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2018 NHL Entry Draft


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9 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:

Has to be the right package for him but I agree. its not like tanev is making this team more competitive and he's constantly injured. Trade him, worst you'll get is a first+ whereas realistically you should be able to get a 1st+an A prospect such as Liljegrin. 

 

Personally I think Benning needs to make some real moves this offseason. Trade Tanev, Nilsson and Baertschi as well as Gagner or Sutter if you can. Sign some UFAs like Vanek to flip at the deadline and then bring up prospects then from Utica. Start the season with a crap team like we have currently and then see an influx of youth next deadline.

I think it more likely with the draft show being in vancouver next year that you'll see the moves made then.  I also want movement this year and feel there's a chance we could get a solid return but feel it's more likely with injuries and the current market on defensemen, OEL/Karlsson/Carlson that the 2019 draft in vancouver is where Benning will try to recoup some assets to give the fans a show worth attending

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Hockey db is a great site for player statistic but is not that great at being up to date on height and weight. You’re better pulling information directly from there teams site. And neither player is 5’9

Agreed.  DB is slow to update, even after the combine they still have guys listed at their pre season weight.  Elite and even Dobber can be more accurate mid to late season

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4 hours ago, drummerboy said:

I know I keep hearing the league is getting smaller and faster blah blah blah blah. 

I just can't get behind drafting a dman that is 5'9.  Boqvist and Hughes are both tiny.   I know there is skill there, but there was skill with Subban too.  

Tiny dman, while may be on the uprise, are still few and far between. 

 

Im super torn here.  

I love the skill.  I just can't get behind drafting a defenseman that is the same height as my wife.  

Being 6'4", if she blocks my way, and I want to get past, I totally can.  Lol. 

 

You are at an automatic disadvantage when you are that small. Say what you want, but being 6-7 inches and 40 pounds smaller than the person you are supposed to stop is a major issue.  

Yes I know there are like.....4 dman that size that do good, but none that are known as a great defensive player in comparison.   

If offense is all that matters, sure, but then why didn't they just use Subban?

Come on DB, this is just the flip side of the same level of ignorance that had people demanding we 'just give JS a chance!'

 

There are pretty obvious reasons why one is ranked at +/-4th overall in a deep draft, and one went late in the 4th round. And it has nothing to to with their size.

 

Never mind that Subban is 2" shorter and only roughly 15 lbs heavier now at 23 than Boqvist is at 17 years old. He's quite likely going to be 6'+ and damn near (if not slightly over) 200lbs when fully grown. With elite skating (speed and maneuverability), elite shooting, and high IQ.

 

You're also at a disadvantage when you're bigger and get turn-styled by small, fast forwards. You need a mix of both. Right now, we're utterly lacking in his 'mix'.

 

 

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Mark Edwards from hockey prospects.com was talking about why Bouchard isn’t rated higher (he has him all the way down at 15).  He said it’s because the kids lack compete, doesn’t play with much emotion and is lazy, constantly getting beat along the boards in battles he shouldn’t be losing.  His numbers are impressive but Dale Hunter loves to inflate his players numbers, they could be up 5-0 and he’d still be putting out his #1 PP unit for the full two minutes.  32 of his points are on the powerplay.  He’s got sense but when the competition gets stronger, will he be able to up his play when his complete level is so poor at the OHL level.

 

 Sounds very similar to Dougie Hamilton who currently leads NHL d in goals and consistently puts up numbers but yet no one ever considers he an elite D, he’s not even considered a #1 D becuase of his lack of compete level. 

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9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Man would I love another pick in that 5-15 range. 

 

Nab Boqvist (or Gordie willing, Dahlin) with our 1st and then get one of Bouchard, Wilde, Smith, Dobson etc with the other with moving Tanev.

 

 

NYI will likely have 2 picks in the top 15 (if calgary doesn’t make playoffs) maybe they’d be willing to move 1 for tanman?

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10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Man would I love another pick in that 5-15 range. 

 

Nab Boqvist (or Gordie willing, Dahlin) with our 1st and then get one of Bouchard, Wilde, Smith, Dobson etc with the other with moving Tanev.

 

 

That would be a dream scenario. Our prospect pool would be stacked, adding two top dmen to OJ.

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21 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Mark Edwards from hockey prospects.com was talking about why Bouchard isn’t rated higher (he has him all the way down at 15).  He said it’s because the kids lack compete, doesn’t play with much emotion and is lazy, constantly getting beat along the boards in battles he shouldn’t be losing.  His numbers are impressive but Dale Hunter loves to inflate his players numbers, they could be up 5-0 and he’d still be putting out his #1 PP unit for the full two minutes.  32 of his points are on the powerplay.  He’s got sense but when the competition gets stronger, will he be able to up his play when his complete level is so poor at the OHL level.

 

 Sounds very similar to Dougie Hamilton who currently leads NHL d in goals and consistently puts up numbers but yet no one ever considers he an elite D, he’s not even considered a #1 D becuase of his lack of compete level. 

