Jack Rathbone | #3 | D

[Locke Lamora]

47 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Rathbone pushing Juolevi for minutes now but we'll see who's ready next season. So far Rathbone's much more exciting skating-wise and makes the riskier, big passes whereas Juolevi is far better rounded and stronger defensively. Having a LD set of Hughes, Juolevi and Rathbone may be the best in the league in 3-5 years time, we just need to complement those guys really well with complementary RDs.

 

Hughes needs a safe shutdown defenceman who can hit but also skate well to cover all his gaps, yeah Hamonic has been alright for now but someone a bit better defensively would be ideal. I think Myers would be the perfect partner for Juolevi or Rathbone to be honest leaving one final spot up for grabs.

 

I think next season we have to play Juolevi more, around 18 minutes a night, and have Rathbone slowly working his way in as the number 7 with the occasional 15 minutes a night. However, Green might be tempted by his offence and give him more minutes than Juolevi which would be pretty unfair and unbalanced - Juolevi's defence and physicality is much stronger and that's what we need to build off.

 

I don’t see things like that at all.

 

I think that only after these two games Rathbone is very close to passing OJ on the depth chart. I’ve yet seen any evidence that Juolevi is a markedly better defender than Jack. Now, could Rathbone have a meltdown defensively here soon sort of like Chatfield did that put him out of the lineup for a while? Sure. But even if OJ “thinks” the game better defensively, Rathbone can do things athletically that can make up for this. Then you add the skating and powerful shot - that wrister top shelf was high end stuff, and he has a huge point shot as well - and I think we will end the year with Rathbone thought to be slotted higher than OJ in the D-man hierarchy. One thing is for sure, assuming that Rathbone plays in most of the remaining games (hopefully with OJ getting his fair share) we will have a better idea whether or not I’m spouting nonsense here. Which I very well may be…but it’s my read of things currently.

 

Reading between the lines, you can tell Travis Green is really excited about Jack as well.

 

Now, in saying that I think Rathbone is on the verge of eclipsing OJ in the lineup, I still think it’s very important to keep working with Juolevi and giving him ice time so that he becomes an everyday, dependable piece of the puzzle.

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Fanuck said:

I too am beginning to wonder what exactly the 'big picture' plan is Jimmy.  I understand we have cap restraints right now and that certain moves are a direct result of that - however, about a quarter of our roster presently is in my view 'AHL' calibre or if they're not 'AHL' they're certainly in the 'journeyman' category and that's just not sustainable if we want to be competitive moving forward.  Chatfield, Graovac, Boyd, Michaelis, Highmore, Hawryluk and even Mac to a degree would not likely see any meaningful playing time on a truly competitive team.  Not to mention our 'taxi squad' doesn't even seem to have a single 'regular' NHL'er on it sadly.  I understand most of these guys are not going to be here long-term but nevertheless it's a concern. 

People really need to understand that with this gong show Covid season and injuries to Pettersson, Beagle and now Sutter, the majority of these guys are literal filler/plugs to fill in for injuries and keep kids developing in the minors, where they're far better served,  most of the season.

 

They aren't part of some bigger, long term plan.

 

A couple (Highmore? Hawryluck? Bailey?) will likely be 'back' as cheap 13th F/AHL call ups (plugs). But that's literally all they are. 

 

We'll be adding Podkolzin, likely Lind and with guys like Lockwood, Gadjovich, Jasek pushing for depth spots over the next couple years. Then guys like Karlsson, Focht, Costmar, McDonagh etc behind them.

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

51 minutes ago, aGENT said:

People really need to understand that with this gong show Covid season and injuries to Pettersson, Beagle and now Sutter, the majority of these guys are literal filler/plugs to fill in for injuries and keep kids developing in the minors, where they're far better served,  most of the season.

 

They aren't part of some bigger, long term plan.

 

A couple (Highmore? Hawryluck? Bailey?) will likely be 'back' as cheap 13th F/AHL call ups (plugs). But that's literally all they are. 

 

We'll be adding Podkolzin, likely Lind and with guys like Lockwood, Gadjovich, Jasek pushing for depth spots over the next couple years. Then guys like Karlsson, Focht, Costmar, McDonagh etc behind them.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised with Hawryluck and Highmore as far as their efforts on the ice. 

However, I'm also happy we still have the depth and youth in the system that could fill those roles. Say what you want about JB but him and the management filled up the cupboard for us. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by PetterssonOrPeterson

[Dats hockey]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

People really need to understand that with this gong show Covid season and injuries to Pettersson, Beagle and now Sutter, the majority of these guys are literal filler/plugs to fill in for injuries and keep kids developing in the minors, where they're far better served,  most of the season.

