Dats hockey Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, -AJ- said: I feel that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Pettersson to carry his own top six line outside of the killer Bs. I'm sure he could do wonders for whoever is on his line. It's not like we need a strict first line. Two "top 6" lines that play an equal amount sounds exciting to me. I was thinking the same thing. Some thing like Lind-Pettersson-Goldy i feeling petterson and goldy would be great together Edited November 24, 2017 by Dats hockey 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Alflives said: True, but who wins any Cups in this new Cap era without collecting elite players from top picks? We don't know. A lotto wining team hasn't won it all yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Rick Blight said: Add Buffalo, Islanders and Panthers to that list as well. Indeed. How many high picks have they had over the course of the last decade or so? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Darius71 said: Thats fine, but you did not answer the question. Say it takes 3 years to complete your tank plan, who is going to pay to watch a bottom 5 team? Would you buy season tickets? How many games would you go to? Its easy to talk about a tank when you are not eating the bill. Oh I didn't answer it because it's getting into Kevin Lowe's talk of tiers of fans that he got ripped for in Edmonton. I'm supporting them watching them on TV and supporting sportsnet's huge TV deal. I've always maintained a rebuilding team shouldn't be close to the cap and should be closer to the floor to help offset lost gate revenue. Lose revenue today for more revenue later with a sell out streak like we used to have in the winning days. Edited November 24, 2017 by FireGillis 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: True, but who wins any Cups in this new Cap era without collecting elite players from top picks? How many top 5 picks did L.A. have? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said: Indeed. How many high picks have they had over the course of the last decade or so? True, it a team needs to draft the right guys when getting those top picks. Maybe the point is, a team can't win without drafting high for a few years, and collecting elite players? I think having JB will help us select guys who will bring us a Cup with our top picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: The wrench in the gears of this concept though is Benning. He's proving he can get impact players (Boeser) outside the top picks. I still can't believe we got Dahlen for Burr, and I love Burr. Jim may have got the 1st overall when its all said and done 2-3 season from now and we can really compare Hischier and EP. If we can get lucky on a mid-1st round D that can actually run a PP things start getting interesting. Edited November 24, 2017 by Jimmy McGill 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, Alflives said: True, it a team needs to draft the right guys when getting those top picks. Maybe the point is, a team can't win without drafting high for a few years, and collecting elite players? I think having JB will help us select guys who will bring us a Cup with our top picks. I think we've taken the right approach. Trying to stay at least somewhat competitive without selling the farm to artificially/temporarily inflate the team. Hopefully we've seen the worst of it come and go now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Rick Blight said: How many top 5 picks did L.A. have? Doughty. Plus, Doughty is a 30 minute super elite dman. It's like the Loser Leafs getting Matthews. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said: I think we've taken the right approach. Trying to stay at least somewhat competitive without selling the farm to artificially/temporarily inflate the team. Hopefully we've seen the worst of it come and go now. I think we have seen the worst. JB has me convinced he can get elite players without drafting top five. Petersson looks amazing though. And Juiolevvi is looking really good too. Oh, and Demko too. And Lind:) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Alflives said: I think we have seen the worst. JB has me convinced he can get elite players without drafting top five. Petersson looks amazing though. And Juiolevvi is looking really good too. Oh, and Demko too. And Lind:) Gaudette as well. Hell, we've even got Lockwood flying under the radar. a handful of years ago he might have been considered our best prospect 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelar Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Citing Botchford in this context isn't going to go over well Unless he is Botch..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, FireGillis said: Again, horvat is doing just fine after two terrible years of losing. You see horvat losing confidence or having his growth stunted? He's an example of why that line of thinking is a myth. Taylor hall is doing fine in New Jersey. Yakupov was just the top pick in a weak draft year and wasn't actually that great. Talent will win out in the end. Losing affecting a players development is just making excuses for the player for not succeeding. I don't like it because it's pulling a Matt Murray and giving 0 accountability to the player. Because Horvat went to the playoffs in his first/second season and already DID have experience playing in a decent team, which is trying. Tanking, ie, losing with crap strategy is not what the Canucks have done. Either way, Horvat is the exception to the rule, not the standard. Taylor Hall is doing fine in New Jersey *NOW*. When he went, he was struggling, because of the years of losing culture ingrained in him. You are simply passing off your knee-jerk feelings as facts, while having no basis in thinking so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, Alflives said: Doughty. Plus, Doughty is a 30 minute super elite dman. It's like the Loser Leafs getting Matthews. Exactly, they had one. How many have we got now? Are you going to declare the tank over? There won't be a single person in here that denies finishing last or second last guarantees you a higher pick as that is simple math. There is also no dispute that your odds of finding a better player with higher picks is enhanced. What none of the tankers ever talk about is the impact on a team with losing year after year and that is the very dangerous offset with the intentional tank or simply being a bad team. And let's make no mistake here, the Canucks did not tank to get Pettersson. