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Ben Kuzma: Rebuilding Canucks Want Miller, Won’t Shop Tanev Or Edler


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23 minutes ago, Nucktika said:

If Goldobin  was in this years draft, chances are he would be a top 3 pick. Debatebly a 1 or 2 draft pick. Hansen got you that prospect. Burrows got you Dahlen, who most people would pick ahead of the popular Vilardi or Glass among others. Why trade a premium D product for anything less.

As much as I like those 2 players, I'm not sure what you're basing those "chances" on - Goldobin was the number 24 ranked North American skater in the Final Central Scouting Ranking in his draft year. Using their draft years, I wouldn't pick Goldobin or Dahlen over Hischier, Patrick, Mittelstadt, Heiskanen, Liljegren and possibly Makar.

 

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1 minute ago, JamesB said:

 

I would like to believe this, but I don't. Benning has shown no inclination to rebuild. From day 1 he has been all about trying to win now. He started by trading draft picks for older prospects and veterans in order to win now. He signed veteran UFAs like Miller and Vrbata and, more recently, Eriksson. He traded away a young player and a high second round pick for Guddy, etc. I am not arguing whether those moves were good moves or bad moves in terms of improving current performance. But they were all about "win now".

 

And he justified those moves just like he is justifying his current plan -- by saying it is important to develop young players in a winning environment -- now dialed back to playing on a team that is "competitive".

 

Even his final willingness to trade vets at the deadline this year (Burrows and Hansen) only came when the team had no chance of contending for a playoff spot and he had been roasted for not making trades the previous year (or the year before). And even this year, he picked up prospects who are close to playing in the NHL rather than draft picks. I like both acquisitions (Goldobin and Dahlen) but, once again, Benning is trying to speed up the clock.

 

So I don't believe Benning is playing any kind of negotiation game. He has shown no inclination to do that so far and he just seems to have no interest in strategic thinking of that type, even when it comes to negotiating contracts.

 

I think Benning just wants to win as much as possible next year. I don't think Tanev or Edler will be traded. Linden has said the team is not trading away any more draft picks, but I think Benning would still be happy to trade away picks as part of deals to get veteran players (as with the Guddy and Sutter trades). However, I don't expect that to happen as I like Linden wants a genuine rebuild and he has said that the team will not be trading away more draft picks.

 

I hope I am wrong and Benning pulls of a trade of Edler and/or Tanev and is able to add in maybe 3 really high potential draft picks this year. But I don't see it happening.

Linden did use the "rebuild" term after this season, but that's just words.  We need to see actions too. 

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54 minutes ago, Nucktika said:

Actually i would take Edler and Gaunce over a first round pick in a weak draft for a prospect that has a higher probability of not panning out. If you are going to trade Edler, hedge you bet by trading him for an established young Nhler/high end prospect plus draft pick(s). Most teams would offer up their 1st round draft pick this year for Edler if Vancouver is dumb enough to make that move.

I'm tired of hearing about how "weak" this draft is. BS! Just because it doesn't have a McDavid or Matthews headlining it, doesn't mean there won't be lots of good players available. Honestly, since when has drafting been a sure thing? How many top 5 picks have we seen fail? How many #1 picks have we seen fail?! The draft is an absolute crap shoot and no one can honestly tell me that they know how a player is going to develop, let alone a whole draft class! It's complete BS. People need to stop pretending like they know how these kids are going to develop. 

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3 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

I would like to believe this, but I don't. Benning has shown no inclination to rebuild. From day 1 he has been all about trying to win now. He started by trading draft picks for older prospects and veterans in order to win now. He signed veteran UFAs like Miller and Vrbata and, more recently, Eriksson. He traded away a young player and a high second round pick for Guddy, etc. I am not arguing whether those moves were good moves or bad moves in terms of improving current performance. But they were all about "win now".

 

And he justified those moves just like he is justifying his current plan -- by saying it is important to develop young players in a winning environment -- now dialed back to playing on a team that is "competitive".

 

Even his final willingness to trade vets at the deadline this year (Burrows and Hansen) only came when the team had no chance of contending for a playoff spot and he had been roasted for not making trades the previous year (or the year before). And even this year, he picked up prospects who are close to playing in the NHL rather than draft picks. I like both acquisitions (Goldobin and Dahlen) but, once again, Benning is trying to speed up the clock.

