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Elias Pettersson | #40 | C


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2 minutes ago, FireGillis said:

Sure, but the reverse is true too.  How many cups have st. louis or the non tanking teams won?  Only 1 team wins in the end and so far the pens, hawks and kings who all drafted high have won the cups.  Boston is the lone exception to the rule in this era.

Kings had 1 top 5 pick.....how many teams in the NHL do not have a top 5 pick on their roster?

The Pens did not use "tanking" to get Crosby so I think it is fair to say that blind luck was more a reason for their Cups than tanking.

 

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3 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Kings had 1 top 5 pick.....how many teams in the NHL do not have a top 5 pick on their roster?

The Pens did not use "tanking" to get Crosby so I think it is fair to say that blind luck was more a reason for their Cups than tanking.

 

Kings had 2. They used Brayden schenn (5th overall) in a package to get Richards and Carter. 

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21 minutes ago, FireGillis said:

Sure, but the reverse is true too.  How many cups have st. louis or the non tanking teams won?  Only 1 team wins in the end and so far the pens, hawks and kings who all drafted high have won the cups.  Boston is the lone exception to the rule in this era.

Pens won cups because they got a generational talent. Thats pure luck.  Plus all the teams you cite would not have the same odds at winning those players today.  Look at Colorado, they finished dead last and had to pick 4th last year.    The same rules do not apply today.  Highly unlikely those teams would accumulate the same players with todays draft rules.  I agree that tanking has some benefits, but the Canucks have picked 5th, 5th, 6th and 9th in the past 5 years, its easy for you to want them to keep finishing at the bottom of the league for another x number of years when you do not have one dime tied up with the team. 

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2 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

You know, I will even give you that one.

In the past 10 drafts (2008 - 2017) the following teams have had the most top 5 picks.

1. Edmonton - 6

2. Islanders - 5

3. Colorado - 4

4. Toronto - 4

5. Florida - 4

6. Winnipeg/Atlanta - 3

7. Columbus - 3

8. Tampa - 3

 

How many Stanley Cups are in there?

ouch....

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2 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

You know, I will even give you that one.

In the past 10 drafts (2008 - 2017) the following teams have had the most top 5 picks.

1. Edmonton - 6  5 cups

2. Islanders - 5  4 cups

3. Colorado - 4  2 cups

4. Toronto - 4  11 cups

5. Florida - 4  0 cups

6. Winnipeg/Atlanta - 3  0 cups

7. Columbus - 3   0 cups

8. Tampa - 3  1 cup

 

How many Stanley Cups are in there?

Did I do it right?

:bigblush:

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1 hour ago, Rick Blight said:

Exactly, they had one. How many have we got now? Are you going to declare the tank over?

There won't be a single person in here that denies finishing last or second last guarantees you a higher pick as that is simple math. There is also no dispute that your odds of finding a better player with higher picks is enhanced. What none of the tankers ever talk about is the impact on a team with losing year after year and that is the very dangerous offset with the intentional tank or simply being a bad team. And let's make no mistake here, the Canucks did not tank to get Pettersson.

 

Oh we are aware of this myth or culture of losing and the supposed impact on the team, but it certainly didnt effect toews and kane who were brought into a losing culture in chicago.


Frankly I think this is more old school lore, good players who are not mentally weak will be fine.

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Just now, Ghost-M said:

 

Oh we are aware of this myth or culture of losing and the supposed impact on the team, but it certainly didnt effect toews and kane who were brought into a losing culture in chicago.


Frankly I think this is more old school lore, good players who are not mentally weak will be fine.

Oilers, Coyotes, Panthers, Sabres and Islanders all say hi.

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3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Oilers, Coyotes, Panthers, Sabres and Islanders all say hi.

LoL your just citing bad teams with bad management. Its not like the capitals have done anything either despite being competitive the last decade. Oilers were poorly run with the old boys club, coyotes are a budget team that has no money. Panthers have made the playoffs a few times in the past number of years despite little support from fans and ticket sales, same with the isles who look pretty good this year with barzal. This is not due to a losing culture. 

