Canadian Armed Forces Thread

[Gurn]

Given the amount of talk, on various threads, about the forces I thought I'd start this up.

Here is the Canadian Navy  as of today:

http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/fleet-units/frigates-home.page

The 12 Canadian-built Halifax-class multi-role patrol frigates are considered the backbone of the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN). The ships were originally designed for anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare, primarily in the open ocean environment.

The role of the Halifax-class has changed. Current and evolving maritime threats are faster, stealthier, more maneuverable, and shifting from the open ocean to the littoral (near-shore) environment. The littoral environment poses challenges to sensors and weapons systems due to higher traffic density and proximity to shore-based threats. In addition, ships now face asymmetrical threats, such as attacks from smaller, more maneuverable vessels that were not envisaged at the time of the ships’ design.

Innovations in procedures and tactics have enabled the frigates to operate effectively in the new threat environment, despite equipment limitations. However sensor and weapons enhancements are needed in order to enhance the ships’ ability to deal with these new threats into the future.

The Halifax-class ship’s homeports are Esquimalt, British Columbia, and Halifax, Nova Scotia.

The current Halifax-class ships are:

• HMCS Halifax (330)
• HMCS Vancouver (331)
• HMCS Ville de Québec (332)
• HMCS Toronto (333)
• HMCS Regina (334)
• HMCS Calgary (335)
• HMCS Montreal (336)
• HMCS Fredericton (337)
• HMCS Winnipeg (338)
• HMCS Charlottetown (339)
• HMCS St John's (340)
• HMCS Ottawa (341)

Halifax-Class Modernization (HCM)

The Halifax-class Modernization/Frigate Life Extension (HCM/FELEX) project manages both the modernization of the combat systems and a planned mid-life ship refit program to ensure the frigates remain effective throughout their service life. This work encompasses modernization of the ships’ platform, including ships’ systems upgrades, acquisition and installation of new capabilities, such as enhanced radar, new electronic warfare system, upgraded communications and missiles integrated into a new Combat Management System.

The first modernized Halifax-class frigates were delivered in late 2014, with the last ship scheduled for delivery in spring 2018.

Project breakdown

The Halifax-class Modernization/Frigate Life Extension project and other separately-funded projects within the Halifax-class Modernization program are bringing enhanced capabilities to the ships, which are required to meet the new threats and changing operating environments.

These include:

Halifax-class Modernization/Frigate Life Extension

• A new Combat Management System;
• New radar suite;
• IFF Mode S/5 – Interrogator Friend or Foe Mode S/5;
• Internal communications system upgrade;
• Harpoon Missile system upgrade (surface to surface); and
• Electronic warfare system upgrade;

Other HCM projects

• Long-range infrared search and track system (SIRIUS);
• Modification to the BOFORS 57mm Naval Gun;
• Replacement of the Shield II Missile Decoy Countermeasures System;
• Replacement of the Integrated Machinery Control System; and
• Replacement of the Navigation Radars.

 

Here is a link to the technical/weapons lists of the frigates

http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/fleet-units/frigates-tech.page

 

"

Halifax class frigates carry a formidable array of weapons and sensor systems including 8 Harpoon long-range, surface-to-surface missiles, 16 Sea Sparrow surface-to-air missiles, a Bofors 57mm rapid-fire gun, a 20mm Phalanx anti-missile close-in-weapons-system (CIWS), 8 x 12.7mm heavy machine guns and 24 anti-submarine homing torpedoes.

In addition, the ships can defend themselves using infrared suppression, Shield decoys, chaff, flares, a towed acoustic decoy, and radar and sonar jamming devices. The ship's torpedo-carrying helicopter significantly extends its range of operational effectiveness.

 

link for details on the 12 Kingston class ships

http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/fleet-units/mcdv-home.page

"

The Kingston-class Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs) are multi-role minor war vessels with a primary mission of coastal surveillance and patrol including general naval operations and exercises, search and rescue, law enforcement, resource protection and fisheries patrols.

Launched between 1995 and 1998, these ships are very flexible. Several types of mission specific payloads can be added to allow for rapid role change from one mission type to another such as a mechanical minesweeping system, a route survey system, and a bottom object inspection vehicle.

The 12 Kingston-class MCDVs are crewed primarily by Naval Reservists and are divided equally between both coasts.

Specifications:

Displacement: 970 tonnes (full load)

Length: 55.3 metres

Beam: 11.3 metres

Draught: 3.4 metres

Engine: Diesel-electric: Two Jeumont DC electric motors each drive a Lips azimuthing thruster with a five bladed propeller, powered by four 600V AC alternators driven by Wartsila SCAM V12 Diesels.

