48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, Ghost-M said: Your examples were just of poorly run teams nothing to link losing culture. Like I said what have the caps, blues, rangers done with this competitive winning culture? Your again just listing poorly managed teams. You dig yourself into a big hole by poorly managing the team, not drafting well and losing on your trades.... Not because prior yours your team was not winning and these players are part of the losing mentality and are broken. Been consistently good teams? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, Ghost-M said: LoL your just citing bad teams with bad management. Its not like the capitals have done anything either despite being competitive the last decade. Oilers were poorly run with the old boys club, coyotes are a budget team that has no money. Panthers have made the playoffs a few times in the past number of years despite little support from fans and ticket sales, same with the isles who look pretty good this year with barzal. This is not due to a losing culture. We could go round and round, this culture of losing idea is hilarious though. If a losing culture in itself hurts the mindset of these teams and players, again toews and kane would have never overcame it in the abysmal hawks culture they were brought into. Decades of losing. If the culture of losing idea is ridiculous, then so should be the idea that elite talent can only be found in the first few picks in the first round. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost-M Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said: Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, and Nugent Hopkins sure experienced the losing culture of the Oilers. So was it the losing culture that destroyed the players or the fact you had kevin lowe rushing them into the nhl, and mctavish, signing them to fat contracts before they were ready with little to no depth on the team? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost-M Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Wilbur said: If the culture of losing idea is ridiculous, then so should be the idea that elite talent can only be found in the first few picks in the first round. Absolutely nobody has said that either, but it certainly helps your chances when you can draft high and do your home work and have your choice at who to pick. The rangers wanted petersson, chances are he would not have been here past 7. Edited November 24, 2017 by Ghost-M 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost-M Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Been consistently good teams? And where has that got them, how many cups have they won with this winning culture. I argue the islanders you listed are in as good of position now to win a cup as the rangers are. Edited November 24, 2017 by Ghost-M 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, Ghost-M said: So was it the losing culture that destroyed the players or the fact you had kevin lowe rushing them into the nhl, and mctavish, signing them to fat contracts before they were ready with little to no depth on the team? Yes, as it was the losing culture of the Oilers that pushed them into rushing their young players into the lineup before they were ready, thus making the situation that much worse. Had they bothered to try and stay competitive, they wouldn't have rushed their young guys into the lineup as quick as they did. That's what happens when you stripmine your team and go full tank. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, Ghost-M said: And where has that got them, how many cups have they won. I argue the islanders you listed are in as good of position now to win a cup as the rangers are. You do realize the Rangers got to the cup final a couple of years ago, right? Whereas the Islanders haven't come anywhere close to a cup in a long-ass time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: You do realize the Rangers got to the cup final a couple of years ago, right? Whereas the Islanders haven't come anywhere close to a cup in a long-ass time. We need to let this go. This is the Elias Pettersson thread and not the tankards thread. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost-M Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said: Yes, as it was the losing culture of the Oilers that pushed them into rushing their young players into the lineup before they were ready, thus making the situation that much worse. Had they bothered to try and stay competitive, they wouldn't have rushed their young guys into the lineup as quick as they did. That's what happens when you stripmine your team and go full tank. Many teams are poor and dont rush prospects, i completely disagree these losing culture ruined them, again that was a management decision to rush them and it was quite frankly wrong. Just because you have a poor team does not mean you rush prospects into the nhl. Its not like arizona right now rushed domi, or strome (who is still in the ahl) despite losing. Its a management decision and a poor one at that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 26 minutes ago, FireGillis said: Nah, both for the first cup and Carter for the 2nd cup as Richards was less of a factor by then. no, I mean schenn was only flipped for richards. the carter acquisition had nothing to do with schenn. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost-M Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: You do realize the Rangers got to the cup final a couple of years ago, right? Whereas the Islanders haven't come anywhere close to a cup in a long-ass time. Yes they went to a single cup and lost, if that somehow proves this winning culture means that its essential to the long term success of your prospects and teams future then hats off to you, my point was rangers are in no better position then the islanders to win one today. I mine as well throw detroit in the mix who has consistently stayed competitive every year and now has a much bleaker future then someone like the leafs. Edited November 24, 2017 by Ghost-M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, Ghost-M said: Yes they went to a single cup and lost, if that somehow proves this winning culture means that its essential to the long term success of your prospects and teams future then hats off to you, my point was rangers are in no better position then the islanders to win one today. Will you be able to say the same thing once Tavares hits free agency after growing tired of putting up with being on a losing team for so long? