dura_mater Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 42 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Sure, it was actually on here where I saw someone post the list. Well if you scroll down someone says they captured it off a video. Hardly a leak as the draft was probably over by the time they got it. I'm not hating, just not sure it's considered a leak. Interesting nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: If we fall out of the top 3 (Dahlin/Svech/Zadina) then the target should be Adam Boqvist. He would probably be both BPA and fill our biggest need as that elite skating puck moving PP QB. Anyone of these would make me happy Dahlin Svechnikov Zadina Boqvist Wahlstrom Tkachuk Kotkaniemi Just don't pick Bouchard for god's sake, what an underwhelming outcome that would be after this brutal Canucks season. 26, I have asked you before, but other than his first three steps, there is little not to like of Bouchards game. He has been dominating this season, leads all OHL defenders in points (83), minutes played, assists(60) and captains his team while scoring 23 goals. He did this while on a re building team, which he also lead in points while playing in all situations. This is one of the most impressive draft eligible seasons for an OHL defender in the last two decades with only Ryan Ellis having more points (89) in his draft year while playing on perhaps the most dominant OHL team in the past two decades. We we all have our likes, but your adamant dislike of Bouchard is puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Pure961089 said: The sad part is I've done the NHL draft lottery simulator and even if the Canucks lose all their remaining games and fall to the very bottom, 9/10 times the Canucks drop from 1st to 4th. Then we get Boqvist! Zero problems with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 10 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: But that's what i'm saying, the canucks list is what matters and when they put there lists together, it's not going to be based on team needs, so if we are having the discussion here, it also shouldn't be based on team needs. A player having a right handed shot or having size isn't an important factor when we talk about BPA. What I am saying here is that the Canucks will decide whether they put value in the position not you or I. And yes it will have need influence thus why they took Juolevi over Tkachuck. They took the best D that was available and by the way I agreed with that pick as well. Thats exactly why they did it. If they draft 2-7 they will decide who is left on the board and if they want to take a D over F they will do it. Again my preference is for D Because it's the scouts jobs to differentiate the players and if there's a reason they put a player at 2 and another at 4, you need to consider why. Totally agree, I don't know why you think i am saying otherwise. But its the CANUCKS scouts that will put the player where he is not the central scouting.Just because thats what is on some website doesnt mean anything. If they value D over F they will adjust their list, i'm not so sure whats so hard to understand in this statement. Just because central scouting has a player at 2 or 10 doesn't mean that's where the Canucks have him There are obviously aware but I don't want any of those variables entering into the discussion. A player isn't better just because he's 6'3, a player isn't better just because a team already has a PWF. Best player available is simple the best player. What you or I want doesn't matter as Jim Benning is not picking up the phone on draft day to call you to get your opinion on what they will do with pick number ? You have one opinion i have another. Thats cool I respect your right to that opinion. I again state i believe that size matters on the Defense. You need it to move the players out of your crease. The players like Hughes, like Boqvist will struggle in this division with the size of the players they play against. Its just physics. Stecher vs Staal. and before you say they wont be put out in situations like that , half the games are on the road and teams will take advantage of the opportunity to play their big power forwards against them e.g Kopitar. I'm not saying don't draft defence. We have 7 rounds of drafting, for all i care we can take a D with our remaining 6 picks, I'm saying with your first pick you don't chose team need over talent, we need to take full advantage of our poor standings and not just pass this opportunity up to add an high level talent. There is always lots of talent in the later rounds to find good players, Some of them that could develop into better NHL D. For example if canucks left the draft with; Lastly this draft is special for D men. There are 15 in the top 30 this year expected to be taken.High level talent is subjective to what the scouts believe will fit into the game our team wants to play. They will make the decision. I know i am not at the draft table in June. They will pick what they feel if the best player for the organization not just the Best player on someone else's list. It really doesn't matter where Central scouting or any other website has Evan Bouchard or any other player. All that matters is where Jim Benning and the Canucks have him. The D taken in the first round this year are projected to be first line D. That doesn't happen every year and we need to take advantage of it. 2nd overall Svech, 66 points in 41gp (37 goals) OHL 33rd overall Alexeyev 6'3 RHD, 37 points in 45 gp WHL 66th overall Demin, 6'1 LHD, 45 points in 57gp BCHL 128th overall Syomin, 6'3 LHD, 6 points in 8gp MHL (Looked good at the WJC) Add in the possibility of trading Tanev picking up another 1st round pick and taking Wilde. this i would love to see. answers in Bold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said: If we fall out of the top 3 (Dahlin/Svech/Zadina) then the target should be Adam Boqvist. He would probably be both BPA and fill our biggest need as that elite skating puck moving PP QB. Anyone of these would make me happy Dahlin Svechnikov Zadina Boqvist Wahlstrom Tkachuk Kotkaniemi Just don't pick Bouchard for god's sake, what an underwhelming outcome that would be after this brutal Canucks season. Just dont pick Boqvist for gods sake he cant play defense and will struggle against the Kopitars of the league. What a sad consolation prize that would be for missing out on Dahlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 9 hours ago, dura_mater said: I'm not too concerned about what a players DAD thinks. There have been players who themselves hate a team (one of the kids Boston drafted) but change their minds pretty quick. For all we know Brady could hate his dad and stay here to spite him. Also, do you think JB etc ask in the prospect interviews if the kid wants to be drafted by the team or if he'd stay there if they did draft him? I have to think they ask and if he says no they don't waste their time drafting him. I agree thus not drafting the first Tkachuck kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 9 hours ago, dura_mater said: Why would he leave for the KHL? He's already playing in the OHL. its not that he will leave, it is the threat that he will leave. When the entry level deal is done lets say this kid puts up 30 goals. He will leverage the KHL against the NHl to gain maximum dollars, or at least his agent better thats his job. You don't get that with the North American players and less from the Swedes. just thinking ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar baby watermelon Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, aGENT said: Then we get Boqvist! Zero problems with that. I would have no problem with this but the second this kid would get drafted by the Canucks, he would get the Tkachuk/Ehlers/Nylander treatment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocket Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said: answers in Bold I agree with these points. You don’t know who Jim Benning and crew are interested in. Last year they were looking specifically for high end skill. This year, maybe they want size and grit (JB said that’s the type of player he wanted at TDL) and they end up taking Tkachuk if he’s available. Maybe he wants a player with a high offensive ceiling so he goes of the board a bit and pick Wahlstrom The problem with BPA is, in this draft anyways, it’s entirely subjective after the top 3. There are 4 or 5 players you could justify at #4, depending on what type of player you value the most. Even the top two positions aren’t set in stone, as I’ve heard analysts (like Ryan Biech, for example) say he wouldn’t be surprised if a team in the top 3 took boqvist or Hughes. You just never ever know what’s gunna happen on draft day and what the GM is thinking for highest value player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Just now, Canadian Clay said: I agree with these points. You don’t know who Jim Benning and crew are interested in. Last year they were looking specifically for high end skill. This year, maybe they want size and grit (JB said that’s the type of player he wanted at TDL) and they end up taking Tkachuk if he’s available. Maybe he wants a player with a high offensive ceiling so he goes of the board a bit and pick Wahlstrom The problem with BPA is, in this draft anyways, it’s entirely subjective after the top 3. There are 4 or 5 players you could justify at #4, depending on what type of player you value the most. Even the top two positions aren’t set in stone, as I’ve heard analysts (like Ryan Biech, for example) say he wouldn’t be surprised if a team in the top 3 took boqvist or Hughes. You just never ever know what’s gunna happen on draft day and what the GM is thinking for highest value player this i agree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 9 hours ago, kloubek said: You quoted much in reference to Bouchard but in was talking Boqvist the entire time. Just saying.... yes you are correct because I am pushing for Bouchard not Boqvist. He is under-size basically a forward that starts on the blue line. This will help our goals against how? Evan Bouchard is 4 inches taller has more weight to him has more games in than Boqvist and is able to clear the front of the net all while piling up the points in the OHL this year. He plays both offense and defense. Boqvist, Dynamic offensively with all the room to play with in Sweden. Its different with Petterson because he can still do what he does on the smaller ice surfaces. Boqvist will not have the skating room here in North America. Bouchard is already playing his game on the smaller ice surface and still putting up the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 8 hours ago, bp79 said: From what I have been able to dig up. Almost every Russian player that bolted only bolted because he wasn't good enough to be A star in this league. Tram