Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Canadian Armed Forces Thread


Gurn

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, MattJVD said:

It's subsonic, short range, and can not go head to head with manned fighters. It's a great tool for anti-drone, transport, helicopter, and slower attack aircraft work. It's a great piece of kit, but not a replacement for a 5th gen fighter.

We're not worried about needing a massive fleet of fighters though if we not only have the US manning the area with us, but having a fleet of home built and operated drones capable of taking out surface vessels.  The biggest issue for us is the remoteness of the arctic and at this stage Chinese and Russian incursions in to it.  If we sink or strand a force in our high arctic the environment will more than take care of the issue for us.

 

MY thought process is saving $ in the long run while also ensuring a smaller more mobile force.  Having the US is always our ace in the hole, but water is going to be more valuable than gold in short order and that is something we have in spades.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canadian-warship-hit-with-covid-19-outbreak-ahead-of-overseas-deployment/ar-AAXfoD9?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=359675e3fe7f4487ae3bc9587aa9eff6

 

MCS Winnipeg is back home in Esquimalt, B.C., after seven sailors tested positive, only weeks before the ship is due to participate in a major training exercise and two overseas missions.

AAXfcc1.img?w=534&h=341&m=6

TTAWA — A Canadian warship has been hit with an outbreak of COVID-19 while preparing for an overseas deployment in the Pacific.

Those include assisting with the enforcement of United Nations sanctions against North Korea, which the Canadian Armed Forces has been doing since 2018.

Navy Lt. Pamela Hogan says the Winnipeg will remain docked in Esquimalt until mid-June, during which time sailors exhibiting symptoms will be required to self-isolate and not report to duty.

Hogan says the positive cases will not interfere with the frigate's planned deployment, as it had already been scheduled to remain in Esquimalt until mid-June.

The military says nearly 8,000 members of the Armed Forces have tested positive for COVID-19 since the start of the pandemic, with 268 active cases reported earlier this month.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published May 13, 2022.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/b-c-s-stocky-edwards-top-canadian-ace-of-wwii-s-western-desert-campaign-dies/ar-AAXj9SC?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=253919df8fd54a5a9d91ce2721d7526e

One of Canada's most celebrated World War Two fighter aces, James "Stocky" Edwards of Comox, B.C., has died at age 100.

 

In a Facebook post, Comox Mayor Russ Arnott said Edwards passed away Saturday evening.

Last June, fighter jets from CFB Comox performed a fly-by to celebrate the Saskatchewan-born pilot's 100th birthday.

Edwards had 19 confirmed aerial victories during the war. He was Canada's highest-scoring ace in the Western Desert campaign in North Africa.

He and his friends signed up with the Royal Canadian Air Force at just 19 years old.

"We'd hardly ever seen an airplane, but all we wanted to be was fighter pilots," he told Global News in a 2019 interview. "We didn't think about going to war, but we wanted to go where the war was."

While his passing must be mourned, his life must be celebrated as the gift it was," the Comox Air Force Museum wrote on Facebook.

"An officer and a gentleman in every sense of the word, Stocky lived a life of purpose, integrity, honour and courage. A modest hero, his legacy will be the example he set of service before self."

"Blue Skies, Wing Commander," wrote the Juno Beach Centre.

On Twitter, the RCAF Foundation wrote it was saddened to learn of his death, giving its condolences to his family and crafting a thread detailing Edwards' distinguished career.

Edwards served 32 years with the air force, before retiring to Comox on Vancouver Island, and was inducted in to Canada's Aviation Hall of Fame in 2013.

  • Huggy Bear 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/second-world-war-mosquito-plane-s-arrival-at-kelowna-s-kf-aerospace-delayed/ar-AAY9ksS?bk=1&ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=9f717c8ee88e46849067d5c0645790b7

AAY0cvQ.img?h=270&w=378&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

The arrival of a historic Mosquito warplane at KF Aerospace has been postponed due to mechanical issues

The historic de Havilland 98 Mosquito was supposed to arrive in Kelowna for 11:15 a.m. Monday, coinciding with the 78th anniversary of D-Day, which is being marked in ceremonies across the globe.

The Second World War fighter bomber, featuring a unique wooden frame and famous for hitting top speeds in wartime regions, will eventually be stationed in the KF hangars and a new landing ceremony will be scheduled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Commanding officer of HMCS Halifax relieved of his command:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/commanding-officer-of-hmcs-halifax-removed-from-command/ar-AAYgOTx?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a1fc0d8f15dd4225a55cd8b5c984dc50

The commanding officer of a navy frigate currently conducting operations for NATO has been removed from his command.

