Alflives Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, drummerboy said: Can you explain how he reminds you of a young Forsberg? Other than similar point production, both being skinny as kids, and being Swedish. PF played a power forward/mad bull style game, who was almost impossible to push off the puck because of his strength and size. He had a much different body type than EP as well, and played around or over 210lbs. EP isn't likely to gain another 40 pounds of muscle. Not to mention PF being one of the best players ever. Add to Forsberg that he played a very mean, and nasty game too. Guy was awesome! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Alflives said: Point being a GM, who was a forward thinker, building a Cup level team in the future, and not being satisfied with mediocre. Is our GM thinking the same way? Of course you want a forward thinking GM but you can hardly say Pollock was making moves like this from a mediocre team. He could afford to do these things because they were a Stanley Cup winning team in 1968, 1969, 1973 and were serious contenders in the years they didn't win it. They had unbelievable depth so they were always dealing from a position of strength. Has our GM been in a position of strength to make these deals yet? Can you name me one move that Pollock ever made to make his future team better at the expense of his current team? I know you want to trade very player over the age of 23 and acquire picks with them for a future elite team but I just don't see that as a viable strategy. You need to have an element of veteran leadership to guide the youngsters through their development years. How many of those you need is certainly open to debate and that is where you require an astute GM to make those decisions. Those that don't fit your current and future needs should be moved at the appropriate times. To answer your question "Is our GM thinking the same way?" I would have to answer I believe he is. If he was not looking to the future would he not have drafted the most "NHL ready" players the last couple of years as opposed to drafting Pettersson and Juoleve knowing full well that they would take several years to develop? Look at the initial heat Benning took for taking Pettersson when Glass and Vilardi were still available. They were more physically advanced and NHL ready but Benning was more concerned about "building a Cup level team in the future" as you so eloquently stated. Edited November 19, 2017 by Rick Blight 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: Of course you want a forward thinking GM but you can hardly say Pollock was making moves like this from a mediocre team. He could afford to do these things because they were a Stanley Cup winning team in 1968, 1969, 1973 and were serious contenders in the years they didn't win it. They had unbelievable depth so they were always dealing from a position of strength. Has our GM been in a position of strength to make these deals yet? Can you name me one move that Pollock ever made to make his future team better at the expense of his current team? I know you want to trade very player over the age of 23 and acquire picks with them for a future elite team but I just don't see that as a viable strategy. You need to have an element of veteran leadership to to guide the youngsters through their development years. How many of those you need is certainly open to debate and that is where you require an astute GM to make those decisions. Those that don't fit your current and future needs should be moved at the appropriate times. To answer your question "Is our GM thinking the same way?" I would have to answer I believe he is. If he was not looking to the future would he not have drafted the most "NHL ready" players the last couple of years as opposed to drafting Pettersson and Juoleve knowing full well that they would take several years to develop? Look at the initial heat Benning took for taking Pettersson when Glass and Vilardi were still available. They were more physically advanced and NHL ready but Benning was more concerned about "building a Cup level team in the future" as you so eloquently stated. I don't want trade any player, who will be part of a future Cup team, regardless of their age. I do, however, want to trade all players who will not be part of a future Cup level team, and get picks in return. This, of course, is not done all at once, but over a series of seasons. Players, like the Twins, I don't think should ever be traded. All the rest of the not needed group are gonzo if a team will part with picks for them. Our only really consistent years were the ones led by the Twins, Kesler, and Edler. Players we drafted. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: I don't want trade any player, who will be part of a future Cup team, regardless of their age. I do, however, want to trade all players who will not be part of a future Cup level team, and get picks in return. This, of course, is not done all at once, but over a series of seasons. Players, like the Twins, I don't think should ever be traded. All the rest of the not needed group are gonzo if a team will part with picks for them. Our only really consistent years were the ones led by the Twins, Kesler, and Edler. Players we drafted. is hutton in that cup future do you think? im really curious how our left side d will round out. hmmm.... im not so sure granny is in the long term plans either. what do u think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Rush17 said: is hutton in that cup future do you think? im really curious how our left side d will round out. hmmm.... im not so sure granny is in the long term plans either. what do u think? I like Hutton. He has offensive skills, and size. Plus he's a young dman, with lots of upside. I see Granlund as certainly expendable, and not part of a future Cup team. To me, it depends on the return picks coming back, whether the player is traded. For Hutton, I don't see a team offering the return pick needed to replace his potential. For Granny, I would accept any picks 3rd round and higher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: I don't want trade any player, who will be part of a future Cup team, regardless of their age. I do, however, want to trade all players who will not be part of a future Cup level team, and get picks in return. This, of course, is not done all at once, but over a series of seasons. Players, like the Twins, I don't think should ever be traded. All the rest of the not needed group are gonzo if a team will part with picks for them. Our only really consistent years were the ones led by the Twins, Kesler, and Edler. Players we drafted. The problem is that we don't know when that future Cup team will be here. Why would anyone want to trade a player that will be part of our first ever Cup team? Our future Cup team may be in 3 years or it may be in 30 years, who knows? If it was 3 years from now would you not think it would be because of Bo, Boeser, Pettersson, Juolevi, Gaudette, etc.......all players that we have drafted? If it's 30 years from now then I guess we should trade everyone.......but you and I won't have to worry about that time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, Alflives said: I like Hutton. He has offensive skills, and size. Plus he's a young dman, with lots of upside. I see Granlund as certainly expendable, and not part of a future Cup team. To me, it depends on the return picks coming back, whether the player is traded. For Hutton, I don't see a team offering the return pick needed to replace his potential. For Granny, I would accept any picks 3rd round and higher. Maybe we need to petition the NHL to do away with the draft, go back to signing players we want as early as 14 years old, and then we won't have to fret over trading for picks. Bobby Orr, best player of all-time IMHO, was scouted by Boston as a 12 year old and signed with their organization at age 14. Orr started his professional hockey career young. The Boston Bruins first took notice of him when he was Bobby Orr twelve and playing in a bantam-league hockey All-Star game, to which the Bruins had sent scouts to check on some older players. Orr played all sixty minutes of the game, minus two minutes spent in the penalty box, and already displayed an ability to control the puck and the game that he would later be notable for in his professional career. At the age of fourteen the Boston Bruins signed Orr into their organization for $2,800. Read more: Bobby Orr - The Young Champion - Boston, Hockey, Game, and Bruins - JRank Articles http://sports.jrank.org/pages/3560/Orr-Bobby-Young-Champion.html#ixzz4yuCMUW2p 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 11 hours ago, canuckledraggin said: He's 2 Sedins rolled into one. They're gonna call that right hand faceoff dot the Pettersson spot like the Ovi spot one the left side. The smaller ice will make things tougher, but he's going to unstoppable on the powerplay with boeser on the other side. A future PP1 with Boeser on the left, Pettersson on the right, Horvat in the middle, and one of the top 10 PMDs from this draft with say Juolevi on the point... yes please 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Not possible. They will repeatedly copy-and-paste their talking points ("concerned", "disappointed", "#shouldadraftedthisguy", etc.), even several times per page, as if everyone didn't hear them the first dozen times. I'm not sure you understand the comparison. He was asking if this thread would be the opposite of the virtanen thread, meaning all positive and so far it's trending that way! Pettersson is GOD! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Alflives said: I don't want trade any player, who will be part of a future Cup team, regardless of their age. I do, however, want to trade all players who will not be part of a future Cup level team, and get picks in return. This, of course, is not done all at once, but over a series of seasons. Players, like the Twins, I don't think should ever be traded. All the rest of the not needed group are gonzo if a team will part with picks for them. Our only really consistent years were the ones led by the Twins, Kesler, and Edler. Players we drafted. Well said Alf. Someone earlier gave a list of players he would be willing to trade. My list has no limits. Any player is tradable and should be. It is the GM's call as he builds towards s serious CUP