 

The Kingston-class ship’s homeports are Esquimalt, British Columbia, and Halifax, Nova Scotia.

The current Kingston-class ships are:

• HMCS Kingston          (700)
• HMCS Glace Bay        (701)
• HMCS Nanaimo          (702)
• HMCS Edmonton        (703)
• HMCS Shawinigan      (704)
• HMCS Whitehorse      (705)
• HMCS Yellowknife      (706)
• HMCS Goose Bay       (707)
• HMCS Moncton         (708)
• HMCS Saskatoon       (709)
• HMCS Brandon          (710)
• HMCS Summerside     (711)      

Link to the subs:

http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/fleet-units/submarines-home.page

"

The Victoria-class long range patrol submarines are the Navy’s “special forces”. These stealthy submarines are well armed and capable of patrolling over vast distances, while their flexibility allows them to perform a wide range of unique naval missions.  

Acquired from the Royal Navy in the 1990s, the Victoria-class submarines can operate in the Arctic, Pacific and Atlantic approaches to Canada and significantly extend the Navy’s tactical and strategic capabilities.

Specifications:

Speed: 12 knots (surfaced), 20 knots (submerged)

Patrol Endurance: approximately 8 weeks.

Complement: 48 crew and 5 trainees.

Driving Depth: > 200 metres

 

The Victoria-class submarine’s homeports are Esquimalt, British Columbia, and Halifax, Nova Scotia.

The current Victoria-class submarines are:

• HMCS Victoria (876)
• HMCS Windsor (877)
• HMCS Corner Brook (878)
• HMCS Chicoutimi (879)

 

 Supply ships- 1 currently under construction , maybe 2, more to be built- this is in addition to the temporary lease ship/ freighter being modified as  I type.

http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/fleet-units/jss-home.page

"

The two Queenston-class Joint Support Ships (JSS) will replace the Royal Canadian Navy’s Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment vessels. The new ships will provide core replenishment, limited sealift capabilities, and support to operations ashore. The JSS will be one of the first of the Royal Canadian Navy’s ships to be built by one of the competitively selected Canadian shipyards, as part of the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy.

The JSS are a critical component for achieving success in both international and domestic CAF missions, as laid out in the Canada First Defence Strategy. The ships constitute a vital and strategic national asset. The presence of replenishment ships increases the range and endurance of a Naval Task Group, permitting it to remain at sea for significant periods of time without going to shore for replenishment.

The announced names of the Queenston-class ships are:

• HMCS Queenston
• HMCS Châteauguay

 

Ship Capabilities

The JSS project will procure two ships with an option for a third with capabilities such as:

• Underway Support to Naval Task Groups: Underway support is the term that describes the transfer of liquids and solids between ships at sea. This underway support also includes the operation and maintenance of helicopters, as well as task group medical and dental facilities;
• Limited Sealift: To meet a range of possibilities in an uncertain future security environment, JSS will be capable of delivering a limited amount of cargo ashore; and
• Limited Support to Operations Ashore: The JSS will leverage to the maximum extent possible its onboard facilities.

The JSS will replace the core capabilities of the Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment ships, including: provision of fuel, ammunition, spare parts, food, and water, and other supplies; modern medical and dental care facilities, including an operating room; repair facilities and expertise to keep helicopters and other equipment functioning; and basic self-defence functions.

Construction

On January 12, 2012, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced that the Government of Canada has reached agreements with Irving Shipbuilding Inc. and Vancouver Shipyards Co. Ltd. This charts the course for construction of Canada’s combat and non-combat surface fleets under the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy.

The strategic sourcing arrangements, called umbrella agreements, with each of the selected shipyards have been signed. Individual ship construction contracts will now be negotiated with the respective shipyards.

The building of the first Joint Support Ship is expected to start in the 2016-2017 timeframe, in keeping with the existing schedule. This means that the first ship would be anticipated in 2019, assuming no further delays in the schedule.

The Joint Support Ship project is currently conducting the Initial Design Review contract. This will enable Vancouver Shipyards Co. Ltd. to fully review the proven, off-the-shelf ship design from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems Canada, selected in June 2013. The contract negotiation and design preparation work will take place in 2015/2016, in order to bring the Joint Support Ship Design to a production ready state."

