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Jack Rathbone | #3 | D


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We have different take aways on OJ then in one key area.  His awareness/processing.  
 

To me OJ’s issues were more a off-season or two of injury free training to address.  
 

If he can be ready for camp with the gym and off ice training goals he was given by the Canucks this off season are met of exceeded, I think we will see a very different player who is way harder to beat to the outside.  
 

 To me, OJ’s issues were more likely related to a physical weakness due to injury in a very core and hard to build when playing kinda issue, not IQ at all.  
 

League Minimum 1 year deal.  Looks like OJ is going to prove one of us right this year.  
 

he is either confident because he is self aware and believes he can overcome his haphazard injury history and be the guy he was drafted to be, or he is a guy who will demonstrate the Dunning Krueger effect, not talking about NickelBack…. Lol.  
 

take care Fred.  The Yankees are coming and with them the Delta Variant.  
 

Phats.  

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15 hours ago, nux_win said:

Why does it have to be either or, why not keep them both and hope that they both get regular spots, eventually?  There's no rush to have them both in the lineup right away.  Internal competition is good.  Rathbone may have more offensive upside but there is more to NHL defence than just that.  Juolevi is NHL ready now and so let's see what he's got.  We need good defensive defencemen at this point and having extra guys that can step up when the inevitable injuries hit is not a bad thing.  GCG!

Interesting Read.  https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-battle-for-the-final-defensive-spot/  

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On 8/11/2021 at 1:01 AM, filthycanuck said:

Were you even watching the games? When Hamonic went down, Juolevi had a stretch of games where he was good, even very good some nights Coach said so as well, so for you to say he was a disappointment last season is assenine. What did you think? Did you think he was going to look like Cale Makar?. Juolevi had a few rough games but he defintely took a step forward.

 

 

Yeah, with a critical unbiased eye lol.  You should really give this a read.  It sheds some light on Green’s decision making down the stretch of last season.  https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-battle-for-the-final-defensive-spot/
 

i clipped some paragraphs from the article.  

 

 

image.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Pure961089 said:

Yeah, with a critical unbiased eye lol.  You should really give this a read.  It sheds some light on Green’s decision making down the stretch of last season.  https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-battle-for-the-final-defensive-spot/
 

i clipped some paragraphs from the article.  

 

 

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Hate to break it to you, nobody cares analytics.  Its a garbage stat, also known as a bunch of excuses

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4 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

Yeah, it was an interesting read, thanks.  I more or less agree but while Rathbone may have a stronger upside I don't think it's as clear that Rathbone is obviously better all around (right now).  The part I agree with is that they are both going to find their way into the line up one way or the other so the point about who is better is moot.  We need them both to be good.  Go Canucks Go!

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7 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Hate to break it to you, nobody cares analytics.  Its a garbage stat, also known as a bunch of excuses

The Canucks used to think the way you do.  Decades of draft picks like Libor Polasik over Valeri Bure.   Statistics Shatistics. Who needs actual facts when we got our feeeeels.  I understand, fans get emotionally attached to drafted players, especially high picks. The degree of cognitive dissonance is funny.   What’s sad is Juolevi would without a doubt be a more developed prospect that Rathbone at this point had it not been for consecutive years of devastating season ending injuries.  But with Juolevi, I just can’t ignore the lack of overall development compared to Rathbone who has consistently improved with injury free seasons the last 3 years.  

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3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Speaking of unbiased...

 

FYI, the reason he had his play reduced 'despite the team being tired near the end of the season save recovering from their Covid 19 outbreak', was because OJ was one of the players hardest hit by it and had lost a lot of weight. He wasn't remotely in game shape, due entirely to the illness.

 

And further to this discussion, from my post in OJ's thread:

 

OJ played 19:11 of PK last season. Also averaged a very tilted 59.4% dzone starts as basically a rookie. 

 

Rathbone by comparison had 47% dzone starts. 

 

I'll let you figure out what that likely means Green thinks of their current, respective defensive ability ;)

You should really give the article a chance.  Even if the opinion goes against yours.  It gives you a glimpse of what real professionals think.  

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6 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

At the end of the day, contract status aside, Green should and will go with whatever player he trusts more in the spot.

 

I'm willing to put my faith in Green on this decision.

Totally agree.  We’re fans with opinions at the end of the day, not professional hockey experts.  

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11 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

You should really give the article a chance.  Even if the opinion goes against yours.  It gives you a glimpse of what real professionals think.  

Professionals that can't be bothered to source or cite facts?

 

And I have already read that article a couple days ago. As usual, it's a bunch of cherry picked silliness to suit a narrative with the usual advanced stats bias towards offense. 