 

So I don't believe Benning is playing any kind of negotiation game. He has shown no inclination to do that so far and he just seems to have no interest in strategic thinking of that type, even when it comes to negotiating contracts.

 

I think Benning just wants to win as much as possible next year. I don't think Tanev or Edler will be traded. Linden has said the team is not trading away any more draft picks, but I think Benning would still be happy to trade away picks as part of deals to get veteran players (as with the Guddy and Sutter trades). However, I don't expect that to happen as I like Linden wants a genuine rebuild and he has said that the team will not be trading away more draft picks.

 

I hope I am wrong and Benning pulls of a trade of Edler and/or Tanev and is able to add in maybe 3 really high potential draft picks this year. But I don't see it happening.

I would be very surprised if Benning traded picks for veteran help (he would be lambasted for that if he did)....but I do get the feeling that he wants to hang on to the vets he already has.....

 

I don't think he's dialled back the rebuild,but it sounds like he's not accelerating it either.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Honky Cat said:

I would be very surprised if Benning traded picks for veteran help (he would be lambasted for that if he did)....but I do get the feeling that he wants to hang on to the vets he already has.....

 

I don't think he's dialled back the rebuild,but it sounds like he's not accelerating it either.

 

 

Again, it sounds like JB is trying to accomplish two goals at one time: win with his current core, while adding the odd new piece.  The arena will be empty if fans are again forced to watch the same old, stale core go out and lose. 

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if you don't trade elder assets for youth, you are not rebuilding.  Your "rebuilt" team is less than one that has gone through a true rebuild.   I mean if we had a superstar player already, then sure... but we don't.   We are nowhere near contending.  

 

you have to give young players a shot, and see what you have....  this isn't being done.  Total incompetence?  Or concern for job security?   You know the answer.....  funny that fear of losing your job leads to actions that guarantee your tenure will be short

 

 

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13 minutes ago, JamesB said:

And even this year, he picked up prospects who are close to playing in the NHL rather than draft picks. I like both acquisitions (Goldobin and Dahlen) but, once again, Benning is trying to speed up the clock.

 

So I don't believe Benning is playing any kind of negotiation game. He has shown no inclination to do that so far and he just seems to have no interest in strategic thinking of that type, even when it comes to negotiating contracts.

Strategically thinking...isn't a better asset move to limit uncertainty by acquiring assets that are more likely to play significant roles in the future than draft picks in a weak year. We are talking about a 19 & 21yr old that will likely be part of the long term Canuck future to 18yr draft pick choice this year. Isn't the idea to maximize your return when possible

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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Again, it sounds like JB is trying to accomplish two goals at one time: win with his current core, while adding the odd new piece.  The arena will be empty if fans are again forced to watch the same old, stale core go out and lose. 

The 'stale core' is pretty much gone (Edler,Twins are left)....but the arena will be even more empty if were down 3-0 before the end of every first period...I don't think Benning wants to launch his 'mentorship' group into orbit just yet.

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1 minute ago, Honky Cat said:

The 'stale core' is pretty much gone (Edler,Twins are left)....but the arena will be even more empty if were down 3-0 before the end of every first period...I don't think Benning wants to launch his 'mentorship' group into orbit just yet.

Thats exactly my point.  Those old guys are the stale core.  Then we added Errikson, who is stale too.  Our youth need meaningful minutes.  Where are they going to play?  

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1 minute ago, canucksnihilist said:

You can't cheat time....

And you can't cheat rebuilding.  This doing things half way is likely extending the rebuilding time you are talking about not cheating.   Do you not remember this team's history before the Twins?

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Thats exactly my point.  Those old guys are the stale core.  Then we added Errikson, who is stale too.  Our youth need meaningful minutes.  Where are they going to play?  

On the positive side..WD is not the coach anymore,so the coaches allegiance to the vets is done..Green is a different cat,..If they are not pulling their weight,they will sit..It has to be merit based...

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17 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

I'm tired of hearing about how "weak" this draft is. BS! Just because it doesn't have a McDavid or Matthews headlining it, doesn't mean there won't be lots of good players available. Honestly, since when has drafting been a sure thing? How many top 5 picks have we seen fail? How many #1 picks have we seen fail?! The draft is an absolute crap shoot and no one can honestly tell me that they know how a player is going to develop, let alone a whole draft class! It's complete BS. People need to stop pretending like they know how these kids are going to develop. 

glad you said that "... since when has drafting been a sure thing? ...The draft is an absolute crap shoot and no one can honestly tell me that they know how a player is going to develop, let alone a whole draft class! ... People need to stop pretending like they know how these kids are going to develop". Why increase the uncertainty by trading established players for the sake of change. At least trade in an up market for a higher probability of better return than in a down market. 

