Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[Elias Pettersson]

7 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

I honestly cannot remember the last goalie to win the Calder.  

 

 

There have been quite a few, 16 in total in the 85 year history of the Calder Trophy.  Of those 16, 8 are Hall of Famers:

 

Steve Mason, Andrew Raycroft, Evgeni Nabokov, Martin Brodeur, Ed Belfour, Tom Barrasso, Ken Dryden, Tony Esposito, Roger Crozier, Glenn Hall, Gump Worsley, Terry Sawchuk, Jack Gelineau, Frank McCool, Frank Brimsek, Mike Karakas.

[The Beagle had landed]

11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky won the scoring title 3 times without Messier, the last being when he was 33.  He also took an average LA team to the final and almost won the Cup.  How many players have won the scoring title at age 33?  Messier still had a loaded team in Edmonton even without Gretzky.  Even in New York he had a powerful team.  He did nothing when he came to Vancouver except float around.  Gretzky was a +520 in his NHL career, Messier was a +211, huge difference.  Gretzky also holds the record for most shorthanded goals in NHL history with 73, Messier is second with 63.  So Gretzky was dominant on the penalty kill, even more dominant than Messier.

 

Messier needed Gretzky just as much as Gretzky needed Messier.  They worked hand in hand.  If it wasn't for McSorley's stick and Patrick Roy's brilliance Gretzky would have won multiple cups in LA.

Interesting question.  I decided to do some research.

 

Gretzky won his tenth and final scoring title in 1994 at 33 years of age with 130 points for the LA Kings.

 

Since then only 5 players in the last 25 years have won the scoring title in in their 30's.

 

Mario Lemieux did it back to back in '96 and '97 at 31 and 32 years of age with a combined 283 points.

 

Peter Forsberg did it with the Avalanche in 2003 with 106 points at 30 years of age.

 

Henrik was 30 when he got 112 in 2010 and Daniel was 31 when he got 104 the following year.

 

The last one was Marty St.Louis when he won his second scoring title during the shortened lock out year in 2013 with 60 points at 37 years of age.

 

It's obvioulsy a difficult thing to do in your 30's and probably a lot more now with the amount of amazing young talent in the league.

 

By the looks of it, you need to be a Hall of Fame level player to accomplish this feat.  My money would be on Crosby or Kane to be the next one to do it.

[Mrwipeout]

i would say the more younger players are gettng higher points since the speed in the sport has increased a lot. its faster and with the harsher rules against destructive defensive plays (hooking etc.) the speed increases further. when u reach ur 30s ur not as speedy anymore and therefore u wont get to as many chances in the crucial moments of the game. The dangers of the speed is also that the force gets higher, so impacts and plays where u get tangled up will most likely be more dangerous for the body to withstand. most players will be at their prime in their mid 20s say 25-30. Not a shock really, but i also think severe injuries due to the speed will most likely end manycareers pematurely. U have to be as smart as EP40 to be able to play a long time in the leage. I can only imagine how good he will be in 5 years time from now.....a bit more muscles...a bit more experience....O M G. 

[Joe_Kerr]

3 hours ago, The Beagle had landed said:

Interesting question.  I decided to do some research.

 

Gretzky won his tenth and final scoring title in 1994 at 33 years of age with 130 points for the LA Kings.

 

Since then only 5 players in the last 25 years have won the scoring title in in their 30's.

 

Mario Lemieux did it back to back in '96 and '97 at 31 and 32 years of age with a combined 283 points.

 

Peter Forsberg did it with the Avalanche in 2003 with 106 points at 30 years of age.

 

Henrik was 30 when he got 112 in 2010 and Daniel was 31 when he got 104 the following year.

 

The last one was Marty St.Louis when he won his second scoring title during the shortened lock out year in 2013 with 60 points at 37 years of age.

 

It's obvioulsy a difficult thing to do in your 30's and probably a lot more now with the amount of amazing young talent in the league.

 

By the looks of it, you need to be a Hall of Fame level player to accomplish this feat.  My money would be on Crosby or Kane to be the next one to do it.

That's awesome seeing the Sedins on here

[Ballisticsports.]