 

But the Canadian Forces has invoked a high level of secrecy about what was behind the removal of the commanding officer of HMCS Halifax. It is refusing to even name the individual.

However, a March news release from the Royal Canadian Navy stated that Commander Dale St. Croix would be the commanding officer of the frigate.

HMCS Halifax left on its NATO mission on March 19.

National Defence released news of the commander’s removal late Thursday.

“Following several incidents onboard HMCS Halifax during Operation Reassurance, Vice-Admiral Bob Auchterlonie, Commander Canadian Joint Operations Command, has temporarily relieved the Commanding Officer of HMCS Halifax of his duties so that an investigation into the details of the incidents may take place,” the statement noted.

“This investigation is in relation to incidents that took place onboard the ship during a port visit in Swinoujscie, Poland, while deployed on Operation Reassurance. These incidents do not concern any sexual misconduct, harmful or inappropriate sexual behaviour.”

The statement noted the action was deemed necessary to ensure the investigation could unfold while HMCS Halifax continued its deployment with Standing NATO Maritime Group 1.

Commander Paul Mountford, commanding officer of HMCS Charlottetown, has assumed command of Halifax in the interim. He will continue to command until the frigate returns home to Halifax in mid-July.

“The relieved CO of HMCS Halifax will serve in other roles within Maritime Forces Atlantic Headquarters in Canada until the conclusion of the investigation,” the statement added.

There was no explanation why Auchterlonie decided the name of the commanding officer should remain secret.

St. Croix has recently given interviews to the media and the Royal Canadian Navy has highlighted St. Croix’s leadership in media announcements and public-relations articles.

A April 5 article featured on National Defence’s website quoted St. Croix saying he and the crew were thankful for the support they received for their NATO mission. “We’ve received a lot of encouragement from people and politicians to business leaders, all telling us they’re proud of what we’re doing. It’s been very touching,” St. Croix was quoted as stating.

Removal of the commanding officer of a warship, particularly one at sea, is considered a significant action.

In January 2020, the navy removed both the commanding officer of HMCS Calgary and his second-in-command just months before the frigate was to take on a new mission in the Pacific. The commanding officer was removed because of problems the warship’s crew were having in preparing for the upcoming deployment to the Asia Pacific.

The second-in-command was relieved of his duties after he was found guilty of misconduct for his actions in disabling smoke and heat detectors in the ship’s wardroom so he could smoke. The disabling of those safety systems took place less than two weeks after a fire broke out in the engine room of HMCS Calgary.

No news release about the removal of the officers was originally issued, but details of the removal were leaked to the Times-Colonist newspaper in Victoria, which then reported on the navy’s decision.

The Royal Canadian Navy then named both individuals to media outlets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valid criticism:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/when-canada-s-military-didn-t-suck/ar-AAYiJWZ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=42d6fd2c90814c27ba6d90c738bed089

A new report by the Parliamentary Budget Officer found that if Canada wanted to come close to meeting our minimum NATO commitments, we’d have to spend at least $13 billion more on defence per year. Canada has been neglecting its military for more than a generation at this point, with the inevitable result that the uniforms are threadbare, outdated ships are pushed into service until they catch fire, and allies are constantly on our case about being perennial freeloaders. 

But it didn’t use to be this way at all. Watch the Everything Should Be Better video or read the transcript below to learn about when Canada actually took “standing on guard for thee” seriously. 

If you’re a Canadian, you’ve become accustomed to the notion that our military isn’t all that good at stuff.

Our only resupply vessel caught fire, so we had to slap together a replacement out of an old container ship.  If our soldiers show up to a shooting competition, their WWII-era pistols jam up so badly they all have to share one.

But there was a time, not too long ago, when the Canadian Armed Forces weren’t a threadbare embarrassment.

And I’m not talking about the world wars. Yes, we’re all aware that Canada had the world’s third-largest navy at the close of World War II; that’s what happens when you sink most of the other ones.

I’m talking about the early Cold War. Canada was a founding partner in NATO in 1949 and for the first 20 years of the alliance, it was something we actually took really seriously.