 

They aren't part of some bigger, long term plan.

 

A couple (Highmore? Hawryluck? Bailey?) will likely be 'back' as cheap 13th F/AHL call ups (plugs). But that's literally all they are. 

 

We'll be adding Podkolzin, likely Lind and with guys like Lockwood, Gadjovich, Jasek pushing for depth spots over the next couple years. Then guys like Karlsson, Focht, Costmar, McDonagh etc behind them.

And maybe possibly Ferland I don’t mind the cap hit for what he can bring back to our top 9 HOPEFULLY he’s fully healthy next year

[Rick Blight]

1 hour ago, Locke Lamora said:

I don’t see things like that at all.

 

I think that only after these two games Rathbone is very close to passing OJ on the depth chart. I’ve yet seen any evidence that Juolevi is a markedly better defender than Jack. Now, could Rathbone have a meltdown defensively here soon sort of like Chatfield did that put him out of the lineup for a while? Sure. But even if OJ “thinks” the game better defensively, Rathbone can do things athletically that can make up for this. Then you add the skating and powerful shot - that wrister top shelf was high end stuff, and he has a huge point shot as well - and I think we will end the year with Rathbone thought to be slotted higher than OJ in the D-man hierarchy. One thing is for sure, assuming that Rathbone plays in most of the remaining games (hopefully with OJ getting his fair share) we will have a better idea whether or not I’m spouting nonsense here. Which I very well may be…but it’s my read of things currently.

 

Reading between the lines, you can tell Travis Green is really excited about Jack as well.

 

Now, in saying that I think Rathbone is on the verge of eclipsing OJ in the lineup, I still think it’s very important to keep working with Juolevi and giving him ice time so that he becomes an everyday, dependable piece of the puzzle.

Agree completely. I think the organization has very high expectations for Rathbone while I also believe they have pretty much written off Juolevi as part of their future top 6 D. I hope I am wrong but it seems to me that Green has reached for reasons/excuses why Juolevi should not be in the lineup all season long. I actually would not be surprised at all to see them move Juolevi in the off-season and I think that will be a mistake.

[Quantum]

25 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

And maybe possibly Ferland I don’t mind the cap hit for what he can bring back to our top 9 HOPEFULLY he’s fully healthy next year

Hate to break it to you but Ferland's not coming back. He's in Nathan Horton/Chris Pronger/David Clarkson territory. He's going to be on LTIR until his contract ends. His concussion issues are too serious to reasonably expect that he'll ever come back.

 

But if Gadjovich could turn into a poor man's Ferland, that would be a huge win for the Canucks.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Dats hockey said:

And maybe possibly Ferland I don’t mind the cap hit for what he can bring back to our top 9 HOPEFULLY he’s fully healthy next year

It's probably a pretty long shot unfortunately, I think he's likely on LTIR until his contract runs out. But I'd love to have a healthy Ferland back, if he is indeed healthy.

[wildcam]

21 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Rathbone pushing Juolevi for minutes now but we'll see who's ready next season. So far Rathbone's much more exciting skating-wise and makes the riskier, big passes whereas Juolevi is far better rounded and stronger defensively. Having a LD set of Hughes, Juolevi and Rathbone may be the best in the league in 3-5 years time, we just need to complement those guys really well with complementary RDs.

 

Hughes needs a safe shutdown defenceman who can hit but also skate well to cover all his gaps, yeah Hamonic has been alright for now but someone a bit better defensively would be ideal. I think Myers would be the perfect partner for Juolevi or Rathbone to be honest leaving one final spot up for grabs.

 

I think next season we have to play Juolevi more, around 18 minutes a night, and have Rathbone slowly working his way in as the number 7 with the occasional 15 minutes a night. However, Green might be tempted by his offence and give him more minutes than Juolevi which would be pretty unfair and unbalanced - Juolevi's defence and physicality is much stronger and that's what we need to build off.

 

I think Rathbone will pass Juolevi before this season is over..

Rathbone - Elite skating - very high hockey IQ --Very offensive  talent -thinks game well..Great passer, #3 D man soon..

only 5'11.. Close to Hughes 

Hughes 5'10

Need to support these young star with tough stay at home D men ...Example Hamonic.......

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, wildcam said:

I think Rathbone will pass Juolevi before this season is over..

Rathbone - Elite skating - very high hockey IQ --Very offensive  talent -thinks game well..Great passer, #3 D man soon..

only 5'11.. Close to Hughes 

Hughes 5'10

Need to support these young star with tough stay at home D men ...Example Hamonic.......