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Rick Blight said: He is not playing centre because the coaches are trying to protect him somewhat playing against men. Centres need to play the entire 200 ft game including battling in front of your own net.....that takes a toll on a 165 lb body. Playing wing is less skating. Playing wing on the larger Europen ice surface is less physical than in North America because there is less play along the boards. Your statement " Why is it easier for smaller forwards to play centre than winger ?" is wrong as it is actually the opposite, particularly at the NHL level. Doh. Thank you for the correction. So you are saying that in the NHL, the centre-man needs more muscle strength & size than wingers, because the battle for position in front of the net is more intense in both ends, than by the boards ? ( i am not asking a rhetorical question, i am trying to understand). Do you know if Petterrson is any good at face-offs ? You said you've been watching him, does he take the occasional draws when his regular centre is waved off ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, FireGillis said: Oh I didn't answer it because it's getting into the Kevin Lowe's talk of tiers of fans that he got ripped for in Edmonton. I'm supporting them watching them on TV and supporting sportsnet huge TV deal. I've always maintained a rebuilding team shouldn't be close to the cap and should be closer to the floor to help offset lost gate revenue. Lose revenue today, for more revenue later with a sell out streak like we used to have in the winning days. In other words you wont pay to go and see it. People are not going to fork out thousands of dollars in this market to watch a team that is going out of its way to languish in the basement. You think that an owner would ok with losing revenue now with the hopes of gaining it back later? (a huge risk) All the owner has to do is look at how the tank worked in places like Buffalo and Edmonton to have a good scare. Picking top 5 guarantees nothing. Would you pick Juolevi or Tkachuk? (I know the answer dont worry)...Id rather have a player like Brock , over both those guys, who was taken at 23. I like the St Louis model, personally...their best players were either obtained via a trade or post mid first round. Good scouting and developing there. Better than the farces we are watching in Edmonton and Buffalo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, canuckistani said: Doh. Thank you for the correction. So you are saying that in the NHL, the centre-man needs more muscle strength & size than wingers, because the battle for position in front of the net is more intense in both ends, than by the boards ? ( i am not asking a rhetorical question, i am trying to understand). Do you know if Petterrson is any good at face-offs ? You said you've been watching him, does he take the occasional draws when his regular centre is waved off ? The NHL effective centres are typically at 200 lbs or more with the odd exceptions. Coaches value size in their centres to offset others teams larger centres and for them to withstand the punishment down low in the offensive zone. They also value the size for face-offs as strength is instrumental to winning face-offs for most. Wingers can certainly be big and physical as well but your smaller skilled wingers are quite often converted from being natural centres. Smaller wingers like Gudreau and Kane (as examples) can play more on the periphery while still being very effective. They don't have to go to the dirty areas in front of the net to be successful but there are very few centres that can get away with that. I think it is fair to say that Pettersson has been below average in the face-off circle but he is not taking that many either. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 25 minutes ago, Alflives said: I think we have seen the worst. JB has me convinced he can get elite players without drafting top five. Petersson looks amazing though. And Juiolevvi is looking really good too. Oh, and Demko too. And Lind:) Careful Alf, we might start to think you have come over from the dark side. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, Darius71 said: I like the St Louis model, personally...their best players were either obtained via a trade or post mid first round. Sure, but the reverse is true too. How many cups have st. louis or the non tanking teams won? Only 1 team wins in the end and so far the pens, hawks and kings who all drafted high have won the cups. Boston is the lone exception to the rule in this era. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, FireGillis said: Sure, but the reverse is true too. How many cups have st. louis or the non tanking teams won? Only 1 team wins in the end and so far the pens, hawks and kings who all drafted high have won the cups. Boston is the lone exception to the rule in this era. With Petersson and Juiolevvi (picked at five) we look to have a couple top players coming. Plus, JB looks to have stolen an elite player in Boeser (23 overall). Then there are Demko, Lind, and Gaudette looking really good too - all second round or later picks. JB just might be a guy who can break the mould, and get us a Cup level team, without a top three pick. Although, he did trade for Guddy, who was top three. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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