This is HMCS Bonaventure, one of three aircraft carriers that Canada operated in the 1950s and 60s. We had a naval station in Bermuda and five air bases in Europe: Three in Germany, one in France and one in the U.K. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Americans asked Canada to patrol their eastern seaboard so they could focus on the Caribbean

We also designed and built our own stuff. This is the Canadian-manufactured CF-100 Canuck, it was patrolling the Iron Curtain right up until 1981. And this is the Canadair Sabre: This one was good enough that we sold it to the UK, Germany, and the United States.

Even as countries around the world boost military spending as a counter to Russia, Canada still has one of the proportionally smallest defence budgets in NATO; even after some moderate boosts to the military budget we’re still spending only about 1.5 per cent of GDP . But back in the 1950s, the military budget was routinely 4 per cent of GDP or higher. In 1970, you had more than 100,000 serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces. Nowadays, Canada has 15 million more people, but the regular force is down to 68,000.

So what changed? It’s popular to blame Pierre Trudeau; although he kept most of Canada’s Cold War infrastructure intact, he did incrementally shrink military spending as a share of GDP.

But it was the 1990s where things really went south. The Cold War ended just in time for Canada to have a sovereign debt crisis. So, while frantically balancing the budget, we decided it would be okay if a lot of our armed forces held together with bungee cords (literally, in some cases). And honestly, Conservative Stephen Harper wasn’t all that different: He liked the military, but he liked fiscal restraint even more.

Anyways, a robust military might be part of why the world actually used to listen to Canada sometimes. We never get tired of romanticizing the time in 1956 when Prime Minister Lester Pearson proposed the use of peacekeepers to bring about an end to the Suez Crisis. But Pearson wasn’t just some schlub negotiator; he actually had a well-equipped military that was powerful enough to act as an intervenor in a major middle Eastern conflict.

It turns out world leaders are less inclined to return your calls when all you have are ideas about what their militaries could do because yours is too busy catching fire.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 4petesake said:


 Don’t know where else to post this so I’ll drop it here.

War narrowly averted.  :gocan:
 

 

 

I think the Greenland Eskimos went to Hans Island for R&R after kicking the crap out of the Norges. :) 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This will annoy the few Danish and Canadian sailors that would go to the island, a tdifferent times, and swap flags and alcohol.

no longer able to regal their kids with stories of the day they claimed territory on behalf of their country.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/canada-and-denmark-whiskey-war-over-hans-island-2016-1

Peter Takso Jensen, the Danish Ambassador to the US, has said that "when Danish military go there, they leave a bottle of schnapps. And when [Canadian] military forces come there, they leave a bottle of Canadian Club and a sign saying, 'Welcome to Canada.'"

Edited by gurn
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A thought:

 

This would be a great opportunity for a photo shoot.

Leaders of both countries, stand on the border line and toast the other country.

 

'Hey Russia, this is how you should settle disputes'

  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2022/06/01/halifax-shipyard-warns-warship-schedule-contingent-on-more-federal-funding/#.Yq5gjUbMLb1

OTTAWA — The company responsible for building Canada's next fleet of warships says it remains on schedule to cut steel in two years — as long as Ottawa gives it more cash to upgrade its Halifax shipyard.

Speaking at a major defence conference on Wednesday, Irving Shipbuilding president Kevin Mooney said his shipyard needs several upgrades that were not originally anticipated when the company was selected to build the new fleet back in 2010.

That is because the warship envisioned today is very different from what was originally planned when Irving agreed to upgrade the shipyard at its own cost as a condition for winning the multibillion-dollar contract, Mooney said.

“Basically it's a larger ship, it's a more complex ship,” he said. “So we have to upgrade portions of the shipyard to be able to handle both the capability and the capacity. And also, we don't want to bring a very high risk to the construction process.”

Irving is now waiting for Ottawa to respond to its latest proposal, Mooney added, but the company needs additional funds by the end of the year in order to stay on schedule and start work on the first vessel by 2024.

“To meet the mid-2024 start of construction date that I mentioned, we need hard funding for equipment and breaking ground and things like that in the shipyard by the end of this year, beginning of next year,” he said.

“There is a clock ticking, there absolutely is a clock ticking. It is critical, absolutely critical, that we get this result as soon as possible.”

Mooney did not say how much money Irving is looking for to upgrade its shipyard, and a company official declined to comment.

Public Services and Procurement Canada did not respond to requests for comment on Wednesday.

Irving was tapped in 2010 to build 15 new warships to replace the navy’s 12 frigates and three destroyers, the latter of which have already been retired. The vessels are based on a British design, the Type 26, which is also being built by Australia.

