Best Complimentary Players

[ReggieBush]

2 hours ago, ken kaniff said:

Don't think Cassels or Lockwood will be NHL players.  This is how I see our future lines turning out.

 

Dahlen-Glass-Goldobin

-Glass (If we select him in the draft) is a very good playmaker and 2 way center. Dahlen and Goldobin could be our 2 most offensive threats and Glass can be the set up man. 

 

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser

-I think this line was our best line at the end of the year. Keep them together and see what they can do in a full season. 

 

Granlund-Gaudette-Virtanen

-Gaudette had an amazing year in college. Good two way game, and offensive instincts. Jake I see has a Raffi Torres type who can pot 20 goals and be a physical force. Granny had a good year and I think is most suited for a LW spot than C.

 

 

 

4

The kid is a puck hound. Plays bigger than his size and can fly. I am more confident the Lockwood will become an NHL player than damn near anyone in our system.

[coastal.view]

2 hours ago, khay said:

For next season, I don't think Cassels and Lockwood aren't going to be on the team.

 

1st line: Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser. A line of driver (Horvat), skilled playmaker (Baertschi), and sniper (Boeser). This can be a pretty good first line in few years and it would be a good idea to let them develop chemistry right away.

 

2nd line: Sedin-Sedin-Goldobin. With first line duties off of their shoulders, it will be interesting to see what they can do. Goldobin showed that he is an intelligent player who knew where to go when playing with the Sedins. And personally, thought he complimented the Sedins even better than Granlund. However, this line can be a defensive liability when matched against a faster opponent line. If Goldobin doesn't come to camp ready and Rodin shows up healthy and ready, that could create an opening for Rodin to slot in instead of Goldobin.

 

3rd line: Granlund-Sutter-Eriksson. Very balanced line. Defensively dependable and has enough skill to generate offence.

 

4th line: Up for grabs. I really can't imagine what is going to happen here. All 3 spots are up for grabs. Will be interesting to see what JB does to build up a capable, gritty 4th line to make up for lack of grit on the 1st to 3rd lines.

 

without knowing yet any additions that might still be made through the draft or free agency

i think you are pretty astute in the 3 mostly likely line combinations for our top 3 lines next season

[CanuckleHorse]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

"Strong points. My observation last season when Boeser was added to the Horvat line is that the production of Bo & Baertschi declined"

 

This may have more to do with Bo's line being moved up to top line against better competition, than a ' misfit" with Boeser

The level of competition got better and Bo may have ran out of gas he's still a kid after all but even if it was the case it's a learning experience for young Bo who I see will only get better this kid is born to be.

[Noble 6]

________ - _________ - Boeser

Dahlen - Horvat - Goldobin

Baertschi - Gaudette - Virtanen

Granlund - Gaunce - Lockwood

 

1st Line: Incomplete, but it looks like we have a pretty good sniper on the wing. 

 

2nd Line: Dahlen and Horvat are hard workers down low and can play along the boards. Both are smart players and can finish plays. That opens up space for Goldobin to make smart plays in the offensive zone and find the open man. 

 

3rd Line: Gaudette is still a relative unknown on what he'll be, but hopefully he can fill that spot. Him and Baertschi can make plays in the offensive zone while Virtanen opens up space. 

 

4th Line: Granlund brings some vision and offensive creativity. Gaunce is the responsible, 200ft center. Lockwood is the speedy winger on the right. Speed might be a concern with 2/3rds of the line being on the slower end. 

 

Obviously a lot has to go right for this to happen, but that's how I'd draw it up right now. 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

If the quality of the Canucks' roster is such that Cassels or Virtanen make the cut, well...  Well, it's time to demote the team down to the AHL for starters.  Perhaps the ECHL.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Don't think Rodin or Cassels will ever make the NHL, but hey, prove me wrong. 

 

I could certainly see this 5th overall 2017 pick splitting time with Horvat as our 2 top centers, with Sutter taking a back seat at the 3rd line spot and Henrik and Daniel slowly but surely retiring from the 2nd to 3rd to 4th line over the next year or two.

