping we fire him and his team gets him. JB should be giving 10-15 but in 3-4 years time he could become a top 5 once HIS guys develop and contribute. Those guys being... Granlund Baertschi Gudbranson Dahlen Goldobin Juolevi Virtanen Demko Tryamkin? Boeser Gaudette Stecher Stukel Lockwood Brisebois And that's not even all of them I may overhyped him for his moves but I base my views on how I see the team shaping up in 2-4 years not how the team is playing now. To give JB a last place finish is just stupid and 100% exploits their hate for the Canucks. I get most teams feel like the league is against them when they lose and it is mostly bs. But the hate for the Canucks through the media and nhl is so blatant it really bugs me. Oh well it'll just make our cup win that much sweeter knowing what we had to overcome to get it!! GO CANUCKS GO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, ruilin96 said: The person to really take the blunt of the blame for the Canucks current failure should be Mike Gillis. Terrible drafting between 2008-2012 basically screwed us all. The only 2 players that he drafted that are on the current roster and having impacts are Bo Horvat and Ben Hutton out of 6 Drafts (not to mention 1st round draft busts such as Patrick White, Jordan Schroeder) !!!! I know we all love Bo Horvat, but that was a huge risk as at the time we don't know how Bo would turn out as a player and if it wasn't for his willingness to keep improving he won't be at where he is today. And to think that he was willing to trade Schneider for just one draft pick, that was a huge gamble that was thankfully paid off cuz of Bo. Gillis should of taken the Oilers offer of Oilers 1st (which was the 7th pick and we could still draft Horvat with that pick) + Oscar Kelfbom (he would be a good addition to the Canucks blueline) and a 2nd round pick. I understand at the time, Gillis doesn't want to trade with a divisional rival but simply not getting anything more out of Schneider was a huge risk that thankfully paid off (imagine if we picked Nichuskinin at #9 instead of Bo and that would of been downhill all the way). Ben Hutton was like one pick out of I don't know how many picks that actually worked out for him, again, it seems like this pick is more luck then his ability to draft. On top of all that, he hand out terrible NTC to contracts for guys like Chris Higgins and Jannik Hansen we loved those 2 players and they are hard workers, but they are both expendable parts and should of never be given a NTC (there was at one point that almost every single player on the Canucks has a NTC of some sort). Then these trades he made were absolutely terrible. Trading away Grabner, Bernier and a 1st for Keith Ballard, a guy who basically spends half the season in AV's dog house -- the press box before his eventual buy-out. Trading away Samuelsson for Booth, which I thought Samuelsson would of helped the 2011-2012 team more and his contract would of been up by the end of the 2012 season and we could of brought in another top-6 player through UFA in the summer, but trading for Booth and his terrible contract was like a nail in the coffin for us to have any chance of contending. Both Booth and Ballard contract took up 9 millions of our cap, and just imagine if we had 9 millions spent on players that could actually do stuffs. By the time Jim Benning took over, he inherited a team with an aging roster with very little blue chip prospects among the prospect pools. NTC contracts in Higgins, Hansen, Garrison that is difficult to be moved. JB was able to make the moves necessary in his 1st season here to give this core one final chance for the cup and we made the playoffs in 2015 but it shows that we lack speed and grit to compete for the playoffs and JB finally decided to slowly turn over the roster in the summer of 2015. He tried to trade Higgins in the summer of 2015 but apparently there were no takers. Trading away Kevin Bieksa for a 2nd round pick was a signal of a rebuild. Over his 3 years here, JB was able to slowly get rid-off these NTC contracts that Gillis handed out to everybody (Garrison, Hansen and Higgins are all no longer with the organisation) and the team has gotten younger. Since we have no impactful players from 2007-2011 draft classes, JB had to trade for some players within that age group to fill up roster spots (Sutter, Baertchi, Granlund, Vey, Etem, Pedan etc.), not all have them had worked out but it was some moves that has to be made since the owner's goal was to make the playoffs the previous 2 seasons, JB has to do what he could to be standing on the boundary line between rebuilding and making the playoffs. I am beyond relief that the owners have finally committed to a rebuild (hence this trade deadline we were able to pick up both Goldobin and Dahlen in the trade deadline). There is no way the core led by the Twins and Edler could compete for another cup. I still hope that the Twins could still be effective players by the time this team can contend again (lead by a new core), and wins the cup in their last season, but this is highly unlikely. Since JB has been given the greenlight from the ownership for a rebuild, I believe he can now finally focus on doing one thing - building this team towards the future. Sure not all of Jim Benning's moves has