Ben Kuzma: Rebuilding Canucks Want Miller, Won’t Shop Tanev Or Edler

[Pete M]

5 hours ago, Baggins said:

If the energetic player was Kass you must have missed all the problems he had. He had been a problem here and already been through rehab. He had no trade value. I cannot believe anybody is still going on about this guy.

 

As it stands - Edler, Sbisa, and Hutton on the left and Tanev, Gudbranson, and Stecher on the right. Juolevi, and others in the wings.

 

Did you think this team was suddenly going to get young and competitive overnight starting with no prospect pool to speak of? This team hasn't been competitive because of moving out vets and inserting inexperienced youth. It's not like our youth is all 1st overall picks that will step in and make an immediate impact. They need time to grow. Playing with veterans will help that process.

The Canucks let their players who were reaching their prime go and did not replace them with players who were reaching their prime...they kept the old guys and brought in more...3rd and 2nd to last was the result.

 

The possible trade of Tanev or the loss of Sbisa and Tram walking will affect this D core. Unless, they bring in a competent UFA , which they should have done in 2014/15 rather than sign Miller, or one or two of the Utica "D" prospects step up

[Pete M]

5 hours ago, Baggins said:

Tell that to Hossa and Thomas. There's plenty of others.

Hossa being a vet and Kane, Toews, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, etc being in their prime...need to see the whole picture in order to make a championship team.

[ABNuck]

On 2017-05-25 at 7:10 PM, Warhippy said:

Next years supposed "deep draft" vs this years ultra rare expansion draft where almost every team will need a D after drives their value up now to the tpoint where top 10 picks are almost a certainty when you think of who has one and their need for D.

 

Maximum value!

 

While this years top 10 might not yield a pure generational franchise defining talent, it will certainly yield a player(s) that win you cups in the long run.  That's the kind of talent or opportunity a team with little to no significant skilled depth can pass up knowing Edler is long in the tooth and by the time we're competing Tanev will be in his 30's

 

 

This right here is why GM's are buying extra cellphone minutes for June 22nd. When the dust settles on June 21st, and some GM's have lost 1 of their Top 4 Dmen to LVGK...they'll gladly dishup a 1st for Tanev (and Edler if he'll waive)...we could have 3 top 10 picks come June 23rd. Not a particularly deep draft this year in terms of the top 2 or 3, but it balances out nicely with any other typical draft year once you hit the rest of the top 10...so why not take advantage of the expansion draft to load up on talent? A one in 3 shot that you'll draft that future star/1st liner to finally build around...

[messier's_elbow]

If JB pulls off getting the 3rd overall for Tanev + and keeps the 5th overall as well and we get Vilardi and Makar, we would have a top 3 prospect pool in the league. I'd definitely be seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now it's looking pretty bleak.

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

The Canucks let their players who were reaching their prime go and did not replace them with players who were reaching their prime...they kept the old guys and brought in more...3rd and 2nd to last was the result.

 

The possible trade of Tanev or the loss of Sbisa and Tram walking will affect this D core. Unless, they bring in a competent UFA , which they should have done in 2014/15 rather than sign Miller, or one or two of the Utica "D" prospects step up

Actually we were in the playoff hunt until injuries to those veterans started piling up. You should pay more attention. What players reaching their prime were let go? None that I can think of that had any real impact.

 

I have my doubt Sbisa will be taken in the ED. There's better options out there. Boucher is the more likely target. As much as I'm in favor of trading Tanev, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

Hossa being a vet and Kane, Toews, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, etc being in their prime...need to see the whole picture in order to make a championship team.

Yes you do. Meaning your blanket statement that older players don't win cups is dead wrong. It takes a team regardless of age. Older vets are often a part, sometimes a key part, of a championship team.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 5/30/2017 at 2:24 AM, Baggins said:

Markstrom  .910 S%

Miller  .914 S%

 

Who crapped the bed more? Now here's an interesting thing about their stats. Miller had a higher GAA than Marstrom yet had a much better S%. What that tells me is the team played much more defensively in front of Markstrom, far fewer shots allowed, than they did Miller. You could conclude they had more faith in Miller making the save because they took more risks with him in net. What would Miller's S% look like if the team defended as tightly for him as they did when Marky was in net?

Hate those stats - as a goalie I can say that both are more team based and don't reflect quality of chances, the defensive play in front of you (that you correctly point out) and the situations you are put into.   I am not sure they had "more faith" in Miller but for the last 20 games or so of the season when Miller played bulk of the games, one could argue the Canucks had the worst NHL lineup in the entire league and so if you are having multiple odd man rushes and crap dzone coverage, those stats will balloon no matter how good you are.

 

Markstrom has all the tools to be an elite goalie but has yet to emerge as such.   Will he?   Not sure as I see some body positioning in him that indicates he is often trying to hard to find the puck versus letting the puck find him - the latter approach the key to all the greats.   Acrobatic saves are great for highlight reels but the greats were the ones that were sound positionally and just were "there" for puck irrespective of angle of shot, traffic in front etc.   Markstrom just doesn't seem to be "there" quite yet from what I see but I would be happy to be proven wrong.