 

The wingers will probably get rotated all over the place. Baertschi and Granlund look like locks for a good little while (as long as they're not traded). Goldobin and Dahlen will have to prove themselves but should realistically be top-9 forwards on our team for a while. Boeser looks untouchable as a top-6 winger for the next decade. That's 5 out of the 6 top-9 winger spots secured. Throw in a UFA (eg. Eriksson for now...) or wild-card sort of player who really impresses at training camp (eg. Megna, Labate, Virtanen, Boucher) and there's not much room to move there. Our forwards are starting to really take shape and there's not much else we need. A bit more size and grit in the bottom-6 would be nice, but that's where guys like Sutter, Virtanen and Gaunce really need to step up.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Optimist's claim, with will there's a way

Badasss-counter: best-laid goes astray

The Devil we know

Succeeds in the show

Patience in youth, true theme of this play

[CanadianRugby]

17 hours ago, Nucktika said:

there are generally 5 players on the lice. Grit can come from the back end. Grit doesn't mean you have to fight your opponents. Maintaining possession. playing a high IQ game can make it tough for opponents. A mobile blue line adds to that formula as well. players like Bo, Cody Glass (if drafted) Loui, Boeser, among others are strong on their skates. The suggested pieces doesn't include all prospects and potential future acquisitions.

If Gudbranson resigns, if Tryamkin comes back and if Virtanen develops into a somewhat quality NHLer.. that gives you a total of 3 players with size/grit.  You have to be a really deeply talented team to out-skill your opponents, unless Vancouver keeps drafting in the top 5 for a few more years or lucks out and drafts a couple of superstars in later rounds.. that 'aint happening.  

[CanadianRugby]

7 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

If the quality of the Canucks' roster is such that Cassels or Virtanen make the cut, well...  Well, it's time to demote the team down to the AHL for starters.  Perhaps the ECHL.

The Canucks pretty much had an AHL quality roster last year and if the team is actually going to embrace a rebuild this year, why couldn't Cassels or Virtanen make the team?  

 

I'd say these players are locks to be on the team (not in any particular order)

Sedin-Sedin-Eriksson

Granlund-Sutter-Baertschi

Horvat-Dorsett-open

open-open-open

 

That leaves 4 spots open for Goldobin, Boeser, Virtanen, Cassels, Gaunce or whoever else makes an impression at camp.  

[Nucktika]

6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Don't think Rodin or Cassels will ever make the NHL, but hey, prove me wrong. 

 

I could certainly see this 5th overall 2017 pick splitting time with Horvat as our 2 top centers, with Sutter taking a back seat at the 3rd line spot and Henrik and Daniel slowly but surely retiring from the 2nd to 3rd to 4th line over the next year or two.

 

The wingers will probably get rotated all over the place. Baertschi and Granlund look like locks for a good little while (as long as they're not traded). Goldobin and Dahlen will have to prove themselves but should realistically be top-9 forwards on our team for a while. Boeser looks untouchable as a top-6 winger for the next decade. That's 5 out of the 6 top-9 winger spots secured. Throw in a UFA (eg. Eriksson for now...) or wild-card sort of player who really impresses at training camp (eg. Megna, Labate, Virtanen, Boucher) and there's not much room to move there. Our forwards are starting to really take shape and there's not much else we need. A bit more size and grit in the bottom-6 would be nice, but that's where guys like Sutter, Virtanen and Gaunce really need to step up.

Rodin made the NHL last season before being injured. Cassels the sky is the limit. 

[lmm]

18 hours ago, Nucktika said:

there are generally 5 players on the lice. Grit can come from the back end. Grit doesn't mean you have to fight your opponents. Maintaining possession. playing a high IQ game can make it tough for opponents. A mobile blue line adds to that formula as well. players like Bo, Cody Glass (if drafted) Loui, Boeser, among others are strong on their skates. The suggested pieces doesn't include all prospects and potential future acquisitions.

The Canucks, last season, were the smallest, most injured team in the league, and they were second worst.

A trip through Cali, Edmonton and Toronto could see Jason Megna back on the top line.

As Matt Martin proved last year, sometimes you do have to fight.

[homersexual]

18 hours ago, 6string said:

Both Linden and Benning have a very clear and precise vision for the future, ya got to give em credit for being decisive and not flip flopping on concepts.

 

Speed and quickness with a high hockey IQ, the Lucic or Pronger North to South power style players are diminishing in the minds management. I'm betting Linden and Benning are on the right path to success.

Totally disagree on this.

