Canuck Surfer Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 31 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said: Better athletes... Very subjective until the combine I'm enthusiastic that you brought this up. But as an ex coach, no I cannot agree that it is subjective. No one was surprised when Jake won the fastest skater? Maybe turned a few eyes when he was fastest backwards. Or Kessel best vertical leap back in the day? They always blew past opponents on the ice. No one will, or should be, be surprised when Hughes is top 3 in agility drills. And they should not be surprised, but they will be when he & Boqvist rank among highest in peak power output. As will Smith & Svech will, who also have great endurance & power. Explosive power, breakaway speed & endurance can be observed in watching games and film all day every day. Subjective? People may not know in advance who will have the best grip strength. Or wont be able to do a pull up. Two things stand out at the combines for me; > The best athletes stand out! Although it can be a surprise if you automatically expect a top point getter, say Shinkaruk, to be the top athlete. The Windgate max and average output tests are as near a perfect test you could design to measure whether a guy has the juice to play at max output for a 30 second shift. Guys you watch give it (Svechnikov, Smith) all shift & every shift, plus have explosive power skating routinely win these. Guys with speed, who coast (see Jake, Kessel) may still be great athletes, win the vertical or a straight line skating drill, can still get exposed. That SHOULD not be a surprise however if you observe who can, and cannot, motor an entire shift? Have the jam at the end of a shift to battle for the puck... Nylander clearly had explosive speed, endurance & agility, unsurprisingly he was among top tested Windgate athletes. As was Petterson BTW. > The details also tell you what the interviews should! What do I mean by this? Well.. Maybe just maybe no one should be surprised the same 18 year old Sam Bennett who could not do a pull up, is now struggling? If he did not take it serious then, will he do the work at 21? By contrast, BO HORVAT was among leaders in the aerobic endurance test, as was Gaunce (who also did well on the Windgate) at their combines. The point is they were very FIT, and took it serious. Shinkaruk did not do great either. But Bo, nor Gaunce was a great skater. Here we are 4 and 5 years later, unlike Sam Bennet, the guys who took it serious are again overcoming challenges by again putting the work in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Farabee is an intriguing player. He's 5'11 and 160 lbs, but there are some people who think he has absolutely elite offensive instincts. I can't say I've watched him play too much, but he sounds like a potential home run pick for whoever lands him. Just plain nasty through the neutral zone. Very good at creating turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar baby watermelon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Farabee is an intriguing player. He's 5'11 and 160 lbs, but there are some people who think he has absolutely elite offensive instincts. I can't say I've watched him play too much, but he sounds like a potential home run pick for whoever lands him. Farabee playing on a line with Jack Hughes and Wahlstrom, man I would love to see those guys play, strike fear into opposing D and goalies eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Sugar baby watermelon said: ah shoot, attitude issues too, both him and Merkley I hear now.... any links or stories you are aware of, I couldn't find any on Merkley but I heard somewhere on here I think https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/players/ryan-merkley "Perhaps most notably is Ryan Merkley at #11, as the dynamic Guelph defenseman has slipped to the back half of the first round in most other rankings. McKenzie explains why, noting Merkley’s perceived attitude problem and temperament as potential reasons for his fall." I can't find anything in 30 seconds on Bokk, but I remember reading it before. Honestly, each player's individual thread on hfboards are usually pretty informative as there are people who actually watch these players throughout the year. Over here, most people (including myself) are mostly going on rankings, reports, etc. unless there's an odd CHL game on Sportsnet. I'd recommend sifting through those if/when you have some spare time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 33 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: The only player who's a pure "athlete" physically in the top-5 is Svechnikov. Even Dahlin doesn't have the same physical tools. Boqvist might end up being second, but that's assuming he grows a couple of inches and adds 20-25lbs while maintaining his fluid skating. There are guys who have one exceptional trait that is very tough to match (Getzlaf's size, Hughes' skating, etc.) and can prove to be effective though. Bouchard does not have any overwhelming physical attributes. I remember Chychrun's physical traits were a major factor during his draft. He was one of the few players who could likely hold his own against a Getzlaf type while also being agile enough to keep up with a Kane/Keller type. His biggest question mark was decision making. The only big athlete maybe? Although I whole heartily agree about his ability. Zadina has explosive speed & agility. Dahlin is off the charts for balance, dexterity, puck handling, power moving forward or backwards, can shift his hips & jump nearly 8 feet side to side on the rush. I'm on record as liking Brady more than his brother because he is faster at draft age. Don't sleep on Boqvist being a good athlete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 hours ago, aGENT said: Goldobin doesn't have anything close to that value on his own. No. That's not what you asked and that's not what I answered though. Lol yah i thought that’s what you were getting at, I’m super curious to weather jim uses this big stock pile of average/good prospects and tries to turn it into a few elites or high end picks