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1 minute ago, Stelar said:

Imagine the amount of times  Miller will be shaking his head at the 2017-18 Canuck team.  

To Miller's credit he did stand up for Stecher, and he did help out Goldobin.  I wonder if Miller is a better leader than guys like Sutter?

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15 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

I would like to believe this, but I don't. Benning has shown no inclination to rebuild. From day 1 he has been all about trying to win now. He started by trading draft picks for older prospects and veterans in order to win now. He signed veteran UFAs like Miller and Vrbata and, more recently, Eriksson. He traded away a young player and a high second round pick for Guddy, etc. I am not arguing whether those moves were good moves or bad moves in terms of improving current performance. But they were all about "win now".

 

And he justified those moves just like he is justifying his current plan -- by saying it is important to develop young players in a winning environment -- now dialed back to playing on a team that is "competitive".

 

Even his final willingness to trade vets at the deadline this year (Burrows and Hansen) only came when the team had no chance of contending for a playoff spot and he had been roasted for not making trades the previous year (or the year before). And even this year, he picked up prospects who are close to playing in the NHL rather than draft picks. I like both acquisitions (Goldobin and Dahlen) but, once again, Benning is trying to speed up the clock.

 

So I don't believe Benning is playing any kind of negotiation game. He has shown no inclination to do that so far and he just seems to have no interest in strategic thinking of that type, even when it comes to negotiating contracts.

 

I think Benning just wants to win as much as possible next year. I don't think Tanev or Edler will be traded. Linden has said the team is not trading away any more draft picks, but I think Benning would still be happy to trade away picks as part of deals to get veteran players (as with the Guddy and Sutter trades). However, I don't expect that to happen as I like Linden wants a genuine rebuild and he has said that the team will not be trading away more draft picks.

 

I hope I am wrong and Benning pulls of a trade of Edler and/or Tanev and is able to add in maybe 3 really high potential draft picks this year. But I don't see it happening.

I don't agree with your assessment. With Benning moving roughly 80% of the roster the last 3 years indicates that he's been well aware of the need to rebuild. Gudbranson and Miller were never "win now" moves. Miller was brought on to provide some stability (and a veteran presence) in net while this team gets younger. Guddy was acquired to bring solid play and physicality, with the expectation of peaking when the Canucks are contenders again, around 5 years from now. Eriksson and Vrbata I see as more business moves, 2 offensive players to generate excitement with the intention of boosting season ticket sales.

 

If there was an expectation of competing for a playoff spot these first 3 years, then that would've come from ownership rather than Benning. What GM would purposefully put pressure on himself if he doesn't have to? If ownership hired him with the job of rebuilding, why not go along with it and have the pressure off of him for a few years while he builds the team? It doesn't make sense to do otherwise. He only said it because he had to, to keep ownership happy.

 

Jim obviously wants to rebuild, but wants to show that he's not desperate to move vets, and that is where this article comes in. Your statement that JB would love to move picks doesn't make sense, it's completely at odds with what he's been doing.

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The management has no faith in the young players.   What a joke.  Mark storm is 27... how is that throwing him to the wolves?  What he has to wait until he is 35 to be a starter????   Idiocy.

 

really... tanev and elder and miller... gave us 29th in the league.   How is that maintaining a competitive environment????   Huh?   I don't mind some dev in Utica...   but at some point you have to see what you have.  Have faith in the coaching staff that they won't misuse and throw young players to the wolves.... some people actually call it "opportunity"... imagine that!  Weird I know....

 

cant cheat time.... meaning that taking a shortcut to a rebuild ends up failing...  you get an inferior result.  If a drafted player has 5 years to show potential, any one of those years they may do it.   If you get a player halfway through who still isn't an NHL regular, you just have half the chance of that player making it compared to a player you draft.... how is that better???   

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And you can't cheat rebuilding.  This doing things half way is likely extending the rebuilding time you are talking about not cheating.   Do you not remember this team's history before the Twins?

Yup... sad day..  JB and linden won't last... this market wants a rebuild and will buy tickets to see it.   But not a stale old core again...

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