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost-M Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said: Will you be able to say the same thing once Tavares hits free agency after growing tired of putting up with being on a losing team for so long? Were getting way off topic into total speculation, the rangers dont exactly have any elite players themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, tas said: no, I mean schenn was only flipped for richards. the carter acquisition had nothing to do with schenn. Oh right. I forgot Carter went to Columbus first. Edited November 24, 2017 by FireGillis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungfudru Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 3 hours ago, canuckistani said: Sorry but that is completely wrong and most likely, spoken like someone who's never been/never tried being a pro sports guy. Losing does ruin development, because losing and losing hard, tends to shake one's confidence. When things persistently don't work, even when you are not to blame, its human competitive nature to start re-evaluating everything- including your strengths and things you do well. Especially in a team sport, where 'doing the right thing' is even more murky. There is a reason why all the Edmonton draft busts aren't exactly improving over time or in their new homes right off the bat. Because confidence,once shattered, is like going into a boxing match wondering how badly you will lose. Really hard to regain. And this is why teams that really do tank, end up stunting their youth's development, ala Edmonton and its 'lost generation'. Edmonton, where prospects go to die... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ghost-M said: Were getting way off topic into total speculation, the rangers dont exactly have any elite players themselves. Maybe that's where Tavares signs? Fact is that teams that don't succumb to a losing culture and at least try to stay competitive are more attractive places to play, not to mention franchise stability as well. Who the hell wants to play for Arizona? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendary10 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 On 11/21/2017 at 3:51 AM, alfstonker said: If only that's how it happened on here. You are either new to these boards or have an exaggerated opinion of how fair the posters on here can be. Highlight reels can be deceptive, the Swedish league can be deceptive, that is all I'm saying. I want the player to succeed, so I would rather not add to the pressure that comes with a high draft placing. He is 19 and yet only 170lbs at most. That alone should cause the fans to have patience and not try to inflate his potential until he has had time to develop. "It’s not without cause that Pettersson has been compared by some to Henrik Zetterberg, being a Timrå product himself, and Pavel Datsyuk. If that doesn’t tell you what level of hockey IQ and puck control we are talking about here, I don’t know what does. So, why isn’t he a sure thing? Well, what concerns the scouts and NHL teams the most is his physique, or lack thereof, weighing in at 161 lbs. And the fact that Pettersson didn’t respond to the high expectations of him at the 2017 World Junior Championships likely had a negative impact on his draft value. Pettersson would be a long-time project for any NHL team willing to invest in him. He has a load of potential but without room for guarantees, so it’s difficult to project his draft status. With all his upside abilities in mind, one could easily expect to see him get picked between 10th and 20th in the first round." https://thehockeywriters.com/elias-pettersson-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/ Dude. Thomas Gradin thinks that EP should be in the NHL this year, I'd listen to him. Enough said 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost-M Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, canuckistani said: Sorry but that is completely wrong and most likely, spoken like someone who's never been/never tried being a pro sports guy. Losing does ruin development, because losing and losing hard, tends to shake one's confidence. When things persistently don't work, even when you are not to blame, its human competitive nature to start re-evaluating everything- including your strengths and things you do well. Especially in a team sport, where 'doing the right thing' is even more murky. There is a reason why all the Edmonton draft busts aren't exactly improving over time or in their new homes right off the bat. Because confidence,once shattered, is like going into a boxing match wondering how badly you will lose. Really hard to regain. And this is why teams that really do tank, end up stunting their youth's development, ala Edmonton and its 'lost generation'. Again your sure this is a correlation to a losing culture and simply not due to poor management decisions by lowe/mctavish not developing prospects properly and rushing them into the nhl playing big minutes where guys like hall and rnh got injured early in their careers? Its definitely the losing culture they cant mentally overcome? Halls having a pretty good year in jersey to. Because mcdavid and drasaitl were brought into that culture and the oilers made it to the 2nd round last year. Although in the case of drasaitl they did it properly and sent him down even when they were bad, and they thankfully did that with puljuravi and yamamoto now to. Edited November 24, 2017 by Ghost-M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Creating a losing environment is a "bad management decision". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 25 minutes ago, Legendary10 said: Dude. Thomas Gradin thinks that EP should be in the NHL this year, I'd listen to him. Enough said Isn’t Gradin his agent though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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