or if he keeps stabbing at the draft making our prospect pool the deepest it’s ever been with good potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: The only big athlete maybe? Although I whole heartily agree about his ability. Zadina has explosive speed & agility. Dahlin is off the charts for balance, dexterity, puck handling, power moving forward or backwards, can shift his hips & jump nearly 8 feet side to side on the rush. I'm on record as liking Brady more than his brother because he is faster at draft age. Don't sleep on Boqvist being a good athlete? Just once, wouldn't it be nice to have that 1st overall? I think we really deserve it Seriously, as long as we can grab one of those first 4 guys. If we wound up with Svechnikov, it would give us the flexibility to move someone else up front for more help on defense. I wonder if adding another Russian, might help bring Tryamkin back in a couple more years as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, Canuck Surfer said: The only big athlete maybe? Although I whole heartily agree about his ability. Zadina has explosive speed & agility. Dahlin is off the charts for balance, dexterity, puck handling, power moving forward or backwards, can shift his hips & jump nearly 8 feet side to side on the rush. I'm on record as liking Brady more than his brother because he is faster at draft age. Don't sleep on Boqvist being a good athlete? I watched Zadina play last week. His speed is good, but it's not anything exceptional. He's not slow, just not as fast. A while back I posted a tweet that showed the time it took McDavid, Svechnikov and Zadina to move from blue line to blue line. McDavid obviously won, but Svechnikov was fairly close behind while Zadina was almost a full second behind. Dahlin is exceptional at all the things you mentioned, but if you had a race around the rink, I think Svechnikov would win. That doesn't make him a better player or anything, it just means Svechnikov has more physical tools when you factor in his size, strength and agility too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: I watched Zadina play last week. His speed is good, but it's not anything exceptional. He's not slow, just not as fast. A while back I posted a tweet that showed the time it took McDavid, Svechnikov and Zadina to move from blue line to blue line. McDavid obviously won, but Svechnikov was fairly close behind while Zadina was almost a full second behind. Dahlin is exceptional at all the things you mentioned, but if you had a race around the rink, I think Svechnikov would win. That doesn't make him a better player or anything, it just means Svechnikov has more physical tools when you factor in his size, strength and agility too. Svech might even be first overall; if generational D men were more common. Or a pivot not a winger. He is a ridiculously good athlete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Very creative play. I can't see many players thinking of attempting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Sugar baby watermelon said: who do you guys want the Canucks to take with their 2nd round pick? which dman or forward catches your eye? From what I hear Barrett Hayton is a centre and comparable to Patrice Bergeron, very much a defensive forward and also very capable of providing alot of offense. Jonny Tychonik is a defenceman from the BCHL who knows how to distribute the puck really well but is 5ft11. Without a crystal ball as to where we draft (33?) or who has fallen? I like Sandin if he makes it that far. Jet Woo?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 23 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Look, I'm in my own world as well. I have craved a D man who can juke, deke & dazzle for years! Break down opposing teams! And I do not for a moment disrespect for a moment a guy, like Bouchard, who constantly has a knack for making the fundamentally sound right play? But Boqvist has an agility few possess, puck skills, explosive speed. Once the game, as you have noted on N American ice with the speed and size of NHL opposition surfaces? It's my estimation that those skills, regardless of having played on a larger surface to date, will allow him to be the more dynamic player than Bouchard. The same question can be raised, is will Bouchard, a guy who in his own words, excels by making the simple play, be able to operate under much heavier pressure? Will the same simple play be available, and will he be create one if its not? Listen to Bouchards interview, 35 ot 45 second mark... Like Tkachuk for many of the same reasons (plus scrappiness) as a forward, I certainly believe he will be fine. I'm just craving that top end, explosive & elite skill! I hear you on the skill and speed, I am looking for someone to keep players off of our goalie.. Both important things. i just think the speed up front is more important than at the back. I dont like small Defensemen its as simple as that. I get your point. We just disagree. I would like the skating D man that brings the speed to be bigger. Plain and simple. They need to be able to clear the crease pass the puck to the forwards which Evan does extremely well. I dont see Boqvist being able to do what he does in Sweden here in the NHL. Too small ice surface and bigger men that will shut him down and hurt him in the corners. I understand your points tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 15 hours ago, guntrix said: If you've really watched him play, you'd admit that it's decent at best. You'd be better off lauding him for his passing and getting pucks through on net. That's not to say he can't improve it though. If we're being honest, most of your posts in this thread seem to trend on the size and physicality side. Boqvist is a 17 year-old kid (almost a full year younger than Bouchard) who's 5'11" 170 pounds. That's not that bad for a 17 year-old. What happens when he inevitably grows and puts on weight? Don't limit yourself to just thinking in the now. I am not thinking in the now i am thinking ahead by 4 yrs. I know we need to completely re build this defense. Every time i say that people point to