Ottawa originally earmarked $26 billion for the new vessels, with the first of the ships expected in the water by 2025. However, various delays have pushed back that schedule to the early 2030s, with the price tag set at $60 billion.

However, Mooney acknowledged the overall cost of what was already Canada’s largest-ever military procurement is now back under review as a result of skyrocketing inflation and supply-chain issues

That echoes warnings from federal bureaucrats in April that more cost overruns and delays were on the horizon for the delivery of new ships to the navy and coast guard, as "significant challenges" batter Ottawa's multibillion-dollar shipbuilding program.

The threat of another delay is sure to worry the Royal Canadian Navy, whose previous commander told The Canadian Press in December that Canada’s Halifax-class frigates are starting to show their age.

The frigates, which entered service in the early to mid-1990s and act as the navy’s workhorses, have been struck by more than 10 fires since 2018, as well as at least one power outage.

The Canadian Press also reported on an internal Defence Department review in 2020 that found the navy’s maintenance facilities were having an increasingly tough time fixing the warships because of staff shortages, lack of spare parts and the age of the fleet.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published June 1, 2022.

Lee Berthiaume, The Canadian Press

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Canada sends 2 ships to European Theater, for mine sweeping and patrolling duties:

https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/54/1244/470644/War-in-Ukraine/Military/Canada-sends--warships-to-Baltic-Sea-to-bolster-se.aspx

 

Canada on Sunday deployed two warships to the Baltic Sea and North Atlantic, joining a pair of frigates already in the region, to reinforce NATO's eastern flank in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

41_2022-637918761235536267-553.jpg

 

Her Majesty's Canadian Ships (HMCS) Kingston and Summerside set sail for a four-month deployment as part of "deterrence measures in Central and Eastern Europe" launched in 2014 after Moscow annexed Crimea, the Canadian navy said in a statement.

Through October, the ships will participate in naval mine sweeping exercises and maintain a "high readiness" allowing them to "quickly and effectively respond in support of any NATO operations," it added.

HMCS Halifax and Montreal are scheduled to return to port in July from the so-called Operation Reassurance -- which is currently Canada's largest deployment abroad.

The mission also includes roughly 700 Canadian troops in Latvia with artillery and electronic warfare capabilities, as well as several military aircraft.

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canada-slips-further-away-from-nato-s-2-defence-spending-benchmark/ar-AAYY7YT?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c393a09034ff46e8a6868dcd2faf451c

On the same day NATO’s chief chided allies over not meeting the alliance’s defence spending benchmarks,  new numbers show Canada’s financial commitment  fell compared to last year.

Released on Monday,  NATO’s annual list of members’ defence expenditures  shows Canada’s ratio of defence spending to its Gross Domestic Product (GDP) fell from 1.36 per cent last year, to 1.27 per cent in 2022.

 

This continues a downward trend in defence spending that began in 2020, which saw Canada’s defence spending reach a five-year peak of 1.42 per cent.

That places Canada six from the bottom in terms of national defence commitments, between the Czech Republic and Slovenia.

The numbers were released shortly before NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg admonished members for treating the two per cent number as a goal instead of a baseline.

“Nine allies now reach or exceed the two per cent target, 19 allies have clear plans to reach it by 2024, and an additional five have concrete commitments to meet it thereafter,” Stoltenberg said on Monday as the alliance prepares to kick off this week’s summit in Madrid.

“Two percent is increasingly considered a floor, not a ceiling.”

He said members will agree to invest more resources in the alliance, for the benefit of world security.

NATO’s numbers for 2022 are based on data collected as of June 20, and include estimated forecasts.

Of the 29 NATO member states (Iceland has no armed forces,) nine countries have defence spending ratios above two per cent — Greece (3.76 per cent,) the United States (3.47 per cent,) Poland (2.42 per cent,) Lithuania (2.36 per cent,) Estonia (2.34 per cent,) the United Kingdom (2.12 per cent,) Latvia (2.10 per cent,) Croatia (2.03 per cent,) and the Slovak Republic (two per cent.)

The Slovak Republic’s 0.27 per cent spending increased the ranks of this year’s “two per cent club” to nine.

NATO’s calculations of defence spending include factors such as research and development, equipment expenditures, and benefits paid to retired armed forces members.

NATO members will collectively spend $1.051 trillion US ($1.353 trillion CAD) on national defence.