10 hours ago, The Beagle had landed said:

Interesting question.  I decided to do some research.

 

Gretzky won his tenth and final scoring title in 1994 at 33 years of age with 130 points for the LA Kings.

 

Since then only 5 players in the last 25 years have won the scoring title in in their 30's.

 

Mario Lemieux did it back to back in '96 and '97 at 31 and 32 years of age with a combined 283 points.

 

Peter Forsberg did it with the Avalanche in 2003 with 106 points at 30 years of age.

 

Henrik was 30 when he got 112 in 2010 and Daniel was 31 when he got 104 the following year.

 

The last one was Marty St.Louis when he won his second scoring title during the shortened lock out year in 2013 with 60 points at 37 years of age.

 

It's obvioulsy a difficult thing to do in your 30's and probably a lot more now with the amount of amazing young talent in the league.

 

By the looks of it, you need to be a Hall of Fame level player to accomplish this feat.  My money would be on Crosby or Kane to be the next one to do it.

Do not forget, he played so much hockey , He played playoffs, regular season, all star games, interviews, exhibits, international competitions, autographs etc and to still win against fresher,younger faster stronger guys It is a wonder why he never burned himself out way before that

[The Beagle had landed]

12 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Do not forget, he played so much hockey , He played playoffs, regular season, all star games, interviews, exhibits, international competitions, autographs etc and to still win against fresher,younger faster stronger guys It is a wonder why he never burned himself out way before that

If you're talking about Wayne, he was so elusive and smart that it made up for it. 

 

It's amazing what the Sedins did in back to back years with the amount of abuse they took every game battling along the boards and playing against some tough checking lines.

 

It just goes to show that skill, smarts and determination will take you far.

 

We are all witness to Pettersson's abilities to dangle when he has the puck, and also be where the puck will be which is where a lot of the comparisons to Gretzky's skill come from.

[Tre Mac]

Gretzky shot at this:

 

EP40 shoots at this:

 

 

 

"I believe Sydney Crosby would've scored 200points a year if he played in the 80's" - Gretzky

 

The biggest flaw in hockey is the record book. 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

A really good point Tre Mac ^^^.

 

Goalies were much smaller, the equipment was bulky. I would also add that the players weren't as skilled or as fit. The diets were basically steak and pasta, beers after the games. Some players even smoked. If Gretzky played today, he would probably be similar to Pettersson.

  

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, Tre Mac said:

Gretzky shot at this:

 

EP40 shoots at this:

 

 

 

"I believe Sydney Crosby would've scored 200points a year if he played in the 80's" - Gretzky

 

The biggest flaw in hockey is the record book. 

 

 

There's no doubt players are better now than back in the old days, but it seems very boring to look at history that way. Put a guy like Todd Bertuzzi with all his technology and health and fitness knowledge into the 60s and he's as good as Gordie Howe. Put Pettersson in the 40s and he's the best player in the history of the game. I think it's best to look at players throughout history compared to their competition at the time. Heck, Tom Sestito as he was in the 2000s would have been a superstar in the 1930s. Does that mean we rate Sestito higher than Morenz? Surely not.

[Mrwipeout]

Its always hard to make a comparrison when the sport has changed a lot during those decades that has passed. I think u can only compare with others that are closer to this last decade or so. Not with Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr and etcetra. I think its more sufficient to say that Pettersson is closer to Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin and Mcdavids capacity and let the statistics do the talking for how good he is in the history of rookies. No one will ever be able to erase the memories of The great one or of Lemieux. But the players of Crosbys and Ovechkins capacity is where we can see that Pettersson is at the same level. And he still has SO much potential purely by getting bigger physically. The things he will be able to do....considering what he already does today... o wow. And thats just such a beautiful thought, because with purely hard work and nothing more, he WILL achieve it. That is definetly an amazing thing on its own. 

[Ballisticsports.]

49 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

There's no doubt players are better now than back in the old days, but it seems very boring to look at history that way. Put a guy like Todd Bertuzzi with all his technology and health and fitness knowledge into the 60s and he's as good as Gordie Howe. Put Pettersson in the 40s and he's the best player in the history of the game. I think it's best to look at players throughout history compared to their competition at the time. Heck, Tom Sestito as he was in the 2000s would have been a superstar in the 1930s. Does that mean we rate Sestito higher than Morenz? Surely not.

