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1 hour ago, DontFockWithBrock said:

Just so I'm clear... 92% of his points are primary points (goals and primary assists)? Because there's no way 92% of his points could be assists unless I forgot how to math

I believe it's 92% of his assists are primary assists.

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7 hours ago, Fan since 82 said:

I believe it's 92% of his assists are primary assists.

Goals are considered primary points. He has 56 points as of now and 51 of those points are primary (goals and primary assist), which is 91%. If we are looking at assists only, he has 35 assists as of now and 30 of those are primary assists, which is 86% of his assists are primary. Hope that clears it up.

 

Did you know that 57% of stats are made up though?

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4 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Goals are considered primary points. He has 56 points as of now and 51 of those points are primary (goals and primary assist), which is 91%. If we are looking at assists only, he has 35 assists as of now and 30 of those are primary assists, which is 86% of his assists are primary. Hope that clears it up.

 

Did you know that 57% of stats are made up though?

83% of me does.

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23 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Goals are considered primary points. He has 56 points as of now and 51 of those points are primary (goals and primary assist), which is 91%. If we are looking at assists only, he has 35 assists as of now and 30 of those are primary assists, which is 86% of his assists are primary. Hope that clears it up.

 

Did you know that 57% of stats are made up though?

Every time I try to sound clever on here I mess it up! Thanks for clearing up my math.

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On 1/13/2018 at 8:42 PM, Odd. said:

FTR, it's really hard to keep track and compare points from the 3 leagues as the commentator who mentioned that stat said he didn't know where the source came from but just knows he's 3rd in the WHL in primary points. 

 

I assume he's somewhere in top 10 in the CHL  (primary points) as out of the 56 points that he has so far (in 34gp), all but 5 are primary.

 

Again, it's really hard to find advanced stats in the CHL.

They (CHL) are aware of this.  Several months ago I was listening to an OHL podcast from a radio station based out of London (sorry, I forgot the exact station) and they were interviewing CHL commissioner David Branch.  In his interview he says that NHL teams have been asking the CHL to homologate both the way in which statistics are recorded and the way in which the stats are made accessible to the public/scouts/pro-teams/ect....  He cited several obvious difficulties in doing so including cost/time/personnel/ect.... mentioning that you are working with teams that are (paraphrasing here) essentially run like small NHL organizations with HUGE operating budgets and some teams barely operating on shoe-string budgets and on the backs of volunteers. 

 

There is definitely progress being made though, as now when you go to each of the 3 league websites you actually have a lot of continuity all the way from the web-design to the stats page.  Now they have to address the actual stats that are being recorded.

 

I think it's worth mentioning that this isn't exclusively a CHL problem as I've heard for years from various different Canucks commentators/analysts that depending on where the team is playing - they see VASTLY different statistics being recorded; and we're not just talking about differences in advanced statistics, but rather in dirt simple stats like shots on net where in one rink the a shot would be recorded while in another rink the exact same shot by the same player wouldn't be recorded as a shot on net. 

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28 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Why isn’t anybody signing Kole Lind?

haha resign BENNING!!

 

You never know with prospects but I could see Lind making an NHL debut as soon as next year assuming he's in Utica. Cant wait to see what this kid becomes for us!

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19 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

haha resign BENNING!!

 

You never know with prospects but I could see Lind making an NHL debut as soon as next year assuming he's in Utica. Cant wait to see what this kid becomes for us!

I hope Lind plays NHL next year.

 

Otherwise, the Canucks kinda screwed the pooch by not signing him before the New Year.

 

At this point, any contract Lind signs is ineligible to slide. Had he been signed in 2017, he’d have two years of slide eligibility. But due to Lind’s late birthday, he falls under a CBA clause that makes him slide ineligible if signed in 2018.

 

Which means that, if Lind plays AHL next season, he’d still burn that year off his ELC.

 

Had he been signed in 2017, he could play AHL next season and have his contract slide a year.

 

Basically, it’s the difference between Lind hitting RFA status in 2021 versus 2022. 

 

And by waiting on Lind’s contract, the Canucks are risking having to carry maybe a couple million in extra cap hit for 2021-22.

 

Maybe that’s not a big deal for most people. But for me, I’m kind of expecting this team to be pretty good by 2021-22. Maybe good enough that a couple million in cap will really matter. Like the difference between picking up a decent depth player or not. Or the cap difference between extending a player or not. Little stuff like that. Those final pieces that can make a difference for a contending team.