been wins (for example, the 2nd for Vey trade, Forsling for Glendenning trade, signing Louis Eriksson) but all GMs in the league make mistakes like that. Even the Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman made the mistake of giving Brian Bickell that massive contract which tied his hands that he couldn't have enough money to resign Brandon Saad and since they have to move out Bickell's contract, they have to give up Teuvo Teravainen in order to make it happen. The bottom line is, all GMs will make mistakes, and the smart ones will be able to find a way to recover from them. Since a lot of the draft picks and young players he acquired are still developing, it is still too early to evaluate him as a GM. Labeling a guy as the worst GM in the league because of the mistakes made by his predecessors are not fair. At the end of the day, he has really given this team a chance to rebuild properly and that is something I don't believe Mike Gillis would of been able to do. Is that you Moj? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieBush Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 How does mcphee have a grade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono2009 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 who makes this crap up? so after reading this are we starting the "fire benning" threads up again? give me a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, ruilin96 said: The person to really take the blunt of the blame for the Canucks current failure should be Mike Gillis. Terrible drafting between 2008-2012 basically screwed us all. The only 2 players that he drafted that are on the current roster and having impacts are Bo Horvat and Ben Hutton out of 6 Drafts (not to mention 1st round draft busts such as Patrick White, Jordan Schroeder) !!!! I know we all love Bo Horvat, but that was a huge risk as at the time we don't know how Bo would turn out as a player and if it wasn't for his willingness to keep improving he won't be at where he is today. And to think that he was willing to trade Schneider for just one draft pick, that was a huge gamble that was thankfully paid off cuz of Bo. Gillis should of taken the Oilers offer of Oilers 1st (which was the 7th pick and we could still draft Horvat with that pick) + Oscar Kelfbom (he would be a good addition to the Canucks blueline) and a 2nd round pick. I understand at the time, Gillis doesn't want to trade with a divisional rival but simply not getting anything more out of Schneider was a huge risk that thankfully paid off (imagine if we picked Nichuskinin at #9 instead of Bo and that would of been downhill all the way). Ben Hutton was like one pick out of I don't know how many picks that actually worked out for him, again, it seems like this pick is more luck then his ability to draft. On top of all that, he hand out terrible NTC to contracts for guys like Chris Higgins and Jannik Hansen we loved those 2 players and they are hard workers, but they are both expendable parts and should of never be given a NTC (there was at one point that almost every single player on the Canucks has a NTC of some sort). Then these trades he made were absolutely terrible. Trading away Grabner, Bernier and a 1st for Keith Ballard, a guy who basically spends half the season in AV's dog house -- the press box before his eventual buy-out. Trading away Samuelsson for Booth, which I thought Samuelsson would of helped the 2011-2012 team more and his contract would of been up by the end of the 2012 season and we could of brought in another top-6 player through UFA in the summer, but trading for Booth and his terrible contract was like a nail in the coffin for us to have any chance of contending. Both Booth and Ballard contract took up 9 millions of our cap, and just imagine if we had 9 millions spent on players that could actually do stuffs. By the time Jim Benning took over, he inherited a team with an aging roster with very little blue chip prospects among the prospect pools. NTC contracts in Higgins, Hansen, Garrison that is difficult to be moved. JB was able to make the moves necessary in his 1st season here to give this core one final chance for the cup and we made the playoffs in 2015 but it shows that we lack speed and grit to compete for the playoffs and JB finally decided to slowly turn over the roster in the summer of 2015. He tried to trade Higgins in the summer of 2015 but apparently there were no takers. Trading away Kevin Bieksa for a 2nd round pick was a signal of a rebuild. Over his 3 years here, JB was able to slowly get rid-off these NTC contracts that Gillis handed out to everybody (Garrison, Hansen and Higgins are all no longer with the organisation) and the team has gotten younger. Since we have no impactful players from 2007-2011 draft classes, JB had to trade for some players within that age group to fill up roster spots (Sutter, Baertchi, Granlund, Vey, Etem, Pedan etc.), not all have them had worked out but it was some moves that has to be made since the owner's goal was to make the playoffs the previous 2 seasons, JB has to do what he could to be standing on the boundary line between rebuilding and making the playoffs. I am beyond relief that the owners have finally committed to a rebuild (hence this trade deadline we were able to pick up both