 

Hamilton was a comparable that I used. Very good offensive offensive defenseman, but not good enough overall to be a Pietrangelo type.

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3 minutes ago, Canadian Clay said:

NYI will likely have 2 picks in the top 15 (if calgary doesn’t make playoffs) maybe they’d be willing to move 1 for tanman?

They'd certainly be on my speed dial if I was Benning. Two picks and a LOT of motivation to show Tavares they're serious about upgrading the team around him.

 

Shame we probably missed the boat on nabbing Pulock from them though. Honestly don't know what the other piece coming back would be beyond one of their 1sts. And no, I don't think they'd send both nor do we likely do a deal without an actual NHL asset/solid prospect coming back.

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3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

They'd certainly be on my speed dial if I was Benning. Two picks and a LOT of motivation to show Tavares they're serious about upgrading the team around him.

 

Shame we probably missed the boat on nabbing Pulock from them though. Honestly don't know what the other piece coming back would be beyond one of their 1sts. And no, I don't think they'd send both nor do we likely do a deal without an actual NHL asset/solid prospect coming back.

I stand by it.  Two 1sts.  Two seconds.  Pulock.  Next years 1st for Karlsson.

 

Makes a ton of sense for both clubs with pieces subject to change or exclusion 

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1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I stand by it.  Two 1sts.  Two seconds.  Pulock.  Next years 1st for Karlsson.

 

Makes a ton of sense for both clubs with pieces subject to change or exclusion 

OTT would be lucky if they get that haul IMO.

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18 hours ago, aGENT said:

His 19 year old (2 years older) brother is 6' and 181lbs. J.S. dreams of being that size now, let alone at 19.

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=212690

THANK YOU aGENT,
I have been reading through the last 30 pages of this discussion waiting to build my case for the abundant worry about Boqvist's size.

Eith everyone saying he is too small or will get pushed around.... His brother was a late birthday in the 2017 draft. He is about 18+ months older & already 6'0" and 180+ lbs. With Adam being one of the youngest in the draft, he has time to add another inch of height & 10-20 lbs in the next 2-3yrs.
Last year there were people crying about Makar playing in a lesser league, but nothing about his size. Guy is 5'11 and 180lbs right now.  

 

Taking a snap shot at the top point producing Dmen in the NHL as of today.....
Klingberg has most points & he is 6'2, however a stringy 180lbs.

Karlsson... Ghost... Krug... Barrie... Letang are all up near the top.

Players like Boqvist, Makar, Ty Smith are built for the NHL right now. With superb skating & heads up hockey IQ. Bouchard is has good IQ & likely will be an NHL defender. However this blueline has no one with the Boqvist skillset coming. That's a gamble I'd take 10 times out of 10.
 

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28 minutes ago, aGENT said:

They'd certainly be on my speed dial if I was Benning. Two picks and a LOT of motivation to show Tavares they're serious about upgrading the team around him.

 

Shame we probably missed the boat on nabbing Pulock from them though. Honestly don't know what the other piece coming back would be beyond one of their 1sts. And no, I don't think they'd send both nor do we likely do a deal without an actual NHL asset/solid prospect coming back.

I would do Tanev for 10-15th overall straight up. I know JB probably wouldn’t do I guess it’s a bit of a pipe dream. I just really want to come out of this draft with two top pairing potential D lol. Maybe we get lucky and Merkley falls to the second round and we grab him and he actually develops. The guy has one of the highest ceilings in the draft but also has major bust potential so it’s risky

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14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I was actually speaking of Hughes in that link as a comparable.

 

But to be honest I think Hughes would be a safer pick than Boqvist.  Comparable skating comparable size but we KNOW Hughes can play on the smaller surfaces.  Boqvist though with his penchant for back off at the blueline and his extra 20 feet of ice to make his moves would be penned in far far quicker on a NA ice surface and see a lot of his passes broken up, his fancy skating would be shadowed by pure world class NHL defenders and centers; who let's be honest.  Are a step above the AHL almost to a person

 

Skating is the only thing separating Hughes and Boqvist from Bouchard for me.  but those people claiming that "they can grow" are the same people claiming Bouchard can't improve his skating.  Which baffles me.  You can improve skating far easier than you can grow 3 inches and 20 pounds

Your right. Skating is easier to improve than height but let's not expect Hughes or Boqvist to hit 6'2". I think if Boqvist can even grow one more inch he would be a good size for this NHL. He is not in the really small group of D men so even if he stayed the same height which I find unlikely it would be Karlsson height. I also think you discount his skill level. You make a big deal about how Hughes has proven he can play on the small ice but obviously the scouts have decided that Boqvist will be able to easily adapt to the smaller ice otherwise he would be a second or third round pick and not a top 5. Not saying I'm right but I'm sure majority of NHL scouts will say they have no issues with him transitioning. Also by making this generalized statement you would've missed out on drafting players like Karlsson, ekman-larsson and klingberg who by all accounts were nowhere near the skill level of Boqvist at the same age.