 

I just don’t get why they let this one slip. Clearly Lind is getting a deal at some point. So why not sign him already?

 

Even if Lind plays NHL next season (which would negate the 2021-22 issue), it would still have saved the Canucks a little cap to have signed Lind in 2017, just because his signing bonus comes off the top in slide years.

 

So I ask again: why isn’t anybody signing Kole Lind?

 

Or why wasn’t anybody signing Kole Lind before the slide window closed on December 31st, 2017?

Edited by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME
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24 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I hope Lind plays NHL next year.

 

Otherwise, the Canucks kinda screwed the pooch by not signing him before the New Year.

 

At this point, any contract Lind signs is ineligible to slide. Had he been signed in 2017, he’d have two years of slide eligibility. But due to Lind’s late birthday, he falls under a CBA clause that makes him slide ineligible if signed in 2018.

 

Which means that, if Lind plays AHL next season, he’d still burn that year off his ELC.

 

Had he been signed in 2017, he could play AHL next season and have his contract slide a year.

 

Basically, it’s the difference between Lind hitting RFA status in 2021 versus 2022. 

 

And by waiting on Lind’s contract, the Canucks are risking having to carry maybe a couple million in extra cap hit for 2021-22.

 

Maybe that’s not a big deal for most people. But for me, I’m kind of expecting this team to be pretty good by 2021-22. Maybe good enough that a couple million in cap will really matter. Like the difference between picking up a decent depth player or not. Or the cap difference between extending a player or not. Little stuff like that. Those final pieces that can make a difference for a contending team.

 

I just don’t get why they let this one slip. Clearly Lind is getting a deal at some point. So why not sign him already?

 

Even if Lind plays NHL next season (which would negate the 2021-22 issue), it would still have saved the Canucks a little cap to have signed Lind in 2017, just because his signing bonus comes off the top in slide years.

 

So I ask again: why isn’t anybody signing Kole Lind?

 

Or why wasn’t anybody signing Kole Lind before the slide window closed on December 31st, 2017?

Or when Kole Lind signs, who will be signing him? 

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47 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I hope Lind plays NHL next year.

 

Otherwise, the Canucks kinda screwed the pooch by not signing him before the New Year.

 

At this point, any contract Lind signs is ineligible to slide. Had he been signed in 2017, he’d have two years of slide eligibility. But due to Lind’s late birthday, he falls under a CBA clause that makes him slide ineligible if signed in 2018.

 

Which means that, if Lind plays AHL next season, he’d still burn that year off his ELC.

 

Had he been signed in 2017, he could play AHL next season and have his contract slide a year.

 

Basically, it’s the difference between Lind hitting RFA status in 2021 versus 2022. 

 

And by waiting on Lind’s contract, the Canucks are risking having to carry maybe a couple million in extra cap hit for 2021-22.

 

Maybe that’s not a big deal for most people. But for me, I’m kind of expecting this team to be pretty good by 2021-22. Maybe good enough that a couple million in cap will really matter. Like the difference between picking up a decent depth player or not. Or the cap difference between extending a player or not. Little stuff like that. Those final pieces that can make a difference for a contending team.

 

I just don’t get why they let this one slip. Clearly Lind is getting a deal at some point. So why not sign him already?

 

Even if Lind plays NHL next season (which would negate the 2021-22 issue), it would still have saved the Canucks a little cap to have signed Lind in 2017, just because his signing bonus comes off the top in slide years.

 

So I ask again: why isn’t anybody signing Kole Lind?

 

Or why wasn’t anybody signing Kole Lind before the slide window closed on December 31st, 2017?

I assume Kole's agent knew this as well and wants a piece of that couple million.

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5 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I hope Lind plays NHL next year.

 

Otherwise, the Canucks kinda screwed the pooch by not signing him before the New Year.

 

At this point, any contract Lind signs is ineligible to slide. Had he been signed in 2017, he’d have two years of slide eligibility. But due to Lind’s late birthday, he falls under a CBA clause that makes him slide ineligible if signed in 2018.

 

Which means that, if Lind plays AHL next season, he’d still burn that year off his ELC.

 

Had he been signed in 2017, he could play AHL next season and have his contract slide a year.

 

Basically, it’s the difference between Lind hitting RFA status in 2021 versus 2022. 

