J.I.A.H.N Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 First, I am not advocating trading away anyone we can not replace......period! Secondly, We are not in a position to be a mediocre team at the 2018 draft. We are in a serious rebuild and are 2 more drafts, after this one, before we have the necessary pieces to compete in 3 to 5 years, so buckle up buttercup, because we are in for a bumpy ride for a year or 2. Thirdly, there is absolutely no reason to retain Miller....absolutely none! The only thing that could happen is a short resurgence by Miller, the Sedin's and Eriksson, which could move us just far enough away from the top 5 to hinder our goal of a elite player, and as is so commonly pointed out here, Stanley Cup Champions have 2 or 3 elite players on their teams, and until someone jumps up and reaches higher, we have none. I offer you this......................... Replaceable Veterans Signings 1. Tanev...................................sign Shattenkirk to a 3 yr. contract at 8.5 million per year contract........NTC in year 1, LNT in year 2, and no clause in year 3 2. Edler.....................................sign Alzner to a 3 yr. contract at 6.5 million per year contract...............NTC in 1st year, LNT in year 2, and no clause in year 3 3. Sutter....................................sign Bonino to a 2 yr. contract at 2.75 million per year contract............no clauses Trades Deal Replacing 2017 7th 188th OA for Niemi at 50% + 2017 - 3rd 70th OA.....................................................Miller to Niemi - 3.75 million Tanev to Buffalo for 2017 1st 8th OA...................................................................................Tanev to Shattenkirk + 4 million Edler to Dallas for Dallas 2017 1st - 29th OA + Dallas 2017 2nd - 39 OA ........................Edler to Alzner + 1.5 million Sutter to Edmonton for Edmonton's 2017 3rd - 84th OA + 2017 4th - 115 OA ........................Sutter to Bonino - 1.5 million Current 2017 Draft Picks 1st........5th OA.....................................picks Valardi, Mettlestadt,Glass 1st........8th OA.....................................picks Heiskanen, Liljegren, Maker, Necas 1st......29th OA (ANA)..........................picks Anderson-Doan, Lind, Ratcliffe, Timmons 2nd.....33rd OA....................................picks Oettinger, Luukkonen 2nd.....39th OA (Dallas).......................picks Bowers, Joseph, Salo 2nd.....55th OA (Columbus).................BPA 3rd......64th OA.....................................BPA 3rd......70th OA (Dallas).......................Entwistle 3rd......84th OA (Edm)..........................BPA 4th......95th OA.....................................BPA 4th....112th OA.....................................BPA 4th....115th OA.....................................BPA Now from what I have heard this draft has no "Generational Players" which make it different than the past 2 drafts, but the top 100 are about the same as every other draft, which makes this a great draft to acquire extra picks under that "100" player mark. So now you will say that that is too many picks....well Carolina has 11 picks this year, I am suggesting 12 picks for Vancouver. As for the trades, Niemi isn't as good as Miller, but has one year left...Dallas saves 2.5 million...that is worth a 3rd. I think Shattenkirk is equal to Tanev, and the over payment in this cap era. gets him. I think Alzner comes home for 6.5 million, which is a 3.7 million dollar raise. Both defencemen's contracts are over payments which gets them, and both are shorter term contracts, which I would do the same money for 2 year ones if they wanted, but this should give us time to develop our young dmen. Sutter to Edmonton is an upgrade for them, Sutter waives his NTC to move closer to home, and he will be older by the time we start coming around. Bonino is a stop gap, and replaceable anytime, for very little cost. Edmonton's cost is meager, and allows them more a better faceoff man, and more ability to move RNH for another Dman they so need. Benning will have to have a smoke after this draft! He will be tired! lol........just so many options, flipping picks, moving to 2018, up grading a pick, BPA...just so many options! OK....Roast away! PS..................I go back and get Tryamkin.......no matter what the problem was........it could have been fixed.......and just a point of contention for me........Willie wanted him to be tougher, but every time he hit someone, they stayed down........you don't need to fight when you can do that! He would have fought when he had to.......go out and get someone for that if that is your concern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHitman Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 So we trade our top pairing for a couple of picks? Need to get some B level prospects back at least. Unless we're getting Hischier or Patrick I don't see the point of us doing this. Also, how would Washington lose both Shattenkirk and Alzner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 9 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: OK....Roast away! Not gonna roast....wish I had this amount of free time on my hands.