[discussion] can we stop trying to give Tanev away for cheap?

[JM_]

I've seen a lot of Tanev proposals lately that are almost trying to give away one of the (if not the) top shot suppression D men in the league. The last stats I saw on this were from 2015 (link below) when he was by far the best shot suppression D, and suppressed goals by 0.3 goals per game more than the league average, and he's in his prime now. You don't just toss that away for a mid-1st round pick in a weak draft. 

 

If we can't get a high quality top 6 prospect (i.e. 1 C potential) and a pick before the draft, then there's no reason whatsoever to just give him away for a low 1st round pick this draft, that would be an utter waste of his value.

 

If Jim can't get a potential 1C prospect or an established C before June, then the next best window is at the TDL before the playoffs when contending teams tend to cough up a lot in the arms race leading up to the post-season. If Toronto looks to make the playoffs again e.g., my bet is there would be a lot of pressure in hogtown to pick up Tanev for a longer playoff run and we'd likely get a solid prospect and 1st rounder for him. 

 

For some reason many on CDC really under value this player - can someone explain that one to me? Please, discuss. 

 

 

http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2016/8/16/12481256/the-top-20-defensemen-in-the-nhl-right-now-for-real

 

"Chris Tanev is the best shutdown defenseman in the NHL. He's good at doing the defenseman things. His shot suppression prevents 0.3 goals per 60 RelTM compared to an average player. That's a f***ton. The next highest mark by a defenseman is Brian Campbell's 0.19. That's what us fancy math nerds call an "outlier". No one is in the same tier as Tanev when it comes to shot suppression."

[Ghostsof1915]

The proposals either want to give him away, or they ask the moon for him. If Edler performs at the World Championship, we should look at moving him. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

The proposals either want to give him away, or they ask the moon for him. If Edler performs at the World Championship, we should look at moving him. 

hey I'd rather aim high  I get the over valuing part, but not the under... just curious what the basis is for the low-balling. Its certainly not the actual stats. 

 

But Edler does make the most sense to try to move, he's still a top 4 in the league and has a very easy salary to manage in terms of a trade.

[Warhippy]

He's not cheap.  If he isn't returning a cannot miss grade A prospect and at minimum a late 1st or early 2nd or a high to mid range 1st and a solid prospect he stays.

 

That's all there is to it.

 

People on this forum are notoriously idiotic when it comes to proposals

 

Prospect B on any other team is worth multiple players, picks, prospects because he's on another team, had a good tournament, had a better year than last year, scored 1 nice goal in whatever league they're in.  As such is worth a player, pick and prospect

 

Player/Prospect A on the Canucks is lucky to get a late pick, b prospect future considerations because, rookie, played on bad team, didn't increase production to Desi Boy quality levels, doesn't have sick flow and is essentially worthless and a throw in

 

That's the CDC formula for trading for or with players with value.

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

He's not cheap.  If he isn't returning a cannot miss grade A prospect and at minimum a late 1st or early 2nd or a high to mid range 1st and a solid prospect he stays.

 

That's all there is to it.

 

People on this forum are notoriously idiotic when it comes to proposals

 

Prospect B on any other team is worth multiple players, picks, prospects because he's on another team, had a good tournament, had a better year than last year, scored 1 nice goal in whatever league they're in.  As such is worth a player, pick and prospect

 

Player/Prospect A on the Canucks is lucky to get a late pick, b prospect future considerations because, rookie, played on bad team, didn't increase production to Desi Boy quality levels, doesn't have sick flow and is essentially worthless and a throw in

 

That's the CDC formula for trading for or with players with value.

 

We already have decent picks for the 2017 draft. Pretty sure this will be the order (assuming CBJ gives us the Torts pick this season):

5

33

59 (Torts)

64

95 (we keep the 4th EDM gets our 5th since Larsen didn't get 0.3ppg)

no 5th or 6th

188

 

I just don't see how adding just a 16-31pick for Tanev in this draft is worth losing Tanev over. 

 

 

[higgyfan]

31 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

hey I'd rather aim high  I get the over valuing part, but not the under... just curious what the basis is for the low-balling. Its certainly not the actual stats. 

 

But Edler does make the most sense to try to move, he's still a top 4 in the league and has a very easy salary to manage in terms of a trade.

From what I've seen with fans of other teams, the main concern is his health.  He has never had an 82 game season and this last season was pretty bad.  I agree with Warhippy...if he can't get a +++ return, keep him.

 

I'd be interested in what Edler could get in return.  I think fans underrate him as well.

[Gaudette Celly]

I blame the furry troll.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, higgyfan said:

From what I've seen with fans of other teams, the main concern is his health.  He has never had an 82 game season and this last season was pretty bad.  I agree with Warhippy...if he can't get a +++ return, keep him.

 

I'd be interested in what Edler could get in return.  I think fans underrate him as well.

That could be, it could change a bit depending on who he's paired with on another team tho, he may not have to get crunched as much as he does here, e.g., if he was paired with Hedman e.g., vs Sbisa some nights. Edler is definitely the guy to try to move, if it wasn't for expansion it would be a lot easier. 