Mcenemy, or Brisebois, but in reality the only D man that will probably be here in 4 years is Juolevi who was Bouchards D partner in London. Unless Tryamkin comes back which is still a big IF As for thinking ahead I see Boqvist being hurt in the smaller ice both in skating room and being physically hurt in the corners. he is not a good size there are a tone of players in this draft that are 17 or turning 18 that are over 6 feet and at least 190 lbs. Noah Dobson. I would pick him over Boqvist. Wilde Bahl all bigger players that can skate and move the puck. Just think ahead to the punishment the playoffs dish out and think Boqvist will survive. Size with skill . Dont give up the skill to get the bigger man , pick the bigger man with the skill.. Think Tampa bay. Look at their D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said: I hear you on the skill and speed, I am looking for someone to keep players off of our goalie.. Both important things. i just think the speed up front is more important than at the back. I dont like small Defensemen its as simple as that. I get your point. We just disagree. I would like the skating D man that brings the speed to be bigger. Plain and simple. They need to be able to clear the crease pass the puck to the forwards which Evan does extremely well. I dont see Boqvist being able to do what he does in Sweden here in the NHL. Too small ice surface and bigger men that will shut him down and hurt him in the corners. I understand your points tho. No, Boqvist won't be clearing Lucic from the crease? But Spurgeon closes out rushing forwards better than Edler for example. And keeps them from turning the corner on the goalie. A balanced pair might have a Gudbranson to balance a pair. Drafting, you have to take the BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, aGENT said: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=265684 ADAM BOQVIST HEIGHT 180 cm / 5'11" WEIGHT 77 kg / 170 lbs And again, one of the youngest players in the draft. He will grow and he's not even that small for a freaking 17 year old He will get better in his own end. He's too smart and skilled not to. His 2 year older brother is 6' and 181lbs FWIW at a still young, 19. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=212690 EVAN BOUCHARD Last team: London Knights - 2018 Tweet views: 52887 BIRTHYEAR 1999-10-20 BIRTHPLACE Oakville, ON, CAN AGE 18 NATION Canada POSITION D SHOOTS R HEIGHT 188 cm / 6'2" WEIGHT 87 kg / 192 lbs YOUTH TEAM Oakville MHA NHL DRAFT Top Prospect eligible for the 2018 NHL Entry Draft RANKINGS Ranked #15 by Hockeyprospect.com Ranked #6 by ISS Hockey Ranked #10 by Future Considerations Ranked #7 by McKeen's Hockey Ranked #5 by NHL Central Scouting (NA Skaters) SOCIAL HIGHLIGHTS 1 A highly intelligent all-around defenceman that plays with poise and can shift the pace of play in a multitude of ways. Showcases smooth four-way skating ability and loves to get involved in all situations - especially when that situation happens to be an up-ice rush. Has a polished offensive skill-set which includes well-timed passes and a sneaky, erratic shot. Goes with the high percentage play and makes smart decisions. Could work on strength behind his shot. Defensively active, cutting off lanes and always staying in excellent positioning. Reads cues well in all three zones and seems to stay a step ahead. All-in-all, a well-rounded defender with great hockey sense and work ethic. (Curtis Joe, EP 2017) © Photo: Dan Hickling Mobile puck moving D with excellent offensive instincts & ability to read the game, ISS Hockey 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: No, Boqvist won't be clearing Lucic from the crease? But Spurgeon closes out rushing forwards better than Edler for example. And keeps them from turning the corner on the goalie. A balanced pair might have a Gudbranson to balance a pair. Drafting, you have to take the BPA I agree on taking the BPA we just disagree as to who that is. Cheers, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind , I have my preference for Bigger D. you accept the smaller D. I respect your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, aGENT said: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=265684 ADAM BOQVIST HEIGHT 180 cm / 5'11" WEIGHT 77 kg / 170 lbs And again, one of the youngest players in the draft. He will grow and he's not even that small for a freaking 17 year old He will get better in his own end. He's too smart and skilled not to. His 2 year older brother is 6' and 181lbs FWIW at a still young, 19. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=212690 Fair enough. To be honest, if I didn't know how big he was, from what I read and saw, I would be stoked to pick him with a #4-5 pick. My own bias against small players, and the 5'9". 160lbs thing made me wary of the pick. 5'11"- 6'. 190-200 lbs, the kid could be the second best player out of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, drummerboy said: Fair enough. To be honest, if I didn't know how big he was, from what I read and saw, I would be stoked to pick him with a #4-5 pick. My own bias against small players, and the 5'9". 160lbs thing made me wary of the pick. 5'11"- 6'. 190-200 lbs, the kid could be the second best player out of the draft. Something about this kid makes me smell Petr Nedved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 quote from coaches poll in OHL Other notable Western Conference vote getters are Evan Bouchard of the London Knights who appears in four different categories including first in Hardest Shot and Best Offensive Defenceman, second Best Shot, and third Smartest Player. Jonah Gadjovich of the Owen Sound Attack was named Hardest Worker after finishing in third last season and second the year before, I like quotes like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Sugar baby watermelon said: Farabee playing on a line with Jack Hughes and Wahlstrom, man I would love to see those guys play, strike fear into opposing D and goalies eyes It's a pretty deadly line no joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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