Naming

On October 25, 2013, the Honourable Rob Nicholson, P.C., Q.C., M.P. for Niagara Falls, Minister of National Defence, announced the names of the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) new Joint Support Ships (JSS), which will be built by Vancouver Shipyards Co. Ltd. in North Vancouver, B.C. The two Joint Support Ships (JSS) will be named Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship (HMCS) Queenston and HMCS Châteauguay in recognition of the significant battles of Queenston Heights and Châteauguay during the War of 1812.

“The names recognize the achievements and sacrifices of those early Canadian soldiers who fought and died in these critical battles during the War of 1812,” said Minister Nicholson. “The War of 1812 was a defining moment in our nation’s history that contributed to shaping our identity as Canadians and ultimately our existence as a country.”

“Canada’s rich military history is a source of inspiration for the men and women who currently serve in the Royal Canadian Navy,” said Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, Commander Royal Canadian Navy. “The events surrounding the War of 1812 remind us of the sacrifices of soldiers and sailors who fought for their country during a pivotal moment in Canadian history.”

Traditionally, the name of a class of warship is derived from the name of the first vessel in this class to be constructed. HMCS Queenston will be built first, therefore, the two JSS will be known as the Queenston-class.

 

Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ships:

"

The Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship (AOPS) project will deliver six ice-capable ships, designated as the Harry DeWolf Class, after Canadian wartime naval hero Vice-Admiral Harry DeWolf. The official RCN ship's class designation will be Arctic/Offshore Patrol Vessel (AOPV).

The AOPV will be capable of:

• armed sea-borne surveillance of Canada's waters, including the Arctic
• providing government situational awareness of activities and events in these regions
• cooperating with other partners in the Canadian Armed Forces and other government departments to assert and enforce Canadian sovereignty, when and where necessary.

Construction of the first AOPV began in 2015, with HMCS Harry DeWolf scheduled for delivery in 2018.

The announced names of the Harry DeWolf-class ships to date are:

• HMCS Harry DeWolf (AOPV* 430)
• HMCS Margaret Brooke (AOPV* 431)
• HMCS Max Bernays (AOPV* 432)
• HMCS William Hall (AOPV* 433)
• HMCS Frédérick Rolette (AOPV* 434)

* Official RCN ship's class designation

Specifications:

Length: 103 metres

Beam: 19 metres

Complement: 65

Features:

• Integrated Bridge Navigation System
  • Modern integrated bridge, from which control of navigation, machinery, and damage control systems can be performed.
• Multi-Purpose Operational Space
  • Where operational planning and mission execution will be coordinated.
• BAE Mk 38 Gun
  • Remote controlled 25 mm gun to support domestic constabulary role.
• Enclosed Focsle/Cable Deck
  • Protects foredeck machinery and workspace from harsh Arctic environment.
• Helicopter Capability
  • Depending on the mission, the embarked helicopter could range from a small utility aircraft right up to the new CH-148 maritime helicopter.
• Cargo/Payloads
  • Multiple payload options such as shipping containers, underwater survey equipment, or a landing craft. Ship has a 20-tonne crane to self-load/unload.
• Vehicle Bay
  • For rapid mobility over land or ice, the ship can carry vehicles such as pickup trucks, ATVs, and snowmobiles.
• Diesel/Electric Propulsion
  • Propulsion: ‎two 4.5 propulsion MW (induction) motors, and four 3.6 MVA generators.
• Retractable Active Fin Stabilizers
  • Deployed to reduce ship roll for open ocean operations, retracted for operations in ice.
• Multi-Role Rescue Boats
  • Top speed of 35+ knots, 8.5 metres long. Will support rescues, personnel transfers, or boarding operations.
• Bow Thrusters
  • To enable manoeuvring or berthing without tug assistance.

 

 

 So

12 Halifax frigates (up to 15 surfaces combatants at up to $26.2 billion  to be built starting early 2020's)-http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/business-equipment/canadian-surface-combatant.page

12 Kingston class

4 Victoria  class subs

2 Supply ships (being built)

6 Arctic/ off shore supply ships (being built)

 

 

 

[Gurn]

A study/report done by the Canadian Senate has recommended the following:

 

http://navaltoday.com/2017/05/09/canada-should-acquire-12-new-submarines-senate-report-says/

"

The Canadian Navy should acquire 12 new submarines with air independent propulsion, members of the Canadian standing senate defense committee recommended in their report released on Monday.

Titled ‘Reinvesting in the Canadian Armed Forces: A plan for the future’, the report suggests that the defense spending increase to 2% of the GDP in the next eleven years should be used to acquire the submarines, among other high-value items.

