Jonah Gadjovich | LW

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

32 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Personally, if it comes down to a decision between exposing Lind and Gadjovich in the expansion draft, I would lean toward exposing Lind.  This is simply because impactful power forwards are so hard to come by and so valuable when you find them.  Gadjovich has the potential to become this in the future and Lind, regardless of his own potential, doesn't.

Protect both and expose Jake? 

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

I think middle 6 is his absolute up side with bottom 6 probably more likely. But if he can be something like a PP2, bottom 6, Tomas Holmstrom-lite type player for us, we're LAUGHING. Anything over that is pure gravy. 

I think we need a new coach before Gadgy makes it then?

 

Teams like Pitt and Vegas, even Toronto have run 3rd lines that would suit Jonah.  TG wants defensive pressure from his 3rd line. That is what it is?

 

Not size and secondary scoring.  

[204CanucksFan]

5 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Protect both and expose Jake? 

Exposing Jake is a given. Comes down to protect both and expose Motte or not.

[Boudrias]

8 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I'd be shocked if he becomes more than a middle six tweener, and that'd be great for a second round pick. 

 

But then again.. I really, really, really hate the Todd Bertuzzi comparison Nucks fans tend to make about large guys with skill. Bertuzzi was a rare player at his peak, we've seen very few players like that in the league since. The game's also changed, nobody would get away with the nastiness Bert got away with back in the day. Top end power forwards are extremely rare. 

I don’t think Gadjovich has near the speed of Bert. Wish Gadjovich had few more Apples to go along with his goal totals. He is having a great season. 

[Dixon Ward]

I am a big fan of Jonah's.  However, I think his success will come in the NHL based on 2 things: foot speed and decision making speed.  Virtanen has shown that foot speed isn't enough to be top 6.  Boeser isn't super fast but he processes things very fast and is a 1st liner. Reid Boucher had the brains but not enough of the footspeed.

 

Until Gadjovich has a long stretch in the NHL we won't know if he has either.  I am definitely rooting for him, I think his personality would be great to add to the team.

[aGENT]

9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I think we need a new coach before Gadgy makes it then?

 

Teams like Pitt and Vegas, even Toronto have run 3rd lines that would suit Jonah.  TG wants defensive pressure from his 3rd line. That is what it is?

 

Not size and secondary scoring.  

I think that's largely a symptom of 'coaching what you have'.

 

I'm pretty sure Green would LOVE to have a '2B', secondary offense, third line if he had the horses. One that he didn't need to worry about sheltering AND could pump in complimentary offense.

 

Or alternately a more offensive, sheltered 4th line if the third line is more about matching up, shutting down etc.

 

I think the latter may be what were heading for next year.

 

Un-sheltered lines:

Miller, Pettersson, Boeser

Pearson, Horvat, Podkolzin/Hoglander

Roussel?/Highmore?, Sutter/other?, Motte

 

Sheltered line:

Some mix of Gadjovich, Lind, Jasek, MacEwan, Virtanen (still here?) and whichever of Hoglander/Podkolzin doesn't make the second line.

 

With some of them, Hawryluck, Bailey etc as spares.

 

Eventually you hope that sheltered line gains experience and you can more consistently roll all 4. 

 

If/when Podkolzin and Hoglander both stay on the second line, you move Pearson down.

[Dats hockey]

6 hours ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Exposing Jake is a given. Comes down to protect both and expose Motte or not.

Our bottom six scoring is so bad and motte does so many valuable thing I’m 100000% okay with protecting him we is such a need for this team you notice it when he’s out of the lineup

[204CanucksFan]

5 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

Our bottom six scoring is so bad and motte does so many valuable thing I’m 100000% okay with protecting him we is such a need for this team you notice it when he’s out of the lineup

I completely agree about our bottom six scoring but I'm still not sure about exposing Gadj over Motte. I mean Seattle might pick Gadj or maybe not and you could say the same thing about Motte. To me the ideal scenario is still trading Seattle a pick (if necessary) to get them to take Holtby. But with how he's been playing lately we may not need to. Either way here’s hoping we lose Holtby and get to keep Gadj and Motte

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

I think that's largely a symptom of 'coaching what you have'.

 

I'm pretty sure Green would LOVE to have a '2B', secondary offense, third line if he had the horses. One that he didn't need to worry about sheltering AND could pump in complimentary offense.

 

Or alternately a more offensive, sheltered 4th line if the third line is more about matching up, shutting down etc.