 

Already 3 years in and just now are they starting the 'rebuild'. Should of started 3 yrs ago when he arrived. I feel like Benning wasted the last two years, instead, they tried to 'make the playoff'. Signing guy like Eriksson, Miller. etc on long term contracts... Do we really know if Markstrom is a #1 goalie? Drafting McCann, Forsling and trading them trying to make the team compete today instead of 2-3 yrs from now.

 

Benning wanted to sign Lucic. Can you imagine Lucic @ 6mil/year on this team? Luckily Lucic said no.

 

 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

The Canucks pretty much had an AHL quality roster last year and if the team is actually going to embrace a rebuild this year, why couldn't Cassels or Virtanen make the team? 

Oh I agree, for the last two years I've been complaining about how our line-up isn't even close to good enough for the NHL.

 

But, Cassels is a career-ECHL'er and Virtanen isn't much better.  Cassels is so far from being NHL-ready it isn't even funny.  And, it looks like there's about a 0% chance he'll ever make it.  And Virtanen can't even handle the AHL right now.  20 year old lottery-picks who can't handle the AHL (years after being drafted) almost never become NHL stars. 

 

People around here think these guys are going to be sure-fire stars in the NHL, but of course, these are the same people who thought Shinkaruk/Jensen/White/McCann/Shirokov/Koltsov/Connauton/etc... were all going to be can't-miss stars too.

 

To have a good team in the NHL, you need players who are better than average at their position.  We need 3rd liners who are the best 3rd liners in the league (if we want to win anything).  Same with every other line.  Cassels and Virtanen are so far below average 3rd or 4th line NHL quality it isn't even funny.  Which, of course, explains why both of them are in the AHL right now.  And, they aren't even good by AHL standards.  The average AHL'er (who plays their positions) is a lot better than they are.

 

So, yeah, if Cassels and Virtanen are good enough to make our team this year - that means our team is worse than most AHL teams.

[Nucktika]

43 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Oh I agree, for the last two years I've been complaining about how our line-up isn't even close to good enough for the NHL.

 

But, Cassels is a career-ECHL'er and Virtanen isn't much better.  Cassels is so far from being NHL-ready it isn't even funny.  And, it looks like there's about a 0% chance he'll ever make it.  And Virtanen can't even handle the AHL right now.  20 year old lottery-picks who can't handle the AHL (years after being drafted) almost never become NHL stars. 

 

People around here think these guys are going to be sure-fire stars in the NHL, but of course, these are the same people who thought Shinkaruk/Jensen/White/McCann/Shirokov/Koltsov/Connauton/etc... were all going to be can't-miss stars too.

 

To have a good team in the NHL, you need players who are better than average at their position.  We need 3rd liners who are the best 3rd liners in the league (if we want to win anything).  Same with every other line.  Cassels and Virtanen are so far below average 3rd or 4th line NHL quality it isn't even funny.  Which, of course, explains why both of them are in the AHL right now.  And, they aren't even good by AHL standards.  The average AHL'er (who plays their positions) is a lot better than they are.

 

So, yeah, if Cassels and Virtanen are good enough to make our team this year - that means our team is worse than most AHL teams.

i like to think that if a person has the will & desire & works on their craft they can accomplish whatever. 0% chance of someone succeeding is a pessimistic way to look at things.  i think people around here believe in this team and support its players, believing they can make it to the big show with hard work and determination. 

[cdubuya]

nux have had an abundance of great complimentary players over the years. I think the problem is they've been lacking elite talent.

[6string]

4 hours ago, homersexual said:

Totally disagree on this.

 

Already 3 years in and just now are they starting the 'rebuild'. Should of started 3 yrs ago when he arrived. I feel like Benning wasted the last two years, instead, they tried to 'make the playoff'. Signing guy like Eriksson, Miller. etc on long term contracts... Do we really know if Markstrom is a #1 goalie? Drafting McCann, Forsling and trading them trying to make the team compete today instead of 2-3 yrs from now.

 

Benning wanted to sign Lucic. Can you imagine Lucic @ 6mil/year on this team? Luckily Lucic said no.

 

 

You neglected to address the Gillis mop up job both Trevor and Jim had to fix that was first in the order of business, that took two seasons to re-tool.

 

As I've posted many times here, in year three we get to grade Linden's and Benning's performance anything before that was far too soon as the Gillis left overs were a mess.

