Jack Rathbone | #3 | D

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, lmm said:

I am aware of that

I think you groom Edler's replacement in Benn's spot

not in the press box

 

I'm all for playing Juolevi, particularly moving forward. I also understand why Green's been playing Benn (who for his part, has played quite well).

 

That doesn't explain the profound stupidity of suggesting he should be playing instead of Edler.

[Alienhuggyflow]

16 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Let me explain - if you read any of my post lately, I explicitly stated the season is lost and it would be prudent for the team to play the rookies & showcase them for the fans, in preparation for next year but I understand the staff wont do it cause Green is a lame duck coach (right now) and in his opinion, the veteran line up gives him the best chance to win.

 

The defence is still suspect despite playing all the vets - when would be a good time to transition and find out what the team has with these rookies ? Right now there are three FA'S to be in the D and let's see what happens in the offseason with the covid economy in full effect...

 

I'm all for the youth movement but putting them in positions they aren't ready for does nothing for their development.

 

People on here advocating to trade every vet possible and plug rookies in thinking that them getting slaughtered every game will benefit them have the wrong approach imo.

Easing a few in slowly like we have been doing seems to have worked on every single prospect so far. The one that was rushed (Jake) failed and led to him being sent to Utica where he should have been in the first place.

[ShawnAntoski]

On 4/5/2021 at 7:46 AM, Alienhuggyflow said:

I'm all for the youth movement but putting them in positions they aren't ready for does nothing for their development.

 

People on here advocating to trade every vet possible and plug rookies in thinking that them getting slaughtered every game will benefit them have the wrong approach imo.

Easing a few in slowly like we have been doing seems to have worked on every single prospect so far. The one that was rushed (Jake) failed and led to him being sent to Utica where he should have been in the first place.

Not all prospects are the same: some are more resilent than others; as an example, did Dipietros' first game ruin him or did it help him figure out what he needs to work on to play in the NHL ?

 

With JV, it seems the disappointment is mainly due to him not living up to his draft pedigree (is it because of coaching, his poor off ice preparation and etc); how come Hogz presents a different example ? 

When is the best time for a team to transition from the vets to prospects ?

 

Imo, in today's pro sports, rookies are more pro ready than before and sure some will bust out and it is not because of talent but rather for mostly other reasons.   I get your points and it is (generally) the accepted method to ease a rookie in (unless the rookie forces his way in - Hogz) and this why, JB has signed an expensive set of bottom 6 six players: to shelter/mentor the young core.  Although, some teams like the Avs seems to recognize a down season and quickly transitions to prospect developement were they play/showcase there prospects alot to perhaps sell the future to the fans and to see what they have with these rookies.  It matters alot that upper management recognizes opportunities of when to transition from the vets to the prospects (ofcourse, with the support of the staff) and this is why, I hope Aquamans' first move should be to hire a team president that can work with JB.  I am merely voicing my point of view as a fan were in a lossing season it would be nice to see more of the future.  Great points and let's see what Aquaman & JB will do in the TDL, ED and off season with the covid economy affecting everything...

Edited April 6, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Fred65]

I hate to start thing about next season but that's going to be the major contest Rathbobe v's  Juolevi

 

Thinking of next seasons training camp I wonder if players might still be suffering the effect of Covid ie officially injured so you can't get rid of an injured player and how that effects the Cap. Players like Benn may have to be kept and what about the effect on the expansion draft  ???

Edited April 5, 2021 by Fred65

[Ray_Cathode]

On 4/4/2021 at 9:01 PM, aGENT said:

I'm all for playing Juolevi, particularly moving forward. I also understand why Green's been playing Benn (who for his part, has played quite well).

 

That doesn't explain the profound stupidity of suggesting he should be playing instead of Edler.

What good does it do to play Edler in a year that is over? This team, already struggling from a terrible schedule, is going to make the playoffs with an even more compressed schedule? I think not. If Edler agrees to a trade fine, if not, play the kids anyway. We never hesitated to break in Horvat before he had done anything in the AHL, we played Boeser, Pettersson, Hoglander, and Hughes before they had proven anything in the AHL. Juolevi has played in the AHL successfully, and has done nothing to say he can’t play in the NHL - in fact, he has played well in his short exposure.

[aGENT]

36 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

What good does it do to play Edler in a year that is over? This team, already struggling from a terrible schedule, is going to make the playoffs with an even more compressed schedule? I think not. If Edler agrees to a trade fine, if not, play the kids anyway. We never hesitated to break in Horvat before he had done anything in the AHL, we played Boeser, Pettersson, Hoglander, and Hughes before they had proven anything in the AHL. Juolevi has played in the AHL successfully, and has done nothing to say he can’t play in the NHL - in fact, he has played well in his short exposure.