felt he deserved top 4 minutes, yet refused to even go to Utica for A simple conditioning stint. Truth is he wasn't a top 4 guy and didn't deserve to get paid like one or get A free pass. Besides Kovalchuk Most of the Russians who are good stay here, because if they're good they play and they get paid. This kid is so far from the guy who bolts he might as well be Canadian. Like someone else said. If this guy ends up bolting one day it's prolly cuz he turned into A bust. Ps Kesler left us high and dry FWIW I agree with you on Tryamkin, but the fact is that we all (almost) want him back and he WAS capable of a role on this team.. he just wanted a bigger role than he was ready for. But I did a little digging myself, and it actually doesn't seem to be quite as bad as I thought. As for Kesler - yes, of course any player can demand a trade to another team. Unfortunately, that's a reality in the NHL and one that is hard to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said: yes you are correct because I am pushing for Bouchard not Boqvist. He is under-size basically a forward that starts on the blue line. This will help our goals against how? Evan Bouchard is 4 inches taller has more weight to him has more games in than Boqvist and is able to clear the front of the net all while piling up the points in the OHL this year. He plays both offense and defense. Boqvist, Dynamic offensively with all the room to play with in Sweden. Its different with Petterson because he can still do what he does on the smaller ice surfaces. Boqvist will not have the skating room here in North America. Bouchard is already playing his game on the smaller ice surface and still putting up the points. Pretty much undeniable points you've made, but we're guessing at things like Boqvist not being able to do what he does on a smaller surface. (I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm just saying that we don't know). In my opinion, a guy that dynamic has to think fast as to what he's doing out there to the point of being a natural instinct, and I think he would be able to adapt to the smaller surface as a result. You bring up a good point though, as there is something to be said about whether or not a player can make a strong transition to the NHL game - both ice size and several other aspects. Still, when I see Boqvist out there, he's a real treat to watch. I'm dazzled by his ability to undress the defenders and he skates like he's being controlled by a joystick. It's so fun to watch, and I just don't see that complete offensive game out of a guy like Bouchard. But as you said, Bouchard adds size and I'll take your word for it that he adds a more defensive game, since I haven't seen that aspect of his play, but that's always important as well. I guess I've been really focused on the fact that this defense we have just can't score. So if we were to draft a guy to eventually fit into that new core, I want him to be highly dynamic and able to pile up the points from back there. Dahlin would be supreme but since we won't likely get 1OA, imo Boqvist is the next best thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said: And yes it will have need influence thus why they took Juolevi over Tkachuck. They took the best D that was available And how did that turn out. You might not like him but Tkachuk is a star and Calgary’s heart and soul. I didn’t want to bring up 2016 but since you did I will dive into it. Canucks headed into the 2016 draft with the 5thoverall, 33rd overall, 64th overall, and 94th overall. We traded away the 33rd and the 94th overall pick and took a D with the 5th overall because “team need” but consider the option of having taken Tkachuk 5th overall, not trading for Guddy and having taken a D with picks in rounds 2-4. Just look at the D taken within 7 spots of our picks. Hajek 37th overall, Fox 66th overall, Mete 100th overall. All three of those D have a strong possibility to be as good it not better than Juolevi. And we’d passed on a 1st line PWF putting up over 25 goals a year. To make matters worse using our first pick based on team needs doesn’t appear to have filled our need for a top pairing #1 D, hence our hope for taking another D in the first round this year. Listen you’re getting stuck on what the meaning of BPA is. You’re trying to use physical attributes and team needs as a justification for BPA, which is in fact that exact opposite of picking BPA. Physical attributes don’t determine how good you will become. I could care less that Bogosian is 6’3 RHD when if I had the choice I’d take 5’11 LHD Gostisbehere over him every day of the week regardless of how crowed our left side is. I’m telling you, I want Canucks to pick BPA, regardless of position, size, team need, or country born from. I want to leave the first round of draft, having selected the player with the most talent and brightest future. I don’t care if we have someone similar in our prospect pool, we are rebuilding and our biggest focus is on amassing talent, we are not at a place where we can pass on talent in favour or a team need, because as of today everything is a team need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 hours ago, dura_mater said: Well if you scroll down someone says they captured it off a video. Hardly a leak as the draft was probably over by the time they got it. I'm not hating, just not sure it's considered a leak. Interesting nonetheless. Yeah I wasn’t trying to say it was a leak, more