PuckYa Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 13 hours ago, TGokou said: Chance of you getting a top pairing defender in round 2 are almost nil...it is a pipe dream. You HAVE to draft them in the first round or else you are leaving everything to chance. Yes great D come from Round 1 but many do come from all over the draft. Just to name a few: P.K. Subban Round 2 pick #43 S. Weber Round 2 pick #49 Klingberg Round 5 pick #131 N. Lidstrom Round 3 pick #53 S. Theodore Round 1 pick #26 Byfuglien Round 8 pick #245 D. Keith Round 2 pick #54 K. Yandle Round 4 pick #104 Gostisbehere Round 3 pick #78 T. Barrie Round 3 pick #64 J. Carlson Round 1 pick #27 K. Letang Round 3 pick #62 W. Butcher Round 5 pick #123 M. Giordano Undrafted D. Boyle Undrafted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Petterrson's Dangle said: would be nice if we find a way to another top 10 (cough cough edmonton, tanev), and get Hughes/Dobson/Bouchard and one of Kotkaniemi/Valeno/Walhstrom - pipeline would be bursting at the seams. And we'd get another high pick next year! I’m starting to really like the centre crop in 2019. Jack Hughes remains the big prize. But you look at the CHL kids right now and guys like Raphaël Lavoie, Kirby Dach, and Dylan Cozens are all around 6’4” and pushing 200 lbs and they’ve each scored close to a point per game in their D-1 seasons. Any one of those three could develop into your prototypical 1C with size. And then you’ve got the slightly smaller guys with elite skills, like Hughes obviously, but also guys like Ryan Suzuki and Alex Newhook (if he ends up a C and not a W). And that’s not even mentioning the Europeans and the Americans, whether the other USDP centres not named Hughes, some of the prep school kids, and a very strong group in 2019 coming out of the Minnesota high school system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Petterrson's Dangle said: would be nice if we find a way to another top 10 (cough cough edmonton, tanev), and get Hughes/Dobson/Bouchard and one of Kotkaniemi/Valeno/Walhstrom - pipeline would be bursting at the seams. And we'd get another high pick next year! This year is a good year to pick up another first round pick. But Edmonton has no use for a player like tanev, they need an offensive puck mover, so you can scratch them off the list. NYI are unlikely to do anything until tavares is figured out. If he’s gone they go right into rebuild mode and have no use for tanev. The team I would be looking at is the flyers. The leafs are the other option but velenk will be long gone by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 18 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said: That's correct from my perspective. But if you want to make a fair and valid player's assessment you just can't look only at the player's strengths. A fair assessment which would be helpful for projecting the player's ranking and for the selection the Canucks finally make has to consider both sides of the equation. Chis Kelly mentioned in his quote that all D-Man in the Top 10 have notable weaknesses. Personally, without having seen those players play, I would say he is right: - Boqvist and Hughes: undersized, lack of physicality / Boqvist: concussions in the early stage of his career - Bouchard: serious concerns about his Hockey IQ and speed - Dobson: indeed he had a great showing at the Memorial Cup, but I think his upside is limited, especially compared to the upside of Boqvist and Hughes I remember one statement from JB which was part of an report in "The Province". The essence of this statement was that the Canucks very much like a D-Man which should be availabe at spot 37 implicitly saying that there is no necessity to draft a D-Man with their 1st pick. I admit that this report was published several weeks ago and that JB could have changed his mind / strategy in the meantime. I could see the following scenario: Habs at #3 are shocking the world taking the best Centerman available in this years draft: Kotkaniemi. It is well known that the Habs are desperately in need of C. Consequence would be that either Zadina or Svechnikov would be still available at 4. Teams picking from 4 through 6 most likely are going to draft defensemen. Ottawa: let's say Boqvist or Hughes Arizona: also D, they are deep at forward, one of Boqvist or Hughes Detroit: Bouchard / if the sources out of Detroit are valid Consequence would be that players like: Wahlstrom, Tkachuk and either Zadina or Svechnikov would still be on the board at #7. In no scenario is Svechnikov going to be available at 7.... no chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Durst Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 16 hours ago, TGokou said: I just can't see montreal taking Kotkaniemi at 3. They will either trade down or take someone else. As for the glaring deficiencies, Dobson's upside is limited by what exactly? He is excellent at everything, maybe not a 'master' at any one thing and we are only 'judging' his upside because of the other D that may also be on the board who we 'project' to have higher upside. In reality Dobson's upside could be the highest and we just don't know it yet. Sure Boqvist and Hughes 'could' eventually score 60-70 points a season but they will NEVER be known as defensive specialists due to their size. It's just not physically possible. I see Dobson's floor as 30 points with 50 point upside but could also be an excellent shut-down defender in his own right. As for drafting a player like Wahlstrom or Tkachuk, both are projected as wingers and in trade value will garner a lot less than what you could achieve if you got near full value out of drafting a defenseman. Like someone already said, no one will trade you Sergachev/McAvoy/Provorov/Werenski for Boeser. Good luck if you ever expect to get an excellent top pairing D-man for majority of wingers in the league in a one-for-one trade. Chance of you getting a top pairing defender in round 2 are almost