[Pete M]

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

Actually we were in the playoff hunt until injuries to those veterans started piling up. You should pay more attention. What players reaching their prime were let go? None that I can think of that had any real impact.

 

I have my doubt Sbisa will be taken in the ED. There's better options out there. Boucher is the more likely target. As much as I'm in favor of trading Tanev, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Yes you do. Meaning your blanket statement that older players don't win cups is dead wrong. It takes a team regardless of age. Older vets are often a part, sometimes a key part, of a championship team.

Sure vets help but having too many old guys like the Canucks had doesn't...results don't lie, and old guys are have more risk to injury.

Kassian, Matthais, Richardson together brought energy and a physical presence that helped the team succeed. It wasn't any of them as individuals, rather it was them together as the 3rd line that helped the team make the playoffs (energy, size, physical play, and speed). The third line, at times, were the only line going for stretches of several games. They put the team on their backs for those stretches. Sedins, Burrows, Hansen, Higgins, etc. benefited from their play but did not contribute much on the score board during those stretches.

 

When they were let go, they got rid of size, physical presence, intimidation and energy. Nothing since then has replaced what they've brought. The line was an important part to the team success. Since they've left, the team has finished 2nd and 3rd to last place....and yeah, the old guys got injured because they were played more and are more susceptible to injury. You need more players in their prime than old players who are past their prime...the team's age structure the last two years was/ is bad. 

Sedins need to retire at the end of the next season and players who are in their prime need to take their place (like it or not, EK would be one of those players and TJ Oshie would be another).

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Pete M said:

Sure vets help but having too many old guys like the Canucks had doesn't...results don't lie, and old guys are have more risk to injury.

Kassian, Matthais, Richardson together brought energy and a physical presence that helped the team succeed. It wasn't any of them as individuals, rather it was them together as the 3rd line that helped the team make the playoffs (energy, size, physical play, and speed). The third line, at times, were the only line going for stretches of several games. They put the team on their backs for those stretches. Sedins, Burrows, Hansen, Higgins, etc. benefited from their play but did not contribute much on the score board during those stretches.

 

When they were let go, they got rid of size, physical presence, intimidation and energy. Nothing since then has replaced what they've brought. The line was an important part to the team success. Since they've left, the team has finished 2nd and 3rd to last place....and yeah, the old guys got injured because they were played more and are more susceptible to injury. You need more players in their prime than old players who are past their prime...the team's age structure the last two years was/ is bad. 

Sedins need to retire at the end of the next season and players who are in their prime need to take their place (like it or not, EK would be one of those players and TJ Oshie would be another).

Is there not the problem with guys like Kane and Oshie making us just improved enough to finish in the middle though?  I would heat to try and speed up the rebuild, and get stuck in the middle like we have done (excepting the Twins peak years) forever?

[Pete M]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Is there not the problem with guys like Kane and Oshie making us just improved enough to finish in the middle though?  I would heat to try and speed up the rebuild, and get stuck in the middle like we have done (excepting the Twins peak years) forever?

Both those guys are coming into their prime in the next three years along with a young group, led by Horvat, that are fast, and skilled. A player like LE would benefit from them and may become more effective. The right blend of players could create something good in short order...right now, however, the Sedins and their cap are taking up roster spots and resources to make it happen. In addition, if they pick up a good UFA "D" man...boom, the team is back in competing for a playoff spot and possibly be a contender.

Markstrom, however, needs to play the way he did when he took the Comets to the Calder cup final.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Pete M said:

Both those guys are coming into their prime in the next three years along with a young group, led by Horvat, that is fast, and skilled. A player like LE would benefit from them and may become more effective. The right blend of players could create something good in short order...right now, however, the Sedins and their cap are taking up roster spots and resources to make it happen. In addition, if they pick up a good UFA "D" man...boom, the team is back in competing for a playoff spot and possibly be a contender.

Markstrom, however, needs to play the way he did when he took the Comets to the Calder cup final.

What about our D core though?  We don't exactly shine back there, especially with Tanev gone.  

[Pete M]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What about our D core though?  We don't exactly shine back there, especially with Tanev gone.  

The "D" looks like a problem area again, especially if they trade Tanev.

Like I said, they need to pick up "D" by way of UFAs and possibly one or two Utica prospects will step up their game and become valuable players on the back end.

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Pete M said:

The "D" looks like a problem area again, especially if they trade Tanev.

Like I said, they need to pick up "D" by way of UFAs and possibly one or two Utica prospects will step up their game and become valuable players on the back end.

How good are the Nashville D?  We need a super D if we want to compete without having Crosby and Malkin type players up front.  I really believe we need to allow our team to struggle for a couple more years, and pick top five.  Then, when the rebuild is complete those young guys will mature together into a more competitive team than if we bring in 25 year olds now.  Just me though:)

[bp79]

11 hours ago, ice orca said:

Shoot yourself..it's quicker.

I get jokes like that are meant to be funny. Being that both my brothers blew their brains out, and my Dad in his grief jumped into the red river. Me personally doesn't bother me. Some people here might try to get you in $&!#. Even tho you had no way of knowing what is in my past or someone else's. That being said it would be easier and quicker lol.