[JamesB]

23 hours ago, khay said:

For next season, I don't think Cassels and Lockwood aren't going to be on the team.

 

1st line: Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser. A line of driver (Horvat), skilled playmaker (Baertschi), and sniper (Boeser). This can be a pretty good first line in few years and it would be a good idea to let them develop chemistry right away.

 

2nd line: Sedin-Sedin-Goldobin. With first line duties off of their shoulders, it will be interesting to see what they can do. Goldobin showed that he is an intelligent player who knew where to go when playing with the Sedins. And personally, thought he complimented the Sedins even better than Granlund. However, this line can be a defensive liability when matched against a faster opponent line. If Goldobin doesn't come to camp ready and Rodin shows up healthy and ready, that could create an opening for Rodin to slot in instead of Goldobin.

 

3rd line: Granlund-Sutter-Eriksson. Very balanced line. Defensively dependable and has enough skill to generate offence.

 

4th line: Up for grabs. I really can't imagine what is going to happen here. All 3 spots are up for grabs. Will be interesting to see what JB does to build up a capable, gritty 4th line to make up for lack of grit on the 1st to 3rd lines.

 

I have the same top nine and the same lines. As for the 4th line, Dorsett will be on it (assuming he recovers from surgery) but I agree that the other two spots have a lot of contenders for them. And Dorsett provides some desperately needed toughness.

 

As for the OP, the players described might say nice things (i.e. they are complimentary). But, as for filling a useful secondary role on the team (complementary), I very much doubt that Rodin or Cassels will ever make it. Dahlen is a good prospect but is unlikely to be ready next year. Lockwood is a longshot to ever make it, although he has a chance. And I am reluctant to revisit the Virtanen argument but forwards do not often go from 19 pts (0.29 PPG) for a near-full season in the AHL to being useful players in the NHL the following year, especially if their defensive abilities are only mediocre. 

[Dannydog]

5 hours ago, 6string said:

You neglected to address the Gillis mop up job both Trevor and Jim had to fix that was first in the order of business, that took two seasons to re-tool.

 

As I've posted many times here, in year three we get to grade Linden's and Benning's performance anything before that was far too soon as the Gillis left overs were a mess.

Overlooked by many, unfortunately

[DownUndaCanuck]

6 hours ago, cdubuya said:

nux have had an abundance of great complimentary players over the years. I think the problem is they've been lacking elite talent.

I think this is it. The one time we had elite talent (Sedins and Kesler in their prime), we had some good complementary players (Raymond, Torres) but really not enough to win the Cup. Our 4th line in 2011 was terrible (Glass lol).

 

These last couple of years we've had the opposite - great complementary players, some deep 3rd and 4th lines about 2 years ago but the elite talent has dropped off as the twins have gotten older.

 

In the future, it looks like we'll have that depth with so many skilled wingers. We're thin at center though, but realistically if we bunt a top center and 2 top defencemen in and drop everyone down the depth charts, we'll have quality and quantity. For example, Hutton and Gudbranson are decent defencemen but not elite talent, however if we can draft a top guy on defence in 2018 and pick up another through a trade or UFA, those guys end up being 3rd pairing defencemen and pretty damn good ones.

[Nucktika]

4 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think this is it. The one time we had elite talent (Sedins and Kesler in their prime), we had some good complementary players (Raymond, Torres) but really not enough to win the Cup. Our 4th line in 2011 was terrible (Glass lol).

 

These last couple of years we've had the opposite - great complementary players, some deep 3rd and 4th lines about 2 years ago but the elite talent has dropped off as the twins have gotten older.

 

In the future, it looks like we'll have that depth with so many skilled wingers. We're thin at center though, but realistically if we bunt a top center and 2 top defencemen in and drop everyone down the depth charts, we'll have quality and quantity. For example, Hutton and Gudbranson are decent defencemen but not elite talent, however if we can draft a top guy on defence in 2018 and pick up another through a trade or UFA, those guys end up being 3rd pairing defencemen and pretty damn good ones.

agreed. I think we are one elite center and elite D away from true contention. Good gritty bottom forwards are abundant via free agency or trade. I still believe the Sedins to be elite 2nd liners at this point. I see Juolevi as a future top pairing D. Kid has high hockey IQ and ability to drive plays. He was definitely the right pick last year.