[higgyfan]

Just now, S'all Good Man said:

That could be, it could change a bit depending on who he's paired with on another team tho, he may not have to get crunched as much as he does here, e.g., if he was paired with Hedman e.g., vs Sbisa some nights. Edler is definitely the guy to try to move, if it wasn't for expansion it would be a lot easier. 

I also wonder how he'd do on a team that could clear the dzone quickly.  Let's face it, playing d on the current Nuck team is a dangerous job.

 

 

[jono2009]

54 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

The proposals either want to give him away, or they ask the moon for him. If Edler performs at the World Championship, we should look at moving him. 

It doesn't matter if Sweden wins and Edler has goals, points and a dominant performance. He still won't waive to go anywhere. He's stubborn and wants to stay. So frustrating!!

[JM_]

1 minute ago, jono2009 said:

It doesn't matter if Sweden wins and Edler has goals, points and a dominant performance. He still won't waive to go anywhere. He's stubborn and wants to stay. So frustrating!!

Well... i mean thats kind of nice isn't it that he loves the city? We'll see how things shake out post-exapanison draft, thats when i think we may see him moved, hopefully for another prospect like Goldy or Dahlen. 

[Rob_Zepp]

5 minutes ago, jono2009 said:

It doesn't matter if Sweden wins and Edler has goals, points and a dominant performance. He still won't waive to go anywhere. He's stubborn and wants to stay. So frustrating!!

Source?  You have spoken to him?   

 

Professional hockey is a business and that means he is a business man.   He likes Vancouver for the situation it creates for his family but if offered a situation that benefited his career and his family you are saying he would not consider it?   

[jono2009]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Well... i mean thats kind of nice isn't it that he loves the city? We'll see how things shake out post-exapanison draft, thats when i think we may see him moved, hopefully for another prospect like Goldy or Dahlen. 

He can love the city all he wants. He has played like crap for years and time for him to move on!

[-AJ-]

I see Tanev as a core veteran piece of our rebuilt d-core. He's not really a long-time vet yet, but he will be in a couple of years once we're ready to start winning again. I'm fine with keeping our entire d-core right now for next year, but wouldn't be devastated if Edler was traded for something decent. Tanev, we should keep.

[jono2009]

Just now, Rob_Zepp said:

Source?  You have spoken to him?   

 

Professional hockey is a business and that means he is a business man.   He likes Vancouver for the situation it creates for his family but if offered a situation that benefited his career and his family you are saying he would not consider it?   

Source? lol

 

Didn't you hear his one question he was asked at the end of the year? They basically said older players are moving on. The team is rebuilding. Do you really want to be park of that etc....

 

Plus we know even MG asked him to waive before his contract started to kick into the extension

[-AJ-]

Just now, Rob_Zepp said:

Source?  You have spoken to him?   

 

Professional hockey is a business and that means he is a business man.   He likes Vancouver for the situation it creates for his family but if offered a situation that benefited his career and his family you are saying he would not consider it?   

At the end of season conference, he made it pretty clear that he wants to stay in Vancouver.

 

[Rob_Zepp]

Just now, -AJ- said:

At the end of season conference, he made it pretty clear that he wants to stay in Vancouver.

 

Yup, but if offered a situation equal or better he would say no?  I didn't hear him being asked that and at a closing presser guys don't typically say "get me the hell out of here".    Point is, people keep beating up on the poor guy for liking the city they themselves live in.   That is a bit messed up.    At same time, realize it is a business and he seems to be a strong family guy and if a better family situation would come up, you don't think he would consider it?    Why not play Hansen or Burrows interviews when they would have said pretty much what Edler says here?    

[Rob_Zepp]

4 minutes ago, jono2009 said:

Source? lol

 

Didn't you hear his one question he was asked at the end of the year? They basically said older players are moving on. The team is rebuilding. Do you really want to be park of that etc....

 

Plus we know even MG asked him to waive before his contract started to kick into the extension

He gave a politically correct response.   He is being a smart business and family man but at end of day, don't think that he wouldn't do what is best for his career and family if a trade from Vancouver could achieve both.   

[-AJ-]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

 Why not play Hansen or Burrows interviews when they would have said pretty much what Edler says here?    

It's impossible to know for sure, but I somehow get the vibe that Edler is more keen on staying here for his own reasons. Burrows and Hansen (particularly Burrows) wanted to do the best thing for the team, even if that meant leaving. I'm not sure Edler is as selfless. Again, it's impossible to know for sure based on his short response.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

It's impossible to know for sure, but I somehow get the vibe that Edler is more keen on staying here for his own reasons. Burrows and Hansen (particularly Burrows) wanted to do the best thing for the team, even if that meant leaving. I'm not sure Edler is as selfless. Again, it's impossible to know for sure based on his short response.

given how the guy got ripped for days over looking at his cell phone (and we don't know why btw, it may have been a family thing) no kidding he's not going to say much.