nil...it is a pipe dream. You HAVE to draft them in the first round or else you are leaving everything to chance. O.K. that's your own perspective that I respect, of course. My guess that the Habs could probably take Kotkaniemi at #3 is based on the folllowing report from an Habs'insider http://montrealgazette.com/sports/jack-todd-finnish-centreman-jesperi-kotkaniemi-could-fill-a-big-hole-in-habs-lineup If you are intested take your time and read through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Durst Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, spook007 said: In no scenario is Svechnikov going to be available at 7.... no chance... O.K. Here is a great example that sometimes strange things can happen. When I remember correctly all scouting services had ranked Gabe Vilardi in the Top 5 in the draft 2017. Actually he was taken by the Kings at 11. How could this happen? Anyone around having an reasonable explanation for this? Here is my own: The draft selection is the outcome of the very specific draft philosophy of each GM. I would classify the factors which finally determines the draft selection into three categories: 1. select a player who satisfies positional needs 2. draft "trade value" 3. draft a player who is considered to be part of the "next core" of a team which is proactively build by drafting to become a playoff team or a contender If the GM's of the teams picking 2-6 make adding trade value and/or satisfying positional needs a top priority it would result in leaving Svechnikov on the board at 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 17 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said: Some proponents of taking a D instead of a winger in this forum argue that the trade value of a D is much higher than the trade value of a winger. If the GM's of the Coyotes, Senators and Red Wings share that view you will find Svechnikov on the board at #7. In case of the forementioned teams it's not only the trade value it's also the positional needs of the respective teams. If the GM's put more emphasis on the BPA concept Svechnikov will be taken in the Top 5. It really depends on the perspective of the GM's. While you are right it is entirely down to the GM's, who they draft, I'll be stunned if they leave the second best player in the draft on the board in order to draft for positional needs. Not only one but several GM's... Sorry, but its a pipe dream.. If anything you draft him and then trade for what ever you desire. Or even better you swap picks for assets in stead ie trade down.... Nevertheless as every year it will be interesting to see how it pans out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Durst Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 On 26.5.2018 at 10:33 AM, Canuck Surfer said: You are way off. Just my opinion. Its not that they have glaring weaknesses. Its that the calibre of D men is higher than usual. 2015 with Werenski, Chabot, Provorov & Hanifin was like that. As much as we like Boeser? And we do... Columbus would not be offering us Werenski back, nor Philly Provorov. They know what they have. The good D are not being left for the 2knd round any more.If you want a good D, you have to take one when you get the chance. Miss on one who is BPA? It could be a generation before you get the chance to draft another. Boqvist can absolutely hammer the puck! He will be one of the fastest players, among the better athletes in the league. And Hughes is even faster, even more clever with the puck. Dobson is composed & fundamentally sound like Provorov. Can also skate, and move! Bouchard & Dobson both scored at rates that obliterated the CHL results of guys like Sergachev & Ekblad. You are correct in that Wahlstrom is a very exciting prospect. The shine is only lower because of the allure of some well above average D men! Out of nowhere here is an interesting opportunity to add an excellent D-Man to the Canucks roster..... https://puckprose.com/2018/05/25/nhl-trade-rumors-vancouver-canucks-noah-hanifin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 4 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: I’m starting to really like the centre crop in 2019. Jack Hughes remains the big prize. But you look at the CHL kids right now and guys like Raphaël Lavoie, Kirby Dach, and Dylan Cozens are all around 6’4” and pushing 200 lbs and they’ve each scored close to a point per game in their D-1 seasons. Any one of those three could develop into your prototypical 1C with size. And then you’ve got the slightly smaller guys with elite skills, like Hughes obviously, but also guys like Ryan Suzuki and Alex Newhook (if he ends up a C and not a W). And that’s not even mentioning the Europeans and the Americans, whether the other USDP centres not named Hughes, some of the prep school kids, and a very strong group in 2019 coming out of the Minnesota high school system. Caufield and Turcotte from the usndtp are two names to look out for in that draft. We shall see if they get shifted to the middle next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Ty Emberson is a good mid round pick up for a team looking for a reliable steady dman. He isn't flashy but he seems to get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said: O.K. Here is a great example that sometimes strange things can happen... If the GM's of the teams picking 2-6 make adding trade value and/or satisfying positional needs a top priority it would result in leaving Svechnikov on the board at 7. Not in this case however, when Svechnikov is clearly the best forward in the draft. There simply is no way that 6 defencemen will go before him. If he's there at #7 then a lot of GMs should be losing their jobs. He does not make it out of the top-3, and if he did #4 will sprint to the podium no matter what their team need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Another mid round pick the canucks should be looking at is nikolai kovalenko. He plays like his dad tank did when he played in the Nhl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_The_Schneid! Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Im kind of switching my mind set up to think that trading down might be our best move if tkatchuk is still available when we pick it could be money in the bank trade it to calgary for dougie hamilton and one of there prospects if not to calgary trading down into that 10-14 range still has similar players available, Valeno, Ty Smith, Bouchard, Farabee, maybe even Boqvist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petterrson's Dangle Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 8 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: This year is a good year to pick up another first round pick. But Edmonton has no use for a player like tanev, they need an offensive puck mover, so you can scratch them off the list. NYI are unlikely to do anything until tavares is figured out. If he’s gone they go right into rebuild mode and have no use for tanev. The team I would be looking at is the flyers. The leafs are the other option but velenk will be long gone by then. Edmonton Goals Against: 263 (25th of 31) SRS: -0.32 (21st of 31) PK: 76.73% League average 79.82% It's pretty apparent, even from an Eye test, Edmonton had issues on their back end defensively, the stats back up that assertion. Whether THEY want admit it or not, is a different question, but suggesting that team doesn't need help defensively is not accurate in my view. They do have issues on their backend that need help. Larsson was not enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TryamkinsRevenge Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Petterrson's Dangle said: Edmonton Goals Against: 263 (25th of 31) SRS: -0.32 (21st of 31) PK: 76.73% League average 79.82% It's pretty apparent, even from an Eye test, Edmonton had issues on their back end defensively, the stats back up that assertion. Whether they want admit it or not, is a different question, but suggesting that team doesn't need help defensively is not accurate in my view. I agree they have issues on their back end, but I’m quite sure they would want a LHD if getting a defensive style defenseman as opposed to Tanev considering they already have Larsson that they rave about to cover up how bad the Taylor Hall trade was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petterrson's Dangle Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, TryamkinsRevenge said: I agree they have issues on their back end, but I’m quite sure they would want a LHD if getting a defensive style defenseman as opposed to Tanev considering they already have Larsson that they rave about to cover up how bad the Taylor Hall trade was. That's a better argument but that's simply assuming they are in denial of their major problems back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TryamkinsRevenge Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 12 hours ago, shiznak said: Another thing what I like about Veleno is he can play just about any style, which is why it’s really hard to compare him with anyone. I hear he plays like Barzal, Thornton, Bergeron, Nugent Hopkins, Schwartz, amongst others. That certainly a unique range of players. He can also pretty much play in all situations and be effective in that role. Whether it be penalty killing or his bed-and-butter quarterbacking on the powerplay. Like I said, I wouldn’t mind JB selecting him at 7, in this draft. I feel he should be mentioned as the same tier as the likes of Wahlstrom, Dobson, Bouchard and Kotkaniemi. He would fit perfectly with either Boeser or Pettersson as his wingman. Plus, he the type of player we somewhat lack, a true playmaking center. I really don’t like the upside of Veleno, he tops off as a 2nd line center for me. He doesn’t have the skill of someone like Bergeron that he’s compared to. His goal scoring ability is kinda lame and he doesn’t really have that wow factor that you want in a top 10 pick. He finds him self around 18 in my final rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TryamkinsRevenge Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Petterrson's Dangle said: That's a better argument but that's simply assuming they are in denial of their major problems back there. Larson and Tanev would be a terrific shut down pair, then you sign guy like Carlson, and move RNH for a stay at home and you have a playoff team for years. No, my point is that Larsson and Tanev are both RHD. You can put them on the same line efficiently. If they wanted a DFD, they would probably go after a LHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petterrson's Dangle Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Just now, TryamkinsRevenge said: No, my point is that Larsson and Tanev are both RHD. You can put them on the same line efficiently. If they wanted a DFD, they would probably go after a LHD. So then a great one two punch Find a LD pp QB - easier and cheaper than right, play him with Larsson Then you have a great shut down on the next line PP QB (RNH trade) / Larsson Nurse / Tanev That's a much better top 4 and / or find a strong vet (ie Dehaan UFA, or Jack Johnson) /Tanev They are a much better team with Tanev on the back end, and it solves ONE of their problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Off_The_Schneid! said: Im kind of switching my mind set up to think that trading down might be our best move if tkatchuk is still available when we pick it could be money in the bank trade it to calgary for dougie hamilton and one of there prospects if not to calgary trading down into that 10-14 range still has similar players available, Valeno, Ty Smith, Bouchard, Farabee, maybe even Boqvist I think the Oilers would love to get Brady Tkachuk. I’d propose 7 for Poolparty +10. Don’t want Hamilton at all. Too soft. Not a player to win with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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