 

We could go round and round, this culture of losing idea is hilarious though. If a losing culture in itself hurts the mindset of these teams and players, again toews and kane would have never overcame it in the abysmal hawks culture they were brought into. Decades of losing.

Edited by Ghost-M
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Just now, Ghost-M said:

LoL your just citing bad teams with bad management. Its not like the capitals have done anything either despite being competitive the last decade. Oilers were poorly run with the old boys club, coyotes are a budget team that has no money. Panthers have made the playoffs a few times in the past number of years despite little support from fans and ticket sales. This is not a losing culture. 

 

We could go round and round, this culture of losing idea is hilarious though. If a losing culture in itself hurts the mindset of these teams and players, again toews and kane would have never overcame it in the abysmal hawks culture they were brought into. Decades of losing.

Ahh, so your one example proves my several examples wrong. K cool.

 

And incidentally, the Oilers are pretty damn awful this year, the Panthers miss the playoffs more often than they make them, and are generally still regarded as a poor franchise with, yes, a LOSING culture.

 

It's pretty obvious to anyone that doesn't have blinders on that when a team digs itself into a deep enough hole, it's near impossible to dig themselves out of it, and basically have to hope and pray for a miracle in the form of a generational talent to somehow land in their laps in order to have a shot, which incidentally is now harder than ever to achieve with the new draft rules.

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7 minutes ago, Ghost-M said:

 

Oh we are aware of this myth or culture of losing and the supposed impact on the team, but it certainly didnt effect toews and kane who were brought into a losing culture in chicago.


Frankly I think this is more old school lore, good players who are not mentally weak will be fine.

It didn't affect Toews and Kane because they didn't have to go through the extended losing. Kane's 1st season was a losing season but that was it. The Hawks finished 2nd in Toew's 1st year and won the division in his 2nd year.. 

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2 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

It didn't affect Toews and Kane because they didn't have to go through the extended losing. Kane's 1st season was a losing season but that was it. The Hawks finished 2nd in Toew's 1st year and won the division in his 2nd year.. 

Oh so its extended losing culture? They were brought into a mess anyway you slice it and changed that franchise thats the point.

 

By that same token the person above is mentioning the oilers, so mcdavid only had one bad year with the oilers, and the person above is still using them as an example of culture of losing.

Edited by Ghost-M
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I like the anti tank proposal that gives the top ranked non playoff team the first pick and then down the list to the last place team. The order then goes to the lowest playoff qualifier up to the first overall finisher. 

 

no lottery and no tanking and you still give the “weaker teams” the higher draft picks 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Ahh, so your one example proves my several examples wrong. K cool.

 

And incidentally, the Oilers are pretty damn awful this year, the Panthers miss the playoffs more often than they make them, and are generally still regarded as a poor franchise with, yes, a LOSING culture.

 

It's pretty obvious to anyone that doesn't have blinders on that when a team digs itself into a deep enough hole, it's near impossible to dig themselves out of it, and basically have to hope and pray for a miracle in the form of a generational talent to somehow land in their laps in order to have a shot, which incidentally is now harder than ever to achieve with the new draft rules.

 

Your examples were just of poorly run teams nothing to link losing culture. Like I said what have the caps, blues, rangers done with this competitive winning culture? Your again just listing poorly managed teams.

 

You dig yourself into a big hole by poorly managing the team, not drafting well and losing on your trades.... Not because prior years your team was not winning and these players are not mentally broken losers.

Edited by Ghost-M
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2 minutes ago, Ghost-M said:

Oh so its extended losing culture? They were brought into a mess anyway you slice it and changed that franchise thats the point.

 

By that same token the person above is mentioning the oilers, so mcdavid only had one bad year with the oilers, and the person above is still using them as an example of culture of losing.

Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, and Nugent Hopkins sure experienced the losing culture of the Oilers.

 

 

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Elias Pettersson | #40 | C
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