Goldobin and Dahlen in the trade deadline). There is no way the core led by the Twins and Edler could compete for another cup. I still hope that the Twins could still be effective players by the time this team can contend again (lead by a new core), and wins the cup in their last season, but this is highly unlikely. Since JB has been given the greenlight from the ownership for a rebuild, I believe he can now finally focus on doing one thing - building this team towards the future. Sure not all of Jim Benning's moves has been wins (for example, the 2nd for Vey trade, Forsling for Glendenning trade, signing Louis Eriksson) but all GMs in the league make mistakes like that. Even the Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman made the mistake of giving Brian Bickell that massive contract which tied his hands that he couldn't have enough money to resign Brandon Saad and since they have to move out Bickell's contract, they have to give up Teuvo Teravainen in order to make it happen. The bottom line is, all GMs will make mistakes, and the smart ones will be able to find a way to recover from them. Since a lot of the draft picks and young players he acquired are still developing, it is still too early to evaluate him as a GM. Labeling a guy as the worst GM in the league because of the mistakes made by his predecessors are not fair. At the end of the day, he has really given this team a chance to rebuild properly and that is something I don't believe Mike Gillis would of been able to do. I disagree. Gillis did everything a GM could do to get Vancouver their first Stanley cup. Too much to disagree with from your post but to say he should of taken the Edmonton deal is asinine. First off Klefbom was never offered, it was the 7th, a 2nd rounder and Mancirin. Second, if Gillis could've of drafted Horvat regardless shows just how thought out that Schneider/ NJ trade was. He didn't want to offload Schneider to Edmonton and rightfully so, plus Horvat was his guy and he was still available so the Edmonton pick wasn't needed. He would've never even considered drafting Nichuskin so not sure why you think he got lucky in picking Horvat over him. You say that trade was a risk but that risk paid off and now this regime is building the Canucks around that very trade. So how can you fault Gillis for that? He brought in undrafted free agent Chris Tanev who currently is our best defender and arguably the player with the greatest trade value. The NTC's were a trade off for signing players to discounts, something every contender needs to do. No one questioned Burrows 4y/$8mil contract, that behind Tavares was the probably the most efficient contract in the NHL. The Luongo deal was pure genius, so much so that it made Bettman seething mad and vindictive and changed the rules of the game. You fault Gillis for his trades but then write all GM's make mistakes. The rest is all hindsight. I don't think Benning is doing a poor job at all but no one can blame Gillis for this predicament. If you're going to blame someone from the previous regime blame that flake that quit on this team and demanded to be traded. He wore number one. 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ilduce39 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I posted most of this under Loui Eriksson's player thread but the Sutter/Eriksson contracts aren't that bad. (Assuming a decent Loui bounce back) In the short term we lack players in that late 20s-early 30s age range to be the veteran stabilizing presence when the Sedins retire. Sutter soaks up hard matchups and Loui is a former captain, scorer, good possession stats and 2-way player. I won't get into too much of this - but I think having these guys has a ton of value developmentally for our younger players. Sutter's contract ends in 20-21 when he's 32. The last 2 years he only a 15 team no trade. Loui's contract ends in 21-22 when he's 36. The last 2 years he only has a 15 team no trade. Considering Burrows brought in a great prospect at 35 with a 4.5 mil cap hit and was extended, there's hope to move these two. Hansen himself said the extra year on his contract made him very open at the TDL as you have no idea who wants you if there's an extra year attached. Thanks to the Luongo deal we can only retain salary on one guy at a time, but Sutter and Loui's contracts are staggered so there's opportunity to retain cash one after another if Jim wants to. The timeline is also great. Right now I think we need some vets who can play alongside the kids. 3-4 years from now, though, we should realistically be ready to move on from these two. Not like we have a ton of forward prospects knocking at the door today. The 2-year window of 15 team NTCs and ability to retain some salary should be easy money for Jim to get some great value for these two - at a time we should be on the upswing and no longer nabbing top draft picks. It's a huge difference from being handcuffed by full NTCs in my opinion and just kinda shows how some of Jim's veteran signings are assets both developmentally for young players today and should help bolster the pool in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Looks like the Hero-Charts kidz got bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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