contender. Watching this team from the beginning there has been a tendency to build teams that were 'regular season' teams. Competitive during the season but wilted under CUP play. Quinn changed that leading to '94. That was the best Canuck team in the history of the franchise. Benning is amassing a inventory of talent that could take another CUP run. Way to early to know who in this pool will be part of that roster. It is inevitable that some we think will be there will be traded to get a piece that better fits the group need. That is why I say there is never a 'untradeable' list. I don't want a 'premature' success in the standings to derail the acquisition to the depth of prospects. This is why I hope Benning can pull another number of vet trades into the TDL. Ideally Draft 2018 will see 2 - 1st Rounders and 2 - 2nd Rounders. I even expect the 2019 Draft will be important. Not as important as 2018 but still significant. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Well said Alf. Someone earlier gave a list of players he would be willing to trade. My list has no limits. Any player is tradable and should be. It is the GM's call as he builds towards s serious CUP contender. Watching this team from the beginning there has been a tendency to build teams that were 'regular season' teams. Competitive during the season but wilted under CUP play. Quinn changed that leading to '94. That was the best Canuck team in the history of the franchise. Benning is amassing a inventory of talent that could take another CUP run. Way to early to know who in this pool will be part of that roster. It is inevitable that some we think will be there will be traded to get a piece that better fits the group need. That is why I say there is never a 'untradeable' list. I don't want a 'premature' success in the standings to derail the acquisition to the depth of prospects. This is why I hope Benning can pull another number of vet trades into the TDL. Ideally Draft 2018 will see 2 - 1st Rounders and 2 - 2nd Rounders. I even expect the 2019 Draft will be important. Not as important as 2018 but still significant. Exactly. Suffer for a couple more seasons to have a great team for the following 10. It's those TDL trades that can really make the difference too. First, they make our current team weaker, and get us a better draft lottery %. Plus, down the road, those added draft picks give us more depth in our young players, who will push each other for spots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 So hey, Pettersson is pretty good. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 2 hours ago, drummerboy said: Can you explain how he reminds you of a young Forsberg? Other than similar point production, both being skinny as kids, and being Swedish. PF played a power forward/mad bull style game, who was almost impossible to push off the puck because of his strength and size. He had a much different body type than EP as well, and played around or over 210lbs. EP isn't likely to gain another 40 pounds of muscle. Not to mention PF being one of the best players ever. When Forsberg was drafted he was a skinny kid, not the PF you saw later. He was a guy with fanatastic anticipation, who created turnovers and scoring opportunities against the rush. Great shooter and playmaker with solid two way ability. What allowed Forsberg to dominate in the NHL was having that package and getting stronger. IMO Forsberg would have had an NHL career based on skill, speed and IQ alone, in some ways his size that allowed him to nag and crash also greatly shortened his career. At this stage in EP’s career size is the big question and then durability. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Rick Blight said: The Canadiens acquired LaFleur through a trade with the Golden Seals and did not trade any vets to get the pick. They traded their 1st round pick in 1970 for the Golden Seals' 1st round pick in 1971. Montreal Canadiens acquire Date California Golden Seals (Oakland) acquire cash 1971 1st round pick (#1-Guy Lafleur) Francois Lacombe May 22, 1970 1970 1st round pick (#10-Chris Oddleifson)Ernie Hicke The Canadiens traded Ralph Backstrom to the Kings in 1971 to ensure that L.A. stayed ahead of Oakland in the standings and preserve Montreal's 1st overall pick by doing so. You also need to remember that Sammy Pollock was Montreal's GM at the time and he was light years ahead of other GM's of that era. He would routinely trade players for 1st round picks 3 and 4 years out as he could afford to do so with how deep the talent on Montreal was. Montreal Canadiens acquire Date Los Angeles Kings acquire Ray FortinGord Labossiere1973 2nd round pick (#22-Peter Marrin) January 26, 1971 Ralph Backstrom And acquiring all those picks for veterens was how they stayed that way. That is how teams have built - with very rare eceptions. And it still is the way, trade guys at the ends of their careers, trade guys that appear to have peaked but still have good rubber on their tires, trade young guys that appear they won't excel for another kick at the draft. If then you develop them properly, coach them properly, give them a shot where they can succeed, and eventually you own a contender. Lots of teams' ownersip (or management) can't stand the pain of the journey and quit before the job is done and trade of their young promising guys for 'proven guys' - manage to get all the way up to mediocre for a couple of years, before they revert to being almost terrible - the story of most of the ownership in the NHL. Then you get the perrenials that do it right and they have the rafters full of banners. Historically and hysterically, there has been precious little patience among the ownership or the fans in Vancouver to do anything more than excel at mediocrity or less. Maybe this is the time, but I think not - not when they spend money and draft position to acquire the likes of Gagner, Vanek, Ericksson, etc., and keel old hasbeens like the Sedins and Edler. Hard to get betteer when you keep striving to be mediocre. You can't get bad enough to get a shot at getting the can't miss guys often enough. And by keeping the old, overpaid guys - you don't have the cap to reward the young guys, and you can't acquire other team's assets to fill in the hles in your lineup. Every once in a while, a great talent comes to the market, and you don't have the surplus assets to pick it up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Late 70's Habs were dominant..but such a different era of a choice few bullying stalwarts, & lots of cannon-fodder teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I've watched a few of his games, and I can't help but thinking that EP is going to be the best player taken in the 2017 draft. I think he will be fine playing around 175-180, which definitely isn't out of reach for him by the end of this year. If the Sedins do decide to retire after this season, I'd imagine EP would cement himself as the #1C quite quickly. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodCanadianKideh Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Our power play of the future is exciting to think about! Boeser on the left dropping bombs. Pettersson on the right with his howitzer. Gadjovich in front of the net swatting in rebounds. Juolevi on the point and hopefully a #1 Dman from the 2018 draft. We might score a goal on every single power play that we have... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungfudru Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 2 hours ago, aGENT said: A future PP1 with Boeser on the left, Pettersson on the right, Horvat in the middle, and one of the top 10 PMDs from this draft with say Juolevi on the point... yes please Please God let it be Dahlin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kungfudru Posted November 19, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dickie said: I've watched a few of his games, and I can't help but thinking that EP is going to be the best player taken in the 2017 draft. I think he will be fine playing around 175-180, which definitely isn't out of reach for him by the end of this year. If the Sedins do decide to retire after this season, I'd imagine EP would cement himself as the #1C quite quickly. I've said it before and I'll continue to do so. This current team is not going to contend like TB, St. Louis, or L.A is atm. Those are high calibre teams. We will not be winning a cup anytime soon. There is no reason to rush such an exceptional prospect onto this team. I think it would do wonders for this franchise and this future teams chances at winning a cup if EP, Dahlin, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Juolevi all played one season in the AHL. Esp for EP, that way he can work on being the #1 centerman we need for the next 15-20 years. He will still be playing against men while getting acclimated to the smaller ice surface in his natural position. The long term gain is what's best for him and the Canucks moving forward imo. Let him tear up the SHL this year, the AHL next year, and the NHL for the next 15-20 years after that. Edited November 19, 2017 by Kungfudru 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar baby watermelon Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Kungfudru said: I've said it before and I'll continue to do so. This current team is not going to contend like TB, St. Louis, or L.A is atm. Those are high calibre teams. We will not be winning a cup anytime soon. There is no reason to rush such an exceptional prospect onto this team. I think it would do wonders for this franchise and this future teams chances at winning a cup if EP, Dahlin, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Juolevi all played one season in the AHL. Esp for EP, that way he can work on being the #1 centerman we need for the next 15-20 years. He will still be playing against men while getting acclimated to the smaller ice surface in his natural position. The long term gain is what's best for him and the Canucks moving forward imo. Let him tear up the SHL this year, the AHL next year, and the NHL for the next 15-20 years after that. I agree 100%. Imagine all those prospects going into the AHL at the same time!! The chemistry they will develop and the defensive skills to go along with their offensive creativity!! Lucky ppl in Utica next year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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