 
 

Funding forecasts show defence spending in Canada increasing to $41.5 billion next year, peaking at $51.1 billion in FY 2026-27 — predicted to only get Canada to 1.46 to 1.60 per cent of defence spending to GDP.

This year’s  federal budget was vague  on how the Liberals plan to spend Canada’s defence dollars, citing the volatile world situation as well as plans to review of Canada’s defence policy.

Questions also surround Canada’s commitments to NORAD, and where the nearly  $5 billion Ottawa’s promised to modernize the joint North American defence partnership  will come from.

Emily Desrochers, spokesperson for the office of Defence Minister Anita Anand, maintains that Canada’s current defence policy, 2017’s Strong, Secure, Engaged, will increase defence spending “by over 70 per cent” between 2017 and 2026.

“This plan is fully-costed and fully-funded — allowing our military and our allies to count on predictable, sustained investments,” Desrochers said.

Experts say current commitments, however, won’t be enough to meet NATO’s minimum expectations.

Earlier this month, Canada’s Parliamentary Budget Officer (PBO)  said Canada needed to increase defence spending by $75.3 billion over the next five years  just to meet NATO’s two per cent benchmark.

In his report, PBO Yves Giroux said Canada needed to increase this year’s spending by $18.2 billion to meet NATO’s target, decreasing from $15.5 in 2023-24 to just $13 billion after five years.

In his speech, Stoltenberg described this week’s NATO meeting as “transformative” as the world faces the new reality of Russia and China as looming threats to international security.

“Our new (strategic concept) will guide us in an era of strategic competition, I expect it will make clear that allies consider Russia as the most significant and direct threat to our security,” he said on Monday.

“It will address China for the first time, and the challenges that Beijing poses to our security, interests, and values.”

Stoltenberg also spoke of strengthening NATO’s forward defences, bolstering the alliance’s high-readiness forces to over 300,000 personnel — including increasing eastern European battlegroups to “brigade” levels.

While most countries define their own military echelons, a standard NATO brigade consists of between 3,000 to 5,000 troops organized into several battalions.

Canada has lead NATO’s Enhanced Forward Presence (EFP) battle group in Latvia since 2017 , consisting of roughly a third of NATO troops and 700 Canadian Armed Forces members.

“In February, we announced the expansion of Operation REASSURANCE, including additional land based capabilities to Latvia,” Desrochers said.

“In March, we announced the multi-year extension of this mission and more recently, we announced that Canada will contribute a General Officer and Staff Officers to the leadership of Multinational Division-North Headquarters in Latvia.”

Questions by the National Post about how much Canada plans to increase its Latvian presence, as well when this was going to take place, went unanswered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/new-shipbuilding-delay-leaves-canada-reliant-on-allies-civilian-ship-to-supply-navy/ar-AAZ2W8Y?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5f954b6fa3cd42369352e50436755e07

OTTAWA — The Royal Canadian Navy will need to wait an extra two years for the delivery of new support ships, the federal government said Thursday, meaning Canada will need to rely on a civilian ship and the goodwill of allies to resupply its naval fleet for the foreseeable future.

The first of two new support ships being built by Seaspan Shipyards in Vancouver will not be delivered until at least 2025 — two years later than the most recent estimate.

 

The new delivery schedule, if it sticks, is now six years later than originally anticipated.

By that time, the navy will have been without a permanent supply ship for a full decade.

The second vessel will face a similar delay, and now is not expected until 2027.

Navy officials have previously stressed the importance of having purpose-built support ships for overseas operations given the limitations of relying on allies and the civilian vessel's inability to operate in war zones.

Even then, the new schedule is no certainty. Delays and cost overruns have plagued much of Canada’s decade-long, multibillion-dollar effort to replace its aging navy and coast guard fleets.

In providing the update on Thursday, officials also could not guarantee Canada will end up with both support ships.

They say the project’s budget, originally set at $2.3 billion but later updated to $4.1 billion, is now under review.

Seaspan has already started work on the second joint support ship, as the vessels are known in military circles, and Defence Department procurement chief Troy Crosby said the government’s stated goal remains the purchase of two such ships.

However, Crosby added, “it's something that we're assessing now and will provide an update once we have a better understanding of exactly the cost impact.”

It also wasn’t immediately clear what effect the new delay will have on the other shipbuilding projects that Seaspan is working on, which includes a new polar icebreaker to replace the coast guard’s flagship by 2030.