Depends where you look but Rathbone is 190lb on the Utica web site, it helps, as you mention he has great skating which comes from good balance and good core strength. He's a shoe in as we speak

[Smashian Kassian]

22 hours ago, Locke Lamora said:

I don’t see things like that at all.

 

I think that only after these two games Rathbone is very close to passing OJ on the depth chart. I’ve yet seen any evidence that Juolevi is a markedly better defender than Jack. Now, could Rathbone have a meltdown defensively here soon sort of like Chatfield did that put him out of the lineup for a while? Sure. But even if OJ “thinks” the game better defensively, Rathbone can do things athletically that can make up for this. Then you add the skating and powerful shot - that wrister top shelf was high end stuff, and he has a huge point shot as well - and I think we will end the year with Rathbone thought to be slotted higher than OJ in the D-man hierarchy. One thing is for sure, assuming that Rathbone plays in most of the remaining games (hopefully with OJ getting his fair share) we will have a better idea whether or not I’m spouting nonsense here. Which I very well may be…but it’s my read of things currently.

 

Reading between the lines, you can tell Travis Green is really excited about Jack as well.

 

Now, in saying that I think Rathbone is on the verge of eclipsing OJ in the lineup, I still think it’s very important to keep working with Juolevi and giving him ice time so that he becomes an everyday, dependable piece of the puzzle.

 

I've yet to see anything that tellsnme Rathbone is better defensively than Juolevi at the moment.

 

I think Greens assessment was accurate, Rathbone's timing in the D-zone looks a little behind. I agree he has the athletic advantage, but it'll only do so much as the puck moves so fast. Not saying Rathbone doesn't think well enough to fix that; he does and he will. But he's only played like 10-15 pro games, he's still just starting. 

 

Juolevi is more seasoned. He doesn't move as quick obviously but he knows where to go and what to do. His reads all over the ice are the strength of his game.

 

Im torn between thinking Rathbone might start next year in the AHL (just to get more experience, work on details) and thinking it's an open competition. In which case Rathbone may have the upper hand.

 

It'll be interesting to see if Juolevi can add a step, if so he could be a really good T4D imo. And the kind that could replace Edler as a stable minute muncher. 

 

 

20 hours ago, Rick Blight said:

Agree completely. I think the organization has very high expectations for Rathbone while I also believe they have pretty much written off Juolevi as part of their future top 6 D. I hope I am wrong but it seems to me that Green has reached for reasons/excuses why Juolevi should not be in the lineup all season long. I actually would not be surprised at all to see them move Juolevi in the off-season and I think that will be a mistake.

 

I'm not sure. Green has been very complimentary of Juolevi. I think Green likes Juolevi. Didn't he say cap reasons were partly why he didn't play for awhile?

[Googlie]

47 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I've yet to see anything that tellsnme Rathbone is better defensively than Juolevi at the moment.

 

I think Greens assessment was accurate, Rathbone's timing in the D-zone looks a little behind. I agree he has the athletic advantage, but it'll only do so much as the puck moves so fast. Not saying Rathbone doesn't think well enough to fix that; he does and he will. But he's only played like 10-15 pro games, he's still just starting. 

 

Juolevi is more seasoned. He doesn't move as quick obviously but he knows where to go and what to do. His reads all over the ice are the strength of his game.

 

Im torn between thinking Rathbone might start next year in the AHL (just to get more experience, work on details) and thinking it's an open competition. In which case Rathbone may have the upper hand.

 

It'll be interesting to see if Juolevi can add a step, if so he could be a really good T4D imo. And the kind that could replace Edler as a stable minute muncher. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure. Green has been very complimentary of Juolevi. I think Green likes Juolevi. Didn't he say cap reasons were partly why he didn't play for awhile?

Indeed. - they have been managing to +/- $50,000 each game.  One of the reasons why Loui was never called up - his extra cap hit would mean that 2 players would need to be dropped to the taxi squad to remain cap compliant. Chatfield's hit is $700k, OJ's is $833k (Rathbone is $925k) constant juggling act.  MacEwen drops out at $825k, replaced by Michaelis at $700k, so JB can play both Rathbone and Juolevi without hitting the ceiling

[sockeye]

Rathbone is showing to be a very good D prospect.  He's a smart player and solid defensively.  He definitely deserves a D spot on the team next season.

[DownUndaCanuck]

On 5/7/2021 at 9:40 PM, Locke Lamora said:

I don’t see things like that at all.