Excellent post

Goes for any sport

Man evolves - put me in with Caveman and I am the greatest hockey player then

[Westcoasting]

5 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

A really good point Tre Mac ^^^.

 

Goalies were much smaller, the equipment was bulky. I would also add that the players weren't as skilled or as fit. The diets were basically steak and pasta, beers after the games. Some players even smoked. If Gretzky played today, he would probably be similar to Pettersson.

  

I think if Pettersson played in the 80's he would be similar to Peter Statsny, great all around player as well.

[cory40]

Many forget Elias is a rookie and is setting marks that havn't been seen in 30 ish years. Just like the records in Sweden were records untouched for thirty years. Wait until the Canucks are a little deeper and Elias can focus on offense. When he does he will be like Gretzky and there won't be a close second! Especially when help comes. Unlike McDavid Elias is a passing machine! And he can shoot as good as anyone out there. What is Elias's ceiling it could be 150 to 170pts. Especially when Hughes comes. We are seeing glimpses of what he is capable of. He is doing incredible things at 165 to 170 lbs and at a new position.

[Cup2022]

25 minutes ago, cory40 said:

Many forget Elias is a rookie and is setting marks that havn't been seen in 30 ish years. Just like the records in Sweden were records untouched for thirty years. Wait until the Canucks are a little deeper and Elias can focus on offense. When he does he will be like Gretzky and there won't be a close second! Especially when help comes. Unlike McDavid Elias is a passing machine! And he can shoot as good as anyone out there. What is Elias's ceiling it could be 150 to 170pts. Especially when Hughes comes. We are seeing glimpses of what he is capable of. He is doing incredible things at 165 to 170 lbs and at a new position.

I would bet no player ever puts up 170+ ever again no stiffs in the league that can't skate any more to take advantage of.

 

[Phat Fingers]

On 2/13/2019 at 5:21 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

There have been quite a few, 16 in total in the 85 year history of the Calder Trophy.  Of those 16, 8 are Hall of Famers:

 

Steve Mason, Andrew Raycroft, Evgeni Nabokov, Martin Brodeur, Ed Belfour, Tom Barrasso, Ken Dryden, Tony Esposito, Roger Crozier, Glenn Hall, Gump Worsley, Terry Sawchuk, Jack Gelineau, Frank McCool, Frank Brimsek, Mike Karakas.

That's right, Raycroft won the Calder and Mason.  Both are not HOF guys.  That's the last 2 in almost 20 years.  Like I said, not a recent trend.  

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, cory40 said:

Many forget Elias is a rookie and is setting marks that havn't been seen in 30 ish years. Just like the records in Sweden were records untouched for thirty years. Wait until the Canucks are a little deeper and Elias can focus on offense. When he does he will be like Gretzky and there won't be a close second! Especially when help comes. Unlike McDavid Elias is a passing machine! And he can shoot as good as anyone out there. What is Elias's ceiling it could be 150 to 170pts. Especially when Hughes comes. We are seeing glimpses of what he is capable of. He is doing incredible things at 165 to 170 lbs and at a new position.

Anything over 100 would be FANTASTIC. 

 

120-130 is about as high as we see in the modern era. Maybe that gets bumped a bit with the increased scoring this year but 150-170 is probably not realistic for anyone.

[Westcoasting]

8 hours ago, cory40 said:

Many forget Elias is a rookie and is setting marks that havn't been seen in 30 ish years. Just like the records in Sweden were records untouched for thirty years. Wait until the Canucks are a little deeper and Elias can focus on offense. When he does he will be like Gretzky and there won't be a close second! Especially when help comes. Unlike McDavid Elias is a passing machine! And he can shoot as good as anyone out there. What is Elias's ceiling it could be 150 to 170pts. Especially when Hughes comes. We are seeing glimpses of what he is capable of. He is doing incredible things at 165 to 170 lbs and at a new position.