Pettersson had 80% ozone starts and was EXTREMELY sheltered as a rookie.

 

Edler plays all of the hardest minutes and matchups, for 22+ minutes a night.

 

There's something here some of you aren't grasping.

[Ray_Cathode]

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Pettersson had 80% ozone starts and was EXTREMELY sheltered as a rookie.

 

Edler plays all of the hardest minutes and matchups, for 22+ minutes a night.

 

There's something here some of you aren't grasping.

This season is over, that is what you don’t seem to be getting. You can’t break in the kids unless you actually break them in. Juolevi is more than ready. On the other side, Rafferty just needs playing time at this level. Rathbone and Woo need the rest of this season in the AHL. People also forget that when Edler broke in, he was thrown into the fire as a rookie - the Canucks were entirely depleted with injuries at that time - didn’t seem to do him any harm. It was Edler’s first full season, and the guy he replaced, because of injury, was the guy doing everything Edler does now - Matthias Ohlund. Look it up - 2007/8. 
 

[WeneedLumme]

8 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

This season is over, that is what you don’t seem to be getting. You can’t break in the kids unless you actually break them in. Juolevi is more than ready. On the other side, Rafferty just needs playing time at this level. Rathbone and Woo need the rest of this season in the AHL. People also forget that when Edler broke in, he was thrown into the fire as a rookie - the Canucks were entirely depleted with injuries at that time - didn’t seem to do him any harm. It was Edler’s first full season, and the guy he replaced, because of injury, was the guy doing everything Edler does now - Matthias Ohlund. Look it up - 2007/8. 
 

Both Edler and Ohlund looked like mid-career veterans from the moment they first stepped onto NHL ice. That is extremely unusual for rookie Dmen, and expecting it from other rookies is not reasonable, as very few of them are capable of that.

[Gawdzukes]

9 hours ago, aGENT said:

Pettersson had 80% ozone starts and was EXTREMELY sheltered as a rookie.

 

Edler plays all of the hardest minutes and matchups, for 22+ minutes a night.

 

There's something here some of you aren't grasping.

Yeah, because you're going to bench your 15 year vet over what could be the last 20 games ever for the franchise so a kid can play some meaningless games.  Some people here obviously dedicate a lot of time to hockey, watching or otherwise but don't really get the nuances of hockey. Throwing a rookie onto D into this rolling ball of fire of a season isn't going to be overly realistic. Sure getting him into to some games would be great but you don't sit Edler permanently to do it.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Gawdzukes

[aGENT]

9 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

This season is over, that is what you don’t seem to be getting. You can’t break in the kids unless you actually break them in. Juolevi is more than ready. On the other side, Rafferty just needs playing time at this level. Rathbone and Woo need the rest of this season in the AHL. People also forget that when Edler broke in, he was thrown into the fire as a rookie - the Canucks were entirely depleted with injuries at that time - didn’t seem to do him any harm. It was Edler’s first full season, and the guy he replaced, because of injury, was the guy doing everything Edler does now - Matthias Ohlund. Look it up - 2007/8. 
 

I have zero issue with Juolevi playing.  Attempting to force him in to Elder's hard minute role however, is a recipe for disaster.

 

Just like Pettersson was, he will be eased in, in a sheltered role. Not playing some of the hardest, most demanding minutes on the team while we sit Edler. It's asinine.

[Boudrias]

51 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I have zero issue with Juolevi playing.  Attempting to force him in to Elder's hard minute role however, is a recipe for disaster.

 

Just like Pettersson was, he will be eased in, in a sheltered role. Not playing some of the hardest, most demanding minutes on the team while we sit Edler. It's asinine.

If they move Benn then TOI is available for OJ. As is he has been on the taxi roster for, what 3 weeks? Elder has already been playing less minutes than last year. How much time Joulevi gets can be game specific but bottom line is that he needs minutes. 

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

If they move Benn then TOI is available for OJ. As is he has been on the taxi roster for, what 3 weeks? Elder has already been playing less minutes than last year. How much time Joulevi gets can be game specific but bottom line is that he needs minutes. 

Nobody's arguing Juolevi shouldn't play.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

I have zero issue with Juolevi playing.  Attempting to force him in to Elder's hard minute role however, is a recipe for disaster.