 

And by waiting on Lind’s contract, the Canucks are risking having to carry maybe a couple million in extra cap hit for 2021-22.

 

Maybe that’s not a big deal for most people. But for me, I’m kind of expecting this team to be pretty good by 2021-22. Maybe good enough that a couple million in cap will really matter. Like the difference between picking up a decent depth player or not. Or the cap difference between extending a player or not. Little stuff like that. Those final pieces that can make a difference for a contending team.

 

I just don’t get why they let this one slip. Clearly Lind is getting a deal at some point. So why not sign him already?

 

Even if Lind plays NHL next season (which would negate the 2021-22 issue), it would still have saved the Canucks a little cap to have signed Lind in 2017, just because his signing bonus comes off the top in slide years.

 

So I ask again: why isn’t anybody signing Kole Lind?

 

Or why wasn’t anybody signing Kole Lind before the slide window closed on December 31st, 2017?

I thought the ELC slide was a CHL phenomenon. Surely, once you're in the pros, your contract has no 'slide' component.

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1 hour ago, SingleThorn said:

 

I thought the ELC slide was a CHL phenomenon. Surely, once you're in the pros, your contract has no 'slide' component.

I think you're right, contracts don't slide in the AHL. The only way this would matter is if he doesn't make Utica next year and is back in the WHL.

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ENTRY-LEVEL SLIDES 2017-18

If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.
 
Because signing bonuses are paid regardless of a slide, the bonuses paid on the slide year no longer count to the players remaining cap hit. The cap hit therefore changes - the players salary is averaged without the signing bonus.
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2 hours ago, SingleThorn said:

 

I thought the ELC slide was a CHL phenomenon. Surely, once you're in the pros, your contract has no 'slide' component.

 

57 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

I think you're right, contracts don't slide in the AHL. The only way this would matter is if he doesn't make Utica next year and is back in the WHL.

@Rick Blight posted the rules above regarding ELC slide. It’s determined by NHL games played. Less than 10 NHL games in a season and the contract slides (if player is 18 or 19 on September 15th of the year the season starts).

 

An good example is William Nylander. His contract slid in 2014-15, even though he split that season between two pro leagues, the SHL and the AHL.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander

 

Similarly, had Pettersson been signed in 2017, his contract would slide this year while he’s in the SHL. And it could slide again next season if he went to the AHL or did another SHL year.

 

But like Lind, Pettersson is turning 20 between September 16th and December 31st of 2018. So any contract signed in calendar 2018 is now slide ineligible, and will start burning years off his ELC no matter where he plays hockey.

 

Ideally, both Lind and Pettersson would have been signed in 2017, allowing the team to maximize potential ELC slide benefit, effectively turning 3 year contracts into 4-5 year contracts, and knocking any signing bonuses from slide years off the total cap hit.

 

But that ship has sailed.

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17 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

 

@Rick Blight posted the rules above regarding ELC slide. It’s determined by NHL games played. Less than 10 NHL games in a season and the contract slides (if player is 18 or 19 on September 15th of the year the season starts).

 

An good example is William Nylander. His contract slid in 2014-15, even though he split that season between two pro leagues, the SHL and the AHL.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander

 

Similarly, had Pettersson been signed in 2017, his contract would slide this year while he’s in the SHL. And it could slide again next season if he went to the AHL or did another SHL year.

 

But like Lind, Pettersson is turning 20 between September 16th and December 31st of 2018. So any contract signed in calendar 2018 is now slide ineligible, and will start burning years off his ELC no matter where he plays hockey.

 

Ideally, both Lind and Pettersson would have been signed in 2017, allowing the team to maximize potential ELC slide benefit, effectively turning 3 year contracts into 4-5 year contracts, and knocking any signing bonuses from slide years off the total cap hit.

 

But that ship has sailed.

To me this is the biggest difference between MG and his team vs JB. 

I know I get a lot of criticism for pointing out JB and his teams flaws but this kind of forward is non existent for JB. Having these two players on ELC's would make a world of difference if the team was to compete in couple of years.  

 

Let's assume an  example, EP comes in and becomes a 60-70 pts player and is a RFA one year earlier. He is resigned for $5-6M at that year instead of being on a ELC. The team could have used that kind of cap space in this hypothetical scenario. 