League scoring is up across the board, that's what you are seeing. What place in points is Elias? Let us know when he is top 5 then your thoughts will have more meaning to them.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

53 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

League scoring is up across the board, that's what you are seeing. What place in points is Elias? Let us know when he is top 5 then your thoughts will have more meaning to them.

I think the over hype is getting a bit extreme on here.  EP is an unreal talent but we got to stop with the great one predictions.  People are acting like it’s a given that he will become a top 5 player NHL history, but it’s not even a given that he will be a top 5 player in the current league. He’s having an outstanding rookie season but let’s slow down and take a bit of a breather.  

 

For example what makes a 20 year old Pettersson better than an 18 year old Crosby?  18 year old Crosby put up 102 points and was 6th in league in scoring.  And Crosby was 35+ points ahead of his next closest teammate. Even if you go by p/pg this year (to ignore EP missed games to injury) he’s still only sitting 28th in the league amongst players who’ve played more than 40 games.  It’s hard to come to the conclusion that EP is on a level above and beyond someone Crosby.

 

EP in his 20th year old season (rookie year) has 51 points in 47 games (1.09p/gp)

Steven Stamkos in his 19 year old season put up 51 goals and 95 points. 

Malkin in his 20th year old season (rookie year) put up 85 points in 78 games (1.09p/gp). 

Barzal in his 20th year old season (rookie year) put up 85 points (1.04p/gp)

 

I don’t remember anyone claiming those players were the next greatest things, so I think we got to temper down the hype a bit. 

 

I think we should be pumped that he’s turning into an elite franchise superstar similarly to what the hawks have in Kane, or what the Flames have with Johnny, or the leafs have with Matthews,  or even what the Sabres have in Eichel.  Not many teams get those types of players ever.  We should be happy that we have a player that looks like he has the potential to be in the “running” for the art ross every year....and that’s truly something special. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Nobody is getting 150-170 points in the NHL anytime soon.  Those are Gretzky and Lemieux numbers.  Especially in today's NHL.  The way the game is going we could see 130 points from McDavid, Kucherov and maybe even Pettersson one day.  

 

Pettersson is elite and looks to be a generational talent.  He has some good comparisons to Gretzky in terms of his play on the ice, even how he skates and sees the play before others do.  That is very evident.  However he is not at Gretzky's level in terms of talent, nobody in the current NHL is even close.  However, Pettersson does have the ability to reach the top echelon of NHL players.  We will see how his career unfolds.  I think he can crack 100 points, even as early as next year.  Can he get to 120-130 points where McDavid, Kucherov and maybe a couple others might get to?  Only time will tell.

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I think the over hype is getting a bit extreme on here.  EP is an unreal talent but we got to stop with the great one predictions.  People are acting like it’s a given that he will become a top 5 player NHL history, but it’s not even a given that he will be a top 5 player in the current league. He’s having an outstanding rookie season but let’s slow down and take a bit of a breather.  

 

For example what makes a 20 year old Pettersson better than an 18 year old Crosby?  18 year old Crosby put up 102 points and was 6th in league in scoring.  And Crosby was 35+ points ahead of his next closest teammate. Even if you go by p/pg this year (to ignore EP missed games to injury) he’s still only sitting 28th in the league amongst players who’ve played more than 40 games.  It’s hard to come to the conclusion that EP is on a level above and beyond someone Crosby.

 

EP in his 20th year old season (rookie year) has 51 points in 47 games (1.09p/gp)

Steven Stamkos in his 19 year old season put up 51 goals and 95 points. 

Malkin in his 20th year old season (rookie year) put up 85 points in 78 games (1.09p/gp). 

Barzal in his 20th year old season (rookie year) put up 85 points (1.04p/gp)

 

I don’t remember anyone claiming those players were the next greatest things, so I think we got to temper down the hype a bit. 

 

I think we should be pumped that he’s turning into an elite franchise superstar similarly to what the hawks have in Kane, or what the Flames have with Johnny, or the leafs have with Matthews,  or even what the Sabres have in Eichel.  Not many teams get those types of players ever.  We should be happy that we have a player that looks like he has the potential to be in the “running” for the art ross every year....and that’s truly something special. 

Plays a similar style to Gretzky =/= better than Gretzky.