just trying to show where canucks ranked Boeser on there list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, kloubek said: Pretty much undeniable points you've made, but we're guessing at things like Boqvist not being able to do what he does on a smaller surface. (I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm just saying that we don't know). In my opinion, a guy that dynamic has to think fast as to what he's doing out there to the point of being a natural instinct, and I think he would be able to adapt to the smaller surface as a result. You bring up a good point though, as there is something to be said about whether or not a player can make a strong transition to the NHL game - both ice size and several other aspects. Still, when I see Boqvist out there, he's a real treat to watch. I'm dazzled by his ability to undress the defenders and he skates like he's being controlled by a joystick. It's so fun to watch, and I just don't see that complete offensive game out of a guy like Bouchard. But as you said, Bouchard adds size and I'll take your word for it that he adds a more defensive game, since I haven't seen that aspect of his play, but that's always important as well. I guess I've been really focused on the fact that this defense we have just can't score. So if we were to draft a guy to eventually fit into that new core, I want him to be highly dynamic and able to pile up the points from back there. Dahlin would be supreme but since we won't likely get 1OA, imo Boqvist is the next best thing. I get your points and again I am also only stating my opinion but what I am looking at is watching a guy like Stecher , who is that skating offensive type defenseman try to defend against mark Staal in the Minny game. He just cant handle him and Staal is just one of a number of this type of forward we face in this division. Its not that I am not impressed by Boqvists skating ability and his offensive flair. I am just looking for the total package. We do need to draft a new core especially 1 and 2 D we have lots of bottom 6 options if any of these players we have today remain in 4 years. I am just looking for us to upgrade the D and this draft has a lot of options in the first round to get a Doughty type player. We have never had a Norris Defenseman. We need to start with one this year, Hopefully Dahlin. But if not i think the best D in the draft outside of him is Bouchard. Again just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Sugar baby watermelon said: I would have no problem with this but the second this kid would get drafted by the Canucks, he would get the Tkachuk/Ehlers/Nylander treatment..... Or the Pettersson reaction immediately after the draft Sadly you're probably right about some people in this fan base/media. Actually the Pettersson situation is probably a good 'comparable'. A highly skilled Swede, young for the draft and on the smaller side who hasn't had much exposure over here. Boqvist's is basically the D version of that same scenario. Hopefully history repeats, screw all the haters 1 hour ago, Canadian Clay said: The problem with BPA is, in this draft anyways, it’s entirely subjective after the top 3. There are 4 or 5 players you could justify at #4, depending on what type of player you value the most. Even the top two positions aren’t set in stone, as I’ve heard analysts (like Ryan Biech, for example) say he wouldn’t be surprised if a team in the top 3 took boqvist or Hughes. You just never ever know what’s gunna happen on draft day and what the GM is thinking for highest value player It's not just this draft. Last year there wasn't even a consensus on 1st OA and the top 10 or so, could (and did) go in just about any order. And even in most 'good' drafts, once you get past 1st, the top 3 and especially the top 5, it gets increasingly murky. And I agree, depending on teams picking, we could see all manor of changes to the 'consensus'. Now none of this is likely per se, but it's all quite possible: A team at 2 might take Zadina over Svech. If they don't, someone might value Boqvist, Hughes or Tkachuck higher than Zadina at 3, potentially dropping him to 4th or even 5th. Even if the top 3 go as expected, as you noted, the players generally ranked 4-8'ish could go in basically any order. And even there, one of the guys most people have from say 9-12'ish could sneak in to the top 8. It's NOWHERE near as linear as some people on CDC make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said: If we fall out of the top 3 (Dahlin/Svech/Zadina) then the target should be Adam Boqvist. He would probably be both BPA and fill our biggest need as that elite skating puck moving PP QB. Anyone of these would make me happy Dahlin Svechnikov Zadina Boqvist Wahlstrom Tkachuk Kotkaniemi Just don't pick Bouchard for god's sake, what an underwhelming outcome that would be after this brutal Canucks season. I disagree. Bouchard is who I want if the top 3 are unavailable. He’s played with Juolevi already, he’s his teams captain, he’s the top scorer as an underage defenceman. He’s a few points behind Ellis who is a stud at 5’9. Bouchard is 6’2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: And how did that turn out. You might not like him but Tkachuk is a star and Calgary’s heart and soul. I didn’t want to bring up 2016 but since you did I will dive into it. Canucks headed into the 2016 draft with the 5thoverall, 33rd overall, 64th overall, and 94th overall. We traded