Canada has been without a permanent supply ship since 2015, when the navy was forced to retire its existing two vessels earlier than expected after one caught on fire while at sea and excessive corrosion was discovered on the other.

The government initially relied on allies to fill the gap before agreeing to lease a converted civilian container ship from Quebec-based Chantier Davie. That deal was at the heart of the failed prosecution of retired vice-admiral Mark Norman.

The military’s former second-in-command was accused of leaking cabinet secrets about the leasing agreement with Davie, but the breach-of-trust charge against him was stayed in 2019 when Crown prosecutors concluded that they had no reasonable chance of securing a conviction. Earlier this month, the Crown also dropped its related case against a federal public servant. Both men had maintained their innocence.

While the initial five-year lease agreement between Ottawa and Davie for the MV Asterix was launched in January 2018 and due to expire next year, officials said the government is now negotiating an extension.

Documents obtained by The Canadian Press in 2020 showed the navy expects to continue relying on the Asterix and allies to help resupply Canada’s fleets at sea even after the two joint support ships are built.

Canada originally planned to buy three new navy support ships when it launched the project more than a decade ago, but cost overruns saw the order cut down to two.

Navy officials continued to indicate that two support ships were not enough to meet the maritime force’s long-term needs, as the government’s policy requires the military be able to operate two fleets at sea at the same time.

The fear is that the navy will be hamstrung whenever one of the two so-called joint support ships is out of commission, either for repairs or for some other reason.

Asked whether the government was looking to purchase the Asterix outright from Davie, as some observers have previously suggested, the senior official responsible for military procurement at Public Service and Procurement Canada said no.

“Discussions and negotiations at the moment are just truly and only about extending the contract as we know it now,” said Simon Page, the department's assistant deputy minister.

Royal Canadian Navy commander Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee said the force will continue to rely on the Asterix and allies for assistance resupplying at sea, but he acknowledged both stopgaps have drawbacks and limitations.

Those include the fact the Asterix is not designed for “high-threat environments,” Topshee said. It also means the navy cannot currently meet the government’s requirement that it be able to operate two fleets at sea at the same time.

“Can we manage? Yes,” Topshee said.

“Is it ideal? No, that's why we're building the two joint support ships.”

The new delay is the latest blow to the federal government’s effort to replace the aging fleets of both the navy and Canadian Coast Guard — an effort that has already dragged on for more than a decade and is now projected to cost around $100 billion.

While officials blamed a combination of factors, including the COVID-19 pandemic and supply-chain problems, many of the issues predate both and have been pinned on both the government and shipyards.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, gurn said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/new-shipbuilding-delay-leaves-canada-reliant-on-allies-civilian-ship-to-supply-navy/ar-AAZ2W8Y?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5f954b6fa3cd42369352e50436755e07

OTTAWA — The Royal Canadian Navy will need to wait an extra two years for the delivery of new support ships, the federal government said Thursday, meaning Canada will need to rely on a civilian ship and the goodwill of allies to resupply its naval fleet for the foreseeable future.

The first of two new support ships being built by Seaspan Shipyards in Vancouver will not be delivered until at least 2025 — two years later than the most recent estimate.

 

The new delivery schedule, if it sticks, is now six years later than originally anticipated.

By that time, the navy will have been without a permanent supply ship for a full decade.

The second vessel will face a similar delay, and now is not expected until 2027.

Navy officials have previously stressed the importance of having purpose-built support ships for overseas operations given the limitations of relying on allies and the civilian vessel's inability to operate in war zones.

Even then, the new schedule is no certainty. Delays and cost overruns have plagued much of Canada’s decade-long, multibillion-dollar effort to replace its aging navy and coast guard fleets.

In providing the update on Thursday, officials also could not guarantee Canada will end up with both support ships.

They say the project’s budget, originally set at $2.3 billion but later updated to $4.1 billion, is now under review.

Seaspan has already started work on the second joint support ship, as the vessels are known in military circles, and Defence Department procurement chief Troy Crosby said the government’s stated goal remains the purchase of two such ships.

However, Crosby added, “it's something that we're assessing now and will provide an update once we have a better understanding of exactly the cost impact.”

It also wasn’t immediately clear what effect the new delay will have on the other shipbuilding projects that Seaspan is working on, which includes a new polar icebreaker to replace the coast guard’s flagship by 2030.

Canada has been without a permanent supply ship since 2015, when the navy was forced to retire its existing two vessels earlier than expected after one caught on fire while at sea and excessive corrosion was discovered on the other.