The 12 submarines should be distributed equally between the country’s two coasts.

The report also calls for the acquisition of a second Resolve-class auxiliary oiler replenishment ship and another 18 surface combatant vessels.

Furthermore, the replacement of maritime coastal defense vessels should be accelerated to allow for the acquisition of mine countermeasure vessels and destroyers.

[Ghostsof1915]

Why not try something innovative like what the Germans are doing building Hydrogen fuel cell submarines? Cut strategic dependence on oil. Have it with cruise missile tubes. 

Dump the F-35 and either build our own, or find a better replacement. Replace the Tudor aircraft for the Snowbirds with BAE Hawks. 

Make sure the troops are equipped properly, and take care of our vets. Make sure the equipment are maintained, and well supplied. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_212_submarine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Hawk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon ?

[-AJ-]

Does anyone ever know the oldest person ever to join the Canadian Reserves? My dad is in training and is substantially older than most of the others in training.

[Ghostsof1915]

25 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Does anyone ever know the oldest person ever to join the Canadian Reserves? My dad is in training and is substantially older than most of the others in training.

All I know is a 51 year old joined VPD.  Because in 2 years you jump to $80,000 a year. 

 

www.forces.ca

 

AGE STANDARD

On enrolment into the Regular Force, you must be of an age where there is enough time to complete any necessary training and your first term of service before the compulsory retirement age of 60. 

Reservists must be able to complete 2 years of service for each year of training before reaching the compulsory retirement age of 60.

[-AJ-]

18 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

All I know is a 51 year old joined VPD.  Because in 2 years you jump to $80,000 a year. 

 

www.forces.ca

 

AGE STANDARD

On enrolment into the Regular Force, you must be of an age where there is enough time to complete any necessary training and your first term of service before the compulsory retirement age of 60. 

Reservists must be able to complete 2 years of service for each year of training before reaching the compulsory retirement age of 60.

Hmm. My dad is 53 right now and is in training, though obviously the VPD is different than the reserves. It's also relevant that while he's getting some combat training, his primary role will be a non-combat one.

[HI5]

I'm recently out of a job, awesome at call of duty and in pretty good shape. Where do I sign up?

[Johnny Shotgun]

38 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

All I know is a 51 year old joined VPD.  Because in 2 years you jump to $80,000 a year. 

 

www.forces.ca

 

AGE STANDARD

On enrolment into the Regular Force, you must be of an age where there is enough time to complete any necessary training and your first term of service before the compulsory retirement age of 60. 

Reservists must be able to complete 2 years of service for each year of training before reaching the compulsory retirement age of 60.

Right you are. 

[diesel_3]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Hmm. My dad is 53 right now and is in training, though obviously the VPD is different than the reserves. It's also relevant that while he's getting some combat training, his primary role will be a non-combat one.

There was a lady on my BMQ who was 53, pretty impressive stuff.

[Lancaster]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Why not try something innovative like what the Germans are doing building Hydrogen fuel cell submarines? Cut strategic dependence on oil. Have it with cruise missile tubes. 

Dump the F-35 and either build our own, or find a better replacement. Replace the Tudor aircraft for the Snowbirds with BAE Hawks. 

Make sure the troops are equipped properly, and take care of our vets. Make sure the equipment are maintained, and well supplied. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_212_submarine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Hawk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon ?

Parts and maintenance gets really expensive if they're nearly "one-of-a-kind".

Hence why it's more difficult and expensive to maintain a Ferrari than a Ford.  

 

 

I'm wondering why don't Canada just purchase like 2nd hand US military goods?  I mean..... 20-30 year old US Naval vessels are probably still more modern than what the fleet currently has.  Parts should be relatively cheap and maybe the vessels can be purchased at a bargain from a NATO ally.  

[Gurn]

The Canadian Air Force :

 

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/aircraft-current/cf-188.page

 

"