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMillerTime Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 People have to remember there is no way Shattenkirk will sign with the Canucks. He turned down Tampa Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckmen84 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 It would be nice to trade players and gain assets and have them replaced right away with UFA's but to do those deals before acquiring those free agents would be a huge risk, it's more likely none of those free agents sign with us at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiCanucks Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Shattenkirk either resigns with Washington or gets a payday from Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, PunjabiCanucks said: Shattenkirk either resigns with Washington or gets a payday from Toronto. Would love it if TO signed him to a MASSIVE deal with NTC then realizes he's overrated - not Gomez overrated, but overrated nevertheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Shattenkirk doesn't want to play in canada he's made it pretty clear that he want's to be in the east coast as close to New York as possible, That's exactly why he turned down trades to both edmonton and Arizona. And for a team that's rebuilding signing a player like is just an expensive stop gap, when you'd get more value out of someone cheaper, and it would give room for a player to grow into a spot. Alzner is going to get paid but he's really not worth that kind of $, not for a team like vancouver. Overall the trades are not bad, i just don't like your UFA replacement signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 47 minutes ago, PunjabiCanucks said: Shattenkirk either resigns with Washington or gets a payday from Toronto. Can TO afford a huge contract for him though, with the big money they will be paying for their other young stars soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 On 2017-06-01 at 7:03 AM, PlanB said: Not gonna roast....wish I had this amount of free time on my hands.... Took a few days off and just had a little time to get my hockey fix.....there are others on here that spend as much time on here. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 23 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Shattenkirk doesn't want to play in canada he's made it pretty clear that he want's to be in the east coast as close to New York as possible, That's exactly why he turned down trades to both edmonton and Arizona. And for a team that's rebuilding signing a player like is just an expensive stop gap, when you'd get more value out of someone cheaper, and it would give room for a player to grow into a spot. Alzner is going to get paid but he's really not worth that kind of $, not for a team like vancouver. Overall the trades are not bad, i just don't like your UFA replacement signings. The reason for trading Edler and Tanev at all is they are replaceable on the open market (UFA's) and this allows us to be able acquire solid assets that match up with our youth movements age grouping......this also addresses the concerns of those that require a larger veteran presence. - It depends if Shattenkirk can be bribed with money.....8.5 is a lot of peso's.......but you could be right, it may not be enough........it may not be about money - The reason are both 3 year contracts, and I would go 2 year contracts if they would go for it, is it gives time for the Canuck prospects to develop and not be pushed into spots that they may not be ready for. - as to why paying so much for Alzner and Shattenkirk is that good Dmen are very rare and an overpayment is require to ensure their services. If you have other players in mind that will keep us with top 2 dmen....by all means....suggest! - I am open to others being signed instead of Alzner and Shattenkirk, but I do feel Vancouver is in a position to over pay where other a lot of other teams will not be able to.....the reason for no clauses in the 3 year is to again, when our prospect are ready, move the Veterans for again, more assets.....(This is what should be done on a regular basis....push the price up on shorter deals on high quality) and trade at the deadlines in their last year of their deals) Do I think this has risk, yes for a couple of years, but since we are down already, this is the time we can afford that risk...................IMO or course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: The reason for trading Edler and Tanev at all is they are replaceable on the open market (UFA's) and this allows us to be able acquire solid assets that match up with our youth movements age grouping......this also addresses the concerns of those that require a larger veteran presence. - It depends if Shattenkirk can be bribed with money.....8.5 is a lot of peso's.......but you could be right, it may not be enough........it may not be about money - The reason are both 3 year contracts, and I would go 2 year contracts if they would go for it, is it gives time for the Canuck prospects to develop and not be pushed into spots that they may not be ready for. - as to why paying so much for Alzner and Shattenkirk is that good Dmen are very rare and an overpayment is require to ensure their services. If you have other players in mind that will keep us with top 2 dmen....by all means....suggest! - I am open to others being signed instead of Alzner and Shattenkirk, but I do feel Vancouver is in a position to over pay where other a lot of other teams will not be able to.....the reason for no clauses in the 3 year is to again, when our prospect are ready, move the Veterans for again, more assets.....(This is what should be done on a regular basis....push the price up on shorter deals on high quality) and trade at the deadlines in their last year of their deals) Do I think this has risk, yes for a couple of years, but since we are down already, this is the time we can afford that risk...................IMO or course! Plus, trading those two d men almost for certain guarantees us a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: The reason for trading Edler and Tanev at all is they are replaceable on the open market (UFA's) and this allows us to be able acquire solid assets that match up with our youth movements age grouping......this also addresses the concerns of those that require a larger veteran presence. No the reason for trading them is to get young assets to speed up the rebuild. I could care less about their replacements. 