The government initially relied on allies to fill the gap before agreeing to lease a converted civilian container ship from Quebec-based Chantier Davie. That deal was at the heart of the failed prosecution of retired vice-admiral Mark Norman.

The military’s former second-in-command was accused of leaking cabinet secrets about the leasing agreement with Davie, but the breach-of-trust charge against him was stayed in 2019 when Crown prosecutors concluded that they had no reasonable chance of securing a conviction. Earlier this month, the Crown also dropped its related case against a federal public servant. Both men had maintained their innocence.

While the initial five-year lease agreement between Ottawa and Davie for the MV Asterix was launched in January 2018 and due to expire next year, officials said the government is now negotiating an extension.

Documents obtained by The Canadian Press in 2020 showed the navy expects to continue relying on the Asterix and allies to help resupply Canada’s fleets at sea even after the two joint support ships are built.

Canada originally planned to buy three new navy support ships when it launched the project more than a decade ago, but cost overruns saw the order cut down to two.

Navy officials continued to indicate that two support ships were not enough to meet the maritime force’s long-term needs, as the government’s policy requires the military be able to operate two fleets at sea at the same time.

The fear is that the navy will be hamstrung whenever one of the two so-called joint support ships is out of commission, either for repairs or for some other reason.

Asked whether the government was looking to purchase the Asterix outright from Davie, as some observers have previously suggested, the senior official responsible for military procurement at Public Service and Procurement Canada said no.

“Discussions and negotiations at the moment are just truly and only about extending the contract as we know it now,” said Simon Page, the department's assistant deputy minister.

Royal Canadian Navy commander Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee said the force will continue to rely on the Asterix and allies for assistance resupplying at sea, but he acknowledged both stopgaps have drawbacks and limitations.

Those include the fact the Asterix is not designed for “high-threat environments,” Topshee said. It also means the navy cannot currently meet the government’s requirement that it be able to operate two fleets at sea at the same time.

“Can we manage? Yes,” Topshee said.

“Is it ideal? No, that's why we're building the two joint support ships.”

The new delay is the latest blow to the federal government’s effort to replace the aging fleets of both the navy and Canadian Coast Guard — an effort that has already dragged on for more than a decade and is now projected to cost around $100 billion.

While officials blamed a combination of factors, including the COVID-19 pandemic and supply-chain problems, many of the issues predate both and have been pinned on both the government and shipyards.

 

Two clearly isn't enough as both the Pacific and Atlantic fleets need to be supplied.  Feds need to meet our NATO obligations, use some of those funds to build the third vessel, and stop half-assing this.

Edited by King Heffy
  • Cheers 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Two clearly isn't enough as both the Pacific and Atlantic fleets need to be supplied.  Feds need to meet our NATO obligations, use some of those funds to build the third vessel, and stop half-assing this.

An argument could be made for a 3rd re supply vessel; as we will need a year round Arctic fleet in a few years, of melting ice and higher temps.

Plus spares, for when the ships have to be in re fits.

 

Question is-will any Canadian government have the stones to pay the money required to maintain a credible navy.

The commitment to 15 type -26 frigates is not iron clad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, gurn said:

An argument could be made for a 3rd re supply vessel; as we will need a year round Arctic fleet in a few years, of melting ice and higher temps.

Plus spares, for when the ships have to be in re fits.

 

Question is-will any Canadian government have the stones to pay the money required to maintain a credible navy.

The commitment to 15 type -26 frigates is not iron clad.

I think a strong argument can be made to prioritize the navy with Sweden and Finland joining NATO.  Ramp up our shipbuilding capacity while Sweden keeps building their jets.  Specialize and work together with allies.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gurn said:

An argument could be made for a 3rd re supply vessel; as we will need a year round Arctic fleet in a few years, of melting ice and higher temps.

Plus spares, for when the ships have to be in re fits.

 

Question is-will any Canadian government have the stones to pay the money required to maintain a credible navy.

The commitment to 15 type -26 frigates is not iron clad.

Would probably need 2 more supply vessels.  Need to account for dry docking periods for maintenance.

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, gurn said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/new-shipbuilding-delay-leaves-canada-reliant-on-allies-civilian-ship-to-supply-navy/ar-AAZ2W8Y?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5f954b6fa3cd42369352e50436755e07

OTTAWA — The Royal Canadian Navy will need to wait an extra two years for the delivery of new support ships, the federal government said Thursday, meaning Canada will need to rely on a civilian ship and the goodwill of allies to resupply its naval fleet for the foreseeable future.