 

I think that only after these two games Rathbone is very close to passing OJ on the depth chart. I’ve yet seen any evidence that Juolevi is a markedly better defender than Jack. Now, could Rathbone have a meltdown defensively here soon sort of like Chatfield did that put him out of the lineup for a while? Sure. But even if OJ “thinks” the game better defensively, Rathbone can do things athletically that can make up for this. Then you add the skating and powerful shot - that wrister top shelf was high end stuff, and he has a huge point shot as well - and I think we will end the year with Rathbone thought to be slotted higher than OJ in the D-man hierarchy. One thing is for sure, assuming that Rathbone plays in most of the remaining games (hopefully with OJ getting his fair share) we will have a better idea whether or not I’m spouting nonsense here. Which I very well may be…but it’s my read of things currently.

 

Reading between the lines, you can tell Travis Green is really excited about Jack as well.

 

Now, in saying that I think Rathbone is on the verge of eclipsing OJ in the lineup, I still think it’s very important to keep working with Juolevi and giving him ice time so that he becomes an everyday, dependable piece of the puzzle.

After the game against Edmonton I think he's pretty close to surpassing Juolevi but this is a tiny sample size - just like what happened to Chatfield. Juolevi has played more and is a bit more "proven" but not by much and he's more physical/physically mature which is something we need in the future, plus he played well on the PK at times.

 

They're different defenders and we need both of them to be successful, but we need to groom them both properly to get them to their best. 

 

Right now Rathbone's a +4 in a couple of games where we got shelled defensively so that is certainly something. We know he can pass and put up points but (so far) he hasn't been a defensive liability against the best offensive players in the league so I think he deserves to start until/if he starts having defensive blunders which tends to come with more time and pressure but hopefully he'll continue to impress for the rest of the season.

[DownUndaCanuck]

19 hours ago, wildcam said:

I think Rathbone will pass Juolevi before this season is over..

Rathbone - Elite skating - very high hockey IQ --Very offensive  talent -thinks game well..Great passer, #3 D man soon..

only 5'11.. Close to Hughes 

Hughes 5'10

Need to support these young star with tough stay at home D men ...Example Hamonic.......

This is key. I think Myers and Juolevi played well together for a stretch, Hamonic seems to complement Hughes well so I wonder if Schmidt (or Edler) on the off-side would complement a more mobile Rathbone well?

[Googlie]

40 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

This is key. I think Myers and Juolevi played well together for a stretch, Hamonic seems to complement Hughes well so I wonder if Schmidt (or Edler) on the off-side would complement a more mobile Rathbone well?

He had tremendous chemistry with Woo for the handful of games they played together in Utica.  Maybe that's the pairing to consider going forward?

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Googlie said:

He had tremendous chemistry with Woo for the handful of games they played together in Utica.  Maybe that's the pairing to consider going forward?

Woo plays big PK minutes too.   I see our second pair in two years as Bone Woo.

[Googlie]

43 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Woo plays big PK minutes too.   I see our second pair in two years as Bone Woo.

Also, in yesterday's game Woo was the 1st PP quarterback.  Cull is using him in every situation 

[Googlie]

He seems to have filled out a bit too.  In his draft year he was 6' and 205 lbs.  Looks about 215 lbs now, and I bet he's stretched to 6'1", maybe a tad more.  Solidly built 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Googlie said:

Also, in yesterday's game Woo was the 1st PP quarterback.  Cull is using him in every situation 

 

4 minutes ago, Googlie said:

Also, in yesterday's game Woo was the 1st PP quarterback.  Cull is using him in every situation 

If Bennett gets replaces Green with Cull (definitely possible) I wonder if we see more minutes for Bone, and OJ?  Could even see Woo too?  

[Googlie]

39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 

If Bennett gets replaces Green with Cull (definitely possible) I wonder if we see more minutes for Bone, and OJ?  Could even see Woo too?  

In one of his Observer-Dispatch interviews, Cull said he talks daily with Green about systems, strategy, player development, etc.  So they are on the same page.  I am sure that it's only a matter of time before Rathbone, for instance, replaces Schmidt or Myers on our PP2.  He was a force there in Utica.  As well, introducing Juolevi to our PK units is a no-brainer... he was the go-to guy there last season.  Personally, I think that OJ is  being groomed as the minute munching Edler replacement.

 

The one big disappointment for me is Green not deploying Rafferty.  Guy was a sensation last year.  AHL all star.  If I am Seattle, forget Holtby or Myers or Gadjovich - pick Rafferty (if Vancouver extends him) or sign him as a UFA.  He could be to them what Shea Theodore is to Vegas