 

I think the latter may be what were heading for next year.

 

Un-sheltered lines:

Miller, Pettersson, Boeser

Pearson, Horvat, Podkolzin/Hoglander

Roussel?/Highmore?, Sutter/other?, Motte

 

Sheltered line:

Some mix of Gadjovich, Lind, Jasek, MacEwan, Virtanen (still here?) and whichever of Hoglander/Podkolzin doesn't make the second line.

 

With some of them, Hawryluck, Bailey etc as spares.

 

Eventually you hope that sheltered line gains experience and you can more consistently roll all 4. 

 

If/when Podkolzin and Hoglander both stay on the second line, you move Pearson down.

I believe that Green is a ''systems' 'coach.  Not an adaptive one. 

 

He would like that Gadjovich would win battles, and be effective in the corners. There is that!

 

But, for example, Roussel's primary task is the lead man in on the fore check going one way. The back check going the other. Not scoring! Green has had an identity for his 3rd and 4th line since he arrived.  His situational use with Sutter, see's that line take more draws in the defensive end than any other in the NHL.  Like AV did with Malhotra, yet even more pronounced.

 

If we, Green, wanted an offensive, even sheltered, 3rd line?  Baertschi & Gaudette would be playing with Roussel right now IMO.    

 

It is not that I disagree with you personally. We have never seen that with this coach...

 

[JustABandwagoner]

14 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Protect both and expose Jake? 

Exposing Jake is a no brainer. Dude has a cap of 3M ish 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I believe that Green is a ''systems' 'coach.  Not an adaptive one. 

And AV was a 'defensive' coach until he got the players (and green light) from management. Coaches coach the players they have.

 

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

He would like that Gadjovich would win battles, and be effective in the corners. There is that!

 

But, for example, Roussel's primary task is the lead man in on the fore check going one way. The back check going the other. Not scoring! Green has had an identity for his 3rd and 4th line since he arrived.  His situational use with Sutter, see's that line take more draws in the defensive end than any other in the NHL.  Like AV did with Malhotra, yet even more pronounced.

Yes, to open up more offensive/neutral starts for the top 2 lines and no Beagle (hurt) to spread that load. Is it that hard to see why, with our other, hard/dzone start C out and wanting offensive opportunity for our better offensive players, that Sutter would see a lot of D zone faceoffs in those conditions? With our other hard use guy out, Green falls back to Sutter's strength in that area to replace him. That in turn, makes Sutter's more optimal two way usage and complimentary offense secondary, under harder, more defense oriented usage.

 

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

If we, Green, wanted an offensive, even sheltered, 3rd line?  Baertschi & Gaudette would be playing with Roussel right now IMO.    

Baer hasn't been an NHL caliber player since his concussion issues IMO. Gaudette was massively sheltered and managed a career year here last year despite his seeming inability to play anything resembling NHL level defense, or win a draw. This year even his offense fell off a cliff. Sorry, but he's just not a player you win with. I could see that last year. (Same with Virtanen IMO.)

 

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

It is not that I disagree with you personally. We have never seen that with this coach...

 

We simply (currently) lack the personnel to run three scoring lines. And guys like Pettersson, Hoglander and Podkolzin will eventually need less and less sheltering/zone start coddling. We're rebuilding, we'll get there. But they're going to all need some ability to play in all three zones.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We simply (currently) lack the personnel to run three scoring lines.

It's not just the coach? I assume he & Benning are aligned...

 

5 years on.  I believe we would have kept Jared McCann? If secondary scoring out of our 3rd line was a priority. Instead we made Sutter a ''foundational'' player.  

 

This is the hockey we believe in.  Guys have roles, defensive starts or offensive ones. 

 

And yes AV was a pure defensive coach before he had better offensive personnel. He still ran his bottom 6 very much like Green.  Specifically to afford Pettersson the Twins more time in the offensive zone.

[Canuck Surfer]

If we wanted offensive hockey from our bottom 6?  We would have picked up Galchenyuk off waivers, not traded for Matthew Highmore.

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

It's not just the coach? I assume he & Benning are aligned...

Aligned doesn't mean magically speeding up the rebuild or trying to square peg players in to something they're not.

 

Quote

5 years on.  I believe we would have kept Jared McCann? If secondary scoring out of our 3rd line was a priority. Instead we made Sutter a ''foundational'' player.  

Don't think they liked McCann's attitude. Regardless of talent. And we still wouldn't have had personnel, in the depths of our rebuild, to run three scoring lines. 