away the 33rd and the 94th overall pick and took a D with the 5th overall because “team need” but consider the option of having taken Tkachuk 5th overall, not trading for Guddy and having taken a D with picks in rounds 2-4. Just look at the D taken within 7 spots of our picks. Hajek 37th overall, Fox 66th overall, Mete 100th overall. All three of those D have a strong possibility to be as good it not better than Juolevi. And we’d passed on a 1st line PWF putting up over 25 goals a year. To make matters worse using our first pick based on team needs doesn’t appear to have filled our need for a top pairing #1 D, hence our hope for taking another D in the first round this year. Listen you’re getting stuck on what the meaning of BPA is. You’re trying to use physical attributes and team needs as a justification for BPA, which is in fact that exact opposite of picking BPA. Physical attributes don’t determine how good you will become. I could care less that Bogosian is 6’3 RHD when if I had the choice I’d take 5’11 LHD Gostisbehere over him every day of the week regardless of how crowed our left side is. I’m telling you, I want Canucks to pick BPA, regardless of position, size, team need, or country born from. I want to leave the first round of draft, having selected the player with the most talent and brightest future. I don’t care if we have someone similar in our prospect pool, we are rebuilding and our biggest focus is on amassing talent, we are not at a place where we can pass on talent in favour or a team need, because as of today everything is a team need. Again I am telling you the best Player available does not come down to what YOU or I think!!!. We took Juolevi because he was a team need and as far as Benning was concerned he was the BPA, we do not know why we passed on Tkachuck. As i have stated before the family does not like Vancouver and there is no indication that just because we would have picked him we would have had him suit up. During interviews with the team they may have told Benning that they did not wish to play in Vancouver. I am assuming some things here but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that players and their management talk to the team before the draft. I am sure they would tell them if they had a preference not to play somewhere so saying we could have had the Tkachuck kid is a wasted argument. and this goes for Brady as well. 5 ' 11 Gostisbehere is the smallest D on the team at 5'11. when smaller players play with a bigger lineup they can play bigger. He is a talent for sure but Tampa bay has a better defense. Look at that lineup and then tell me whey they are so successful. they have it all. Great goalie, who may be made better by that D or vice versa. Great skating D with size that will be able to live through the playoff grind. Skating forwards who can put pressure on the other teams D and scoring. The complete package. Build our team like that. Build our D like that. Get bigger at the back end and stop trying to play a forward at the D spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, kloubek said: Pretty much undeniable points you've made, but we're guessing at things like Boqvist not being able to do what he does on a smaller surface. (I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm just saying that we don't know). In my opinion, a guy that dynamic has to think fast as to what he's doing out there to the point of being a natural instinct, and I think he would be able to adapt to the smaller surface as a result. You bring up a good point though, as there is something to be said about whether or not a player can make a strong transition to the NHL game - both ice size and several other aspects. Still, when I see Boqvist out there, he's a real treat to watch. I'm dazzled by his ability to undress the defenders and he skates like he's being controlled by a joystick. It's so fun to watch, and I just don't see that complete offensive game out of a guy like Bouchard. But as you said, Bouchard adds size and I'll take your word for it that he adds a more defensive game, since I haven't seen that aspect of his play, but that's always important as well. I guess I've been really focused on the fact that this defense we have just can't score. So if we were to draft a guy to eventually fit into that new core, I want him to be highly dynamic and able to pile up the points from back there. Dahlin would be supreme but since we won't likely get 1OA, imo Boqvist is the next best thing. Just chiming in here, curious about how Bomquist is considered to be a top OFD yet there are concerns about his size, defence and the ability to translate his game from the Euro ice to the NA ice. While Bouchard plays a NA game, scores from the blue line consistently and actually plays defence. The knock on him is the same knock on Gaunce, Horvat, Boeser and OJ. The first three steps. But his passing game, IQ and shot are top shelf. From what I see from Bouchards game is that he sees the ice exceptionally well, that his game is calm and cool. Something that we live in the NHL, but somehow it is disliked in prospects. I am curious about the Combine. IMO, Bouchard’s skating abilities are hard to determine because he has such effective passing, shot and awareness. He doesn’t need to skate around in circles and therefore can be effective for more minutes. EmW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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