Technical Specifications

Aircraft Description	The CF-188 is a multipurpose, high-performance twin-engine fighter that can handle both air-to-air (air defence, air superiority, combat air patrol) and air-to-ground (close air support, battlefield air interdiction) combat. Its on-board computer systems can quickly be re-programmed to the mission at hand. (Note: The CF-188 is officially designated the “CF188” in Canadian use, although mainly in official or technical documentation.) Adapted from the American F/A-18, the Canadian version of the jet features: a sidewards-aimed searchlight beneath the fuselage for nighttime visual identifications survival equipment adapted to the Canadian environment various cockpit layout modifications a paint scheme incorporating a “spoof” canopy on the underside of the front fuselage, intended to confuse opponents during aerial combat manoeuvres
Length	17.07m
Wingspan	12.31m
Height	4.66 m
Weight	10,455 kg
Power	2 General Electric F404 low bypass turbofan engines
Thrust	Standard: 4,850 kg (10,700 lbs.) Afterburner: 7,290 kg (16,000 lbs.)
Max. Speed	Mach 1.8
Service Ceiling	15,000 m
Range	3,700 km
Weapons	Air to Air: AIM 9M IR guided missile, AIM 7 radar guided missile, AIM 120 radar guided missile, 20 mm canon Air To Ground: Mk 82, Mk 83, Mk 84 , GBU 10, 12, 16 and 24 laser guided bombs, GBU 31 and 38 GPS guided bombs and the 20 mm cannon
Crew	1 pilot (CF-188A), 2 pilots (CF-188B)
Year(s) procured	1982 to 1988
Quantity in CF	77 modernized aircraft
	3 Wing Bagotville, QC 4 Wing Cold Lake, AB        Recon and search planes: CP-140 http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/aircraft-current/cp-140.page   Helicopters: http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/aircraft-current/ch-146.page   http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/aircraft-current/ch-147f.page   Transports: http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/aircraft-current/cc-177.page http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/aircraft-current/cc-130j.page       Aircraft: 77 CF 188   ( replacements unknown after the F-35 lighting decision) 18 Aurora  Survailance 85 Griffin helicopters 15 Chinook helicopters 5 Globe master transports 17 Hercules transports

Edited May 18, 2017 by gurn

[Gurn]

31 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

lParts and maintenance gets really expensive if they're nearly "one-of-a-kind".

Hence why it's more difficult and expensive to maintain a Ferrari than a Ford.  

 

 

I'm wondering why don't Canada just purchase like 2nd hand US military goods?  I mean..... 20-30 year old US Naval vessels are probably still more modern than what the fleet currently has.  Parts should be relatively cheap and maybe the vessels can be purchased at a bargain from a NATO ally.  

The first Halifax class frigate finished it's modernization in 2014 with the last one to be complete in 2018 so electronically they are pretty current. First one was commissioned in 1992 and the last in 1996, so 20-30 yr old American ships would be comparable to what we already have. afaik no decision has been made on the actual design, or number  of the replacement ships that ex-Pm Harper promised on multiple occasions.

Edited May 18, 2017 by gurn

[Ryan Strome]

On 2017-5-18 at 5:13 PM, Lancaster said:

Parts and maintenance gets really expensive if they're nearly "one-of-a-kind".

Hence why it's more difficult and expensive to maintain a Ferrari than a Ford.  

 

 

I'm wondering why don't Canada just purchase like 2nd hand US military goods?  I mean..... 20-30 year old US Naval vessels are probably still more modern than what the fleet currently has.  Parts should be relatively cheap and maybe the vessels can be purchased at a bargain from a NATO ally.  

The U.S navy wants more ships not less. 

[smithers joe]

i saw pictures of my old ship (hmcs fraser) being dismantled. we use to be strictly, an anti submarine navy. i don't know what our mandate is now.

[Violator]

5 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

The U.S navy wants more ships not less. 

Doesn't trump want to build like 260 new ships.

[Ryan Strome]

36 minutes ago, Violator said:

Doesn't trump want to build like 260 new ships.

Yup.

[Toews]

I am afraid I am woefully ignorant regarding anything related to this field. If anyone has any resources that they can provide so that I can at least get started with the basics, it will be greatly appreciated.

[Violator]

I wish they would have continually built more ships in this country we would of had some good skills and technology produced by know.

[Ryan Strome]

59 minutes ago, Violator said:

I wish they would have continually built more ships in this country we would of had some good skills and technology produced by know.

Canada needs to build more ships, jets and tanks. Create jobs as well as supporting our military internally. Canada made a great jet(avro arrow) and the tanks we built in ww2 were praised by the Russians.

 

The whole military needs a overhaul. We should have a force of At least 150,000 regular forces, a far bigger navy fleet and air fleet. Canada is a huge Country with 3 coasts. I hope a government finally steps up, my god we don't even have 1 multiple launch rocket system.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Ryan Strome

[Violator]

Feels like the way we moved into a peace keeping role.the fact we don't have a depserate workforce with no real opportunities for real jobs like the us.I still believe a two year mandatory enscription would be good.