 

Just like Pettersson was, he will be eased in, in a sheltered role. Not playing some of the hardest, most demanding minutes on the team while we sit Edler. It's asinine.

there may not be any choice tho, depending on how all the recovery time goes. Benning might not be in any rush either, I doubt they are thinking about anything other than making sure everyone is safe and healthy and if they have to lose every game so be it. 

 

I think OJ will be handle himself pretty well, a lot of our games will be against Cowgary and OTT so those probably won't be a playoff like atmosphere. 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

there may not be any choice tho, depending on how all the recovery time goes. Benning might not be in any rush either, I doubt they are thinking about anything other than making sure everyone is safe and healthy and if they have to lose every game so be it. 

 

I think OJ will be handle himself pretty well, a lot of our games will be against Cowgary and OTT so those probably won't be a playoff like atmosphere. 

Yes, well Covid may certainly have something to say about who's playing. But you don't actively pursue a course of action that sits Edler in favour of playing Juolevi. It's just silly thinking.

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yes, well Covid may certainly have something to say about who's playing. But you don't actively pursue a course of action that sits Edler in favour of playing Juolevi. It's just silly thinking.

no, he's not ready for that under normal circumstances. I guess the Leafs could be d-bags and try to exploit him but I suspect the other teams we'll be playing will just be looking to play out the games, it'll probably look like pre-season 1/2 the time. 

[Googlie]

Can't imagine opposition teams would initiate any post-whistle scrums either

[Ray_Cathode]

On 4/6/2021 at 7:26 AM, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah, because you're going to bench your 15 year vet over what could be the last 20 games ever for the franchise so a kid can play some meaningless games.  Some people here obviously dedicate a lot of time to hockey, watching or otherwise but don't really get the nuances of hockey. Throwing a rookie onto D into this rolling ball of fire of a season isn't going to be overly realistic. Sure getting him into to some games would be great but you don't sit Edler permanently to do it.

Edler, himself, wasn’t ‘eased into his role’ - look back to the FACTS, he was dumped into it by injury to Ohlund. It certainly did Edler no harm, in fact, it probably accelerated his development. You don’t develop a player by having him play ‘down’ you develop him by having play ‘up’ a level. Juolevi needs to play, and there is no point in this season in playing a Edler. Nailing Juolevi’s butt to the press box does nothing to develop him, and he is the future, not Edler - we need to be looking at replacing Edler. 
 

One of the reasons this team is mired in mediocrity is that we have realized little or nothing from expiring talents because we did not move them soon enough. We got nothing for the Sedins, precious little for Kesler (then we overpaid the third liner we ultimately got for him - namely Sutter). Burrows and Hansen were both traded too late. Hamhuis was mishandled. Cap mismanagement led to the loss of Tofolli, Tanev, Stetcher, and Leivo.

 

The consequence of trading away draft slots, and waiting too long to divest of aging vets is that you end up with an organization so thin on prospects, that can only ice half a club on its farm team.

 

That Benning is wasting time and assets negotiating with a thirty year old third line winger in Person, is laughable. He is easily replaced by Vesey at a fraction of the cost. Now, cudos to Benning for grabbing Vesey and Boyd - but then negating that by re-signing a soon to be has been in Pearson, is next to absurd. We are in no position to be continuing to fill our team with vastly overpaid third and fourth liners, when in the near future we need every scrap of cap space to sign the supposed core of this team - Demko (done), Pettersson, Hughes, etc.

[Fred65]

Good article on THW site re Rathbone

 

Canucks Prospect Jack Rathbone Makes Instant Impact in the AHL (thehockeywriters.com)

[Ray_Cathode]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:23 AM, aGENT said:

Yes, well Covid may certainly have something to say about who's playing. But you don't actively pursue a course of action that sits Edler in favour of playing Juolevi. It's just silly thinking.

Why? Justify, in the long term (since we have no immediate prospect of being a playoff team - never mind contender) that it makes sense to invest more time in a player whose best years are long past. And Juolevi is no kid, Juolevi will be 23 in a month, this is his fifth year with this organization. He has played his way out of Utica inti a limbo where he no longer gets to play - never mind be challenged to get better - we have just thrown him on the scrap heap, like Rafferty (last year’s best player in Utica), and like DiPietro - among our best prospects, they remain, unplayed.

[Fred65]

I believe there is a flaw in Juolevi's game and I'm sure they're working on it. If he can overcome  a long standing habit then he'll succeed if not I'm afraid Rathbone is on his tail wworking on his chance