 

The only part it got right was showing that Juolevi was better at limiting McDavid's chances and plays PK. Which yet again, should speak to the facts that Juolevi, right now, is the better and more trusted defensive option.

 

Nobody is suggesting Rathbone isn't flashier, more dynamic or likely to put up more offense. He is/would. That however, doesn't make him the better choice for this current roster's needs (D who play D and kill penalties).

Edited by aGENT
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3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Speaking of unbiased...

 

FYI, the reason he had his play reduced 'despite the team being tired near the end of the season save recovering from their Covid 19 outbreak', was because OJ was one of the players hardest hit by it and had lost a lot of weight. He wasn't remotely in game shape, due entirely to the illness.

 

And further to this discussion, from my post in OJ's thread:

 

OJ played 19:11 of PK last season. Also averaged a very tilted 59.4% dzone starts as basically a rookie. 

 

Rathbone by comparison had 47% dzone starts. 

 

I'll let you figure out what that likely means Green thinks of their current, respective defensive ability ;)

Juolevi has just been horribly unlucky as a Canuck prospect and it’s not his fault.  But to dig ones heels in and ignore Rathbone development or even acknowledge the fact he’s now Green”s preferred option on the left side 3rd pairing is not based in reality.  

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7 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Juolevi has just been horribly unlucky as a Canuck prospect and it’s not his fault.  But to dig ones heels in and ignore Rathbone development or even acknowledge the fact he’s now Green”s preferred option on the left side 3rd pairing is not based in reality.  

I'm doing no such thing. I'm QUITE excited about Rathbone's future. I have drafted on my fantasy team for crying out loud! Kid's going to be a stud IMO.

 

I'm not the one ignoring things. See my edited post and the one you just quoted. Juolevi is better and more developed defensively. He's trusted with higher Dzone starts, PK'ing and generally tougher usage than Rathbone. He's nowhere near as dynamic offensively (though still half decent at producing). He's more prepared for the role this team needs out of a defenseman. #reality

 

In no way has he shown to be Green's 'preferred option'.

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3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm doing no such thing. I'm QUITE excited about Rathbone's future. I have drafted on my fantasy team for crying out loud! Kid's going to be a stud IMO.

 

I'm not the one ignoring things. See my edited post and the one you just quoted. Juolevi is better and more developed defensively. He's trusted with higher Dzone starts, PK'ing and generally tougher usage than Rathbone. He's nowhere near as dynamic offensively (though still half decent at producing). He's more prepared for the role this team needs out of a defenseman. #reality

 

In no way has he shown to be Green's 'preferred option'.

Did you read the article or stop the second you saw the word corsi?  Lol.   Green tells you in his own words he preferred Rathbone over Juolevi.  Mix mix mix.  . <iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/S5320pZ25mDMJuYzR5" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/TheYoungTurks-tyt-the-young-turks-network-S5320pZ25mDMJuYzR5">via GIPHY</a></p> 

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2 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Did you read the article or stop the second you saw the word corsi?  Lol.   Green tells you in his own words he preferred Rathbone over Juolevi.  Mix mix mix.  . <iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/S5320pZ25mDMJuYzR5" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/TheYoungTurks-tyt-the-young-turks-network-S5320pZ25mDMJuYzR5">via GIPHY</a></p> 

 Apparently I don’t know how gifs work.  Sad face.  

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2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

About on par with what you evidently know about hockey:P

I’m just trusting in Benning and Green.  They’ve done a pretty good job developing their prospects even tho last year was a Covid anomaly I feel confident they know what they’re doing.  

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12 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Did you read the article or stop the second you saw the word corsi?  Lol.   Green tells you in his own words he preferred Rathbone over Juolevi.  Mix mix mix.  . <iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/S5320pZ25mDMJuYzR5" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/TheYoungTurks-tyt-the-young-turks-network-S5320pZ25mDMJuYzR5">via GIPHY</a></p> 


Sorry, help me out here. I just read the article and I am having trouble finding the quote where Green says he preferred Rathbone over Juolevi.

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10 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

Yeah, with a critical unbiased eye lol.  You should really give this a read.  It sheds some light on Green’s decision making down the stretch of last season.  https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-battle-for-the-final-defensive-spot/
 

i clipped some paragraphs from the article.  

 

 

image.jpeg

An important note to consider with the game to game performance. 

 

This doesn’t mention the fact that OJ was one of the hardest hit by COVID according to Green shortly after returning from break. Which could have likely played a part of his reduced role in the later stages of the year. 
 

He was one of the last guys to come back from recovery. 
 

If I remember correctly Rathbone was unaffected? If that’s so then I wonder if that played some part