 

Quote

This is the hockey we believe in.  Guys have roles, defensive starts or offensive ones. 

Oversimplified IMO.

 

Quote

And yes AV was a pure defensive coach before he had better offensive personnel. He still ran his bottom 6 very much like Green.  Specifically to afford Pettersson the Twins more time in the offensive zone.

Worked pretty damn well too... Turned Kesler in to a high scoring Selke winner, got the team presidents cups and game 7 cup finals. We also got complimentary, bottom 6 offense from guys like Hansen etc in those days too FYI. They weren't ALL about shutting down with no offense.

[Ray_Cathode]

16 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Protect both and expose Jake? 

I have no problem with that, even if Jake gets a better coach who can unlock his physical potential, Green can then focus his attention on getting nothing out of guys who failed elsewhere, rather than playing our own prospects whose potential is, as of now, unknown, and as long as Green is coach, we are unlikely ever to see.

[Canuck Surfer]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

FYI.

I question whether you are qualified to be providing others information in this context.  

 

You made a statement that goes completely against all trends of this coach or management group.  Its not like its not possible, even desirable?  That Gadjovich or anyone could have a key offensive role, from the bottom 6. I dont disagree at all in a bigger picture. Its just completely against trend in the smaller picture; the Canucks with this coach & manager. Hansen by the way, did it with speed in counterattack. Still started most of his shifts, when he was with Malhotra, on the 3rd line in the defensive end.  And also scored when he subbed for Burrows as the glue guy with the Twins. I don't envision that role for Gadjovich. Even though thats whatr he did with Suzuki & Palmu in junior. He does not have the speed to be that voracious fore checker at the NHL level.

 

 

Lets get this on a more positive note?  What center could we acquire, sign if we were to have a 3rd line that scored with Gadjovich on it... I had hopes Eriksson would be bought out; we might see something like  Gadjovich - David Lowry - Podkolzin. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Lowry of course was re-signed in Winnipeg.  Who else is out there?  3C and a RHD are our two biggest holes in the line up.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I question whether you are qualified to be providing others information in this context.  

In what context? A fan discussion board? 

 

I guess we better all log off 

 

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

You made a statement that goes completely against all trends of this coach or management group.  Its not like its not possible, even desirable?  That Gadjovich or anyone could have a key offensive role, from the bottom 6. I dont disagree at all in a bigger picture. Its just completely against trend in the smaller picture; the Canucks with this coach & manager. 

 

Just like the so called 'overspending' on UFA's, situational context does not necessarily = trend. Just like it turned out AV wasn't 'just a debating coach' when given the appropriate tools.  Everyone on this board keeps acting like the team is a finished product...

 

 

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Hansen by the way, did it with speed in counterattack. Still started most of his shifts, when he was with Malhotra, on the 3rd line in the defensive end.  And also scored when he subbed for Burrows as the glue guy with the Twins. I don't envision that role for Gadjovich. Even though thats whatr he did with Suzuki & Palmu in junior. He does not have the speed to be that voracious fore checker at the NHL level.

I was in no way suggesting Gadjovich was going to be Hansen. That was an odd take away.

 

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Lets get this on a more positive note?  What center could we acquire, sign if we were to have a 3rd line that scored with Gadjovich on it... I had hopes Eriksson would be bought out; we might see something like  Gadjovich - David Lowry - Podkolzin. 

I'd love to see us target Jenner this summer. He has one year left and they appear headed for a retool... or something.

 

Gadjovich wouldn't necessarily need to be on a scoring '3rd' line either. Maybe we have a hard minute '3rd' line and a scoring '4th'.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Maybe we have a hard minute '3rd' line and a scoring '4th'

Maybe?

 

Green is out of contract,,,

 

My feedback remains until we see such a disposition from him?  And for 4 years he has not shown it.  There is no reason to expect it. 

 

Gallant is also out of contract.  He deploys scoring depth lines.  It could be something to look forward to.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Maybe?

 

Green is out of contract,,,

 

My feedback remains until we see such a disposition from him?  And for 4 years he has not shown it.  There is no reason to expect it. 

 

Gallant is also out of contract.  He deploys scoring depth lines.  It could be something to look forward to.

That's a dangerous line of thinking. Right up there with the 'losing record for longer than most GM's tenure' folks.

 

People expecting more winning than losing during a rebuild. People expecting three scoring lines without the personnel, again in a rebuild... What will CDC have for us next.