The first of two new support ships being built by Seaspan Shipyards in Vancouver will not be delivered until at least 2025 — two years later than the most recent estimate.

 

The new delivery schedule, if it sticks, is now six years later than originally anticipated.

By that time, the navy will have been without a permanent supply ship for a full decade.

The second vessel will face a similar delay, and now is not expected until 2027.

Navy officials have previously stressed the importance of having purpose-built support ships for overseas operations given the limitations of relying on allies and the civilian vessel's inability to operate in war zones.

Even then, the new schedule is no certainty. Delays and cost overruns have plagued much of Canada’s decade-long, multibillion-dollar effort to replace its aging navy and coast guard fleets.

In providing the update on Thursday, officials also could not guarantee Canada will end up with both support ships.

They say the project’s budget, originally set at $2.3 billion but later updated to $4.1 billion, is now under review.

Seaspan has already started work on the second joint support ship, as the vessels are known in military circles, and Defence Department procurement chief Troy Crosby said the government’s stated goal remains the purchase of two such ships.

However, Crosby added, “it's something that we're assessing now and will provide an update once we have a better understanding of exactly the cost impact.”

It also wasn’t immediately clear what effect the new delay will have on the other shipbuilding projects that Seaspan is working on, which includes a new polar icebreaker to replace the coast guard’s flagship by 2030.

Canada has been without a permanent supply ship since 2015, when the navy was forced to retire its existing two vessels earlier than expected after one caught on fire while at sea and excessive corrosion was discovered on the other.

The government initially relied on allies to fill the gap before agreeing to lease a converted civilian container ship from Quebec-based Chantier Davie. That deal was at the heart of the failed prosecution of retired vice-admiral Mark Norman.

The military’s former second-in-command was accused of leaking cabinet secrets about the leasing agreement with Davie, but the breach-of-trust charge against him was stayed in 2019 when Crown prosecutors concluded that they had no reasonable chance of securing a conviction. Earlier this month, the Crown also dropped its related case against a federal public servant. Both men had maintained their innocence.

While the initial five-year lease agreement between Ottawa and Davie for the MV Asterix was launched in January 2018 and due to expire next year, officials said the government is now negotiating an extension.

Documents obtained by The Canadian Press in 2020 showed the navy expects to continue relying on the Asterix and allies to help resupply Canada’s fleets at sea even after the two joint support ships are built.

Canada originally planned to buy three new navy support ships when it launched the project more than a decade ago, but cost overruns saw the order cut down to two.

Navy officials continued to indicate that two support ships were not enough to meet the maritime force’s long-term needs, as the government’s policy requires the military be able to operate two fleets at sea at the same time.

The fear is that the navy will be hamstrung whenever one of the two so-called joint support ships is out of commission, either for repairs or for some other reason.

Asked whether the government was looking to purchase the Asterix outright from Davie, as some observers have previously suggested, the senior official responsible for military procurement at Public Service and Procurement Canada said no.

“Discussions and negotiations at the moment are just truly and only about extending the contract as we know it now,” said Simon Page, the department's assistant deputy minister.

Royal Canadian Navy commander Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee said the force will continue to rely on the Asterix and allies for assistance resupplying at sea, but he acknowledged both stopgaps have drawbacks and limitations.

Those include the fact the Asterix is not designed for “high-threat environments,” Topshee said. It also means the navy cannot currently meet the government’s requirement that it be able to operate two fleets at sea at the same time.

“Can we manage? Yes,” Topshee said.

“Is it ideal? No, that's why we're building the two joint support ships.”

The new delay is the latest blow to the federal government’s effort to replace the aging fleets of both the navy and Canadian Coast Guard — an effort that has already dragged on for more than a decade and is now projected to cost around $100 billion.

While officials blamed a combination of factors, including the COVID-19 pandemic and supply-chain problems, many of the issues predate both and have been pinned on both the government and shipyards.

 

2025 will roll around.  Peppy Le Pierre for the Conservatives will sit and crap on Trudeau and the NDP for not being able to deliver ships from a program HE literally championed under the former leader Stephen harper almost 11 years ago.  

 

And of course, people will eat it up.

 

Canada is a gd joke when it comes to military procurements.  These should be free from partisan games yet somehow, someway....

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...