I know the boat has sailed for both Lind and EP but management needs to be on top of these kinds of things and get it done one way or another. 

 

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3 minutes ago, kacholu said:

To me this is the biggest difference between MG and his team vs JB. 

I know I get a lot of criticism for pointing out JB and his teams flaws but this kind of forward is non existent for JB. Having these two players on ELC's would make a world of difference if the team was to compete in couple of years.  

 

Let's assume an  example, EP comes in and becomes a 60-70 pts player and is a RFA one year earlier. He is resigned for $5-6M at that year instead of being on a ELC. The team could have used that kind of cap space in this hypothetical scenario. 

I know the boat has sailed for both Lind and EP but management needs to be on top of these kinds of things and get it done one way or another. 

 

I’m hoping that the delays are being driven by the agents for Lind and Pettersson. It’s possible they’ve told Vancouver that their clients simply won’t sign deals until 2018, due to the financial benefits of avoiding ELC slide (especially when it comes to potential career earnings). This really hasn’t been a common tactic in previous years, but agents are always looking for an edge, and they read the CBA just as much as anyway does, looking for loopholes and advantages to exploit. 

 

But yeah, if this is just ignorance/negligence on management’s part, it’s definitely an area of concern and deserves criticism. I really hope that’s not the case though. Especially if it ends up costing the team millions in cap down the road. 

 

Frustratingly, the public spin has suggested that management is choosing to delay signing these contracts. Of course, you can’t always take the official line at face value. But JB has said that he’s in no rush to sign Pettersson until he’s NHL ready. That sounds good to the average fan. But it completely ignores the benefits afforded by ELC slide (as already detailed in earlier posts).

 

Similarly, the word on Lind was that the team was in contract discussions last year but was taking their time and waiting to see how well Lind performed. Why wait? Is there really any question of whether or not Lind will be signed? It’s not like they’re going to just let his rights expire. Lind is getting a contract at some point. So why not get him signed when the team gets the most advantage?

 

So basically, if the delays are from the players side, that’s fine. Part of the business and hats off the the agents for looking out for their clients. But if management is dragging their feet, it’s a problem. Because they would either be knowingly chosing to put themselves at a disadvantage (which would be pretty bad), or they aren’t even aware of the issue (which might be even worse).

 

Hopefully it’s coming from the players’ camps. But I’d sure feel a lot better if management confirmed this publicly. Because every time they say something that suggests they chose not sign Pettersson and Lind in 2017, it makes me wonder if they’re even aware of the potential consequences of this delay:

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57 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

 

@Rick Blight posted the rules above regarding ELC slide. It’s determined by NHL games played. Less than 10 NHL games in a season and the contract slides (if player is 18 or 19 on September 15th of the year the season starts).

 

An good example is William Nylander. His contract slid in 2014-15, even though he split that season between two pro leagues, the SHL and the AHL.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander

 

Similarly, had Pettersson been signed in 2017, his contract would slide this year while he’s in the SHL. And it could slide again next season if he went to the AHL or did another SHL year.

 

But like Lind, Pettersson is turning 20 between September 16th and December 31st of 2018. So any contract signed in calendar 2018 is now slide ineligible, and will start burning years off his ELC no matter where he plays hockey.

 

Ideally, both Lind and Pettersson would have been signed in 2017, allowing the team to maximize potential ELC slide benefit, effectively turning 3 year contracts into 4-5 year contracts, and knocking any signing bonuses from slide years off the total cap hit.

 

But that ship has sailed.

Thanks for the correction Sid, my mistake.

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1 minute ago, aGENT said:

@SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME, I think that's the answer right there. Same reason we saw Boeser burn a year signing late last year (and will likely see Gaudette do the same this year).

 

 

I hope so. And I want to believe it.

 

Just find the public statements frustrating.

 

Of course, management doesn’t design their press releases for fans like me (who actually read the CBA). The try to appeal to the common fan, who has no interest in this stuff. So saying “let’s wait until they’re ready before worrying about contacts” sound good to some fans and they don’t question it.

 

Plus, the average fan would probably get upset if they heard a recent draft pick had “refused” to sign a contract. And outlets like TSN would have a field day with a public confirmation that Pettersson and Lind are “holding out” and “just in it for the money.”

 

So I can see why management might handle things the way they have.

 

And I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (although it would be easier if they didn’t already have a history of making a few minor CBA blunders).

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