 

I like Hughes too but he is an early birthday so I don't expect him to grow much more and he is smaller than Boqvist. Supremely talented but he is more of a 7-9 pick for me. 

 

Don't get me wrong I would fully support if the draft table chose Bouchard and I am impressed by his production but I still say we should go for the higher ceiling. 

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35 minutes ago, aGENT said:

They'd certainly be on my speed dial if I was Benning. Two picks and a LOT of motivation to show Tavares they're serious about upgrading the team around him.

 

Shame we probably missed the boat on nabbing Pulock from them though. Honestly don't know what the other piece coming back would be beyond one of their 1sts. And no, I don't think they'd send both nor do we likely do a deal without an actual NHL asset/solid prospect coming back.

I don’t think they do anything until tavares is signed. It would be a complete waste to give up to big assets for a player like tanev if tavares leaves. 

 

If tavares does leave would you rather tanev for a rebuild or two top 15 picks in a really dee draft. 

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2 minutes ago, Canadian Clay said:

I would do Tanev for 10-15th overall straight up. I know JB probably wouldn’t do I guess it’s a bit of a pipe dream. I just really want to come out of this draft with two top pairing potential D lol. Maybe we get lucky and Merkley falls to the second round and we grab him and he actually develops. The guy has one of the highest ceilings in the draft but also has major bust potential so it’s risky

Yeah, we definitely need something more than just a 10-15 pick for Tanev, even if we need to add a bit to make it happen. Hard to say what they'd want or what they'd be willing to give up though.

 

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don’t think they do anything until tavares is signed. It would be a complete waste to give up to big assets for a player like tanev if tavares leaves. 

 

If tavares does leave would you rather tanev for a rebuild or two top 15 picks in a really dee draft. 

But does Tavares sign if they don't show some dedication to building a contender around him...? Chicken meet egg.

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5 hours ago, drummerboy said:

I know I keep hearing the league is getting smaller and faster blah blah blah blah. 

I just can't get behind drafting a dman that is 5'9.  Boqvist and Hughes are both tiny.   I know there is skill there, but there was skill with Subban too.  

Tiny dman, while may be on the uprise, are still few and far between. 

 

Im super torn here.  

I love the skill.  I just can't get behind drafting a defenseman that is the same height as my wife.  

Being 6'4", if she blocks my way, and I want to get past, I totally can.  Lol. 

 

You are at an automatic disadvantage when you are that small. Say what you want, but being 6-7 inches and 40 pounds smaller than the person you are supposed to stop is a major issue.  

Yes I know there are like.....4 dman that size that do good, but none that are known as a great defensive player in comparison.   

If offense is all that matters, sure, but then why didn't they just use Subban?

Love your post. Gave me a good laugh about the comparable but can your wife skate around you in circles and make you look silly on the ice? I think one thing we have to take into consideration is that the NHL is transitioning to possession numbers and corsi. As a d man if I can generate more offensive chances (and quality ones at that) then ones that I give up I will be ahead in the long run. Also the quicker and easier I can get the puck up to one of my forwards the less time in your own zone potentially creating more offensive chances for the other team. This is why Florida got rid of gudbranson, he didn't fit their corsi model because he was able to contain players but wasn't able to get the puck out hence giving up more chances than need be.

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4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yeah, we definitely need something more than just a 10-15 pick for Tanev, even if we need to add a bit to make it happen. Hard to say what they'd want or what they'd be willing to give up though.

 

But does Tavares sign if they don't show some dedication to building a contender around him...? Chicken meet egg.

I don’t think tavares RHD decision will have to do with whether tanev is on the roster. They went out and got his buddy eberle last summer and he still looks like waiting to find out. I think it would be a big risk for them to take the gamble and trade peice to appease a player who could still walk at the end of the day. That’s likely why they didn’t make any moves at TD despite being right in the playoff hunt. 

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2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don’t think tavares RHD decision will have to do with whether tanev is on the roster. They went out and got his buddy eberle last summer and he still looks like waiting to find out. I think it would be a big risk for them to take the gamble and trade peice to appease a player who could still walk at the end of the day. That’s likely why they didn’t make any moves at TD despite being right in the playoff hunt. 

I'm not saying they just go making moves willy-nilly. Clearly they'd have to talk to Tavares and if nothing else have a pretty clear indication of his plans - assuming they were to make moves. 

 

It wouldn't surprise me in the least for them to have a deal basically worked out with him waiting to see the moves actually done before he signs.

 

 

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Wouldn't mind taking ulfs boy Adam samuelsson in rounds 3 through 5. Skating is ok but it can be fixable, high hockey is, and has been a pillar Wilde can lean on. The bonus is he is 6 foot 5 and 240 pounds already.

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27 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm not saying they just go making moves willy-nilly. Clearly they'd have to talk to Tavares and if nothing else have a pretty clear indication of his plans - assuming they were to make moves. 

 

It wouldn't surprise me in the least for them to have a deal basically worked out with him waiting to see the moves actually done before he signs.

Last I heard is tavares is looking for 12-14 million, that it’s less about the arena location, playoffs this year and more about price tag

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