11 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: - It depends if Shattenkirk can be bribed with money.....8.5 is a lot of peso's.......but you could be right, it may not be enough........it may not be about money Edmonton and Arizona already offered the book at him. He wants to place close to home. 11 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: - The reason are both 3 year contracts, and I would go 2 year contracts if they would go for it, is it gives time for the Canuck prospects to develop and not be pushed into spots that they may not be ready for. - as to why paying so much for Alzner and Shattenkirk is that good Dmen are very rare and an overpayment is require to ensure their services. If you have other players in mind that will keep us with top 2 dmen....by all means....suggest! - I am open to others being signed instead of Alzner and Shattenkirk, but I do feel Vancouver is in a position to over pay where other a lot of other teams will not be able to.....the reason for no clauses in the 3 year is to again, when our prospect are ready, move the Veterans for again, more assets.....(This is what should be done on a regular basis....push the price up on shorter deals on high quality) and trade at the deadlines in their last year of their deals) I wouldn't even worry about replacing them, atleast not with a high expense player. Part of a rebuild is moving room so the young players can grow into a roll. Signing a vet is like the miller situation where the young guy doesn't get the opportunity. 11 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Do I think this has risk, yes for a couple of years, but since we are down already, this is the time we can afford that risk...................IMO or course! Yes we are down, so why sign expensive vets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: No the reason for trading them is to get young assets to speed up the rebuild. I could care less about their replacements. FTG..........As I said "Youth Movement Age Grouping" means exactly that.....but done be fooled to thinking anyone is going to give us a top blue chip prospect for any of our players......I would be ecstatic if they did, but we are going to have to draft them ourselves.......which I know you know! 5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Edmonton and Arizona already offered the book at him. He wants to place close to home. No everyone wants to go to Edmonton or Arizona, as well as both have some cap issues for opposite reasons.......If you don't ask the pretty girl to dance, how do you know she says no? You certainly don't know what her answer is until you ask. 5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I wouldn't even worry about replacing them, atleast not with a high expense player. Part of a rebuild is moving room so the young players can grow into a roll. Signing a vet is like the miller situation where the young guy doesn't get the opportunity. The point in getting high end replacement players is to be able to continue the rebuild past 2 years from now, in an aggressive, build through the draft program, until you have a team and farm team that are full of young NHL players, and young NHL ready Farm Team players...it won't change our positioning too much, just replacing part for part 5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yes we are down, so why sign expensive vets See above! Thanks for your interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: FTG..........As I said "Youth Movement Age Grouping" means exactly that.....but done be fooled to thinking anyone is going to give us a top blue chip prospect for any of our players......I would be ecstatic if they did, but we are going to have to draft them ourselves.......which I know you know! As i said your trades are fine, it's the players you chose for UFA, that make zero sense for vancouver or the players. 7 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: No everyone wants to go to Edmonton or Arizona, as well as both have some cap issues for opposite reasons.......If you don't ask the pretty girl to dance, how do you know she says no? You certainly don't know what her answer is until you ask. But you make moves/trade without knowing that answer. The trades you suggested are all pre draft, the signings can't come till july 1. That's quite the risk you are taking assuming they sign, when they've both came out and stated they have not interest in teams like vancouver. Alzner just said he wasnt to play on a contending team and shattenkirk wants to play close to home, he already turned down Tampa as well. He will be in the new york area. 7 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: The point in getting high end replacement players is to be able to continue the rebuild past 2 years from now, in an aggressive, build through the draft program, until you have a team and farm team that are full of young NHL players, and young NHL ready Farm Team players...it won't change our positioning too much, just replacing part for part But what i'm saying is those are the wrong players to try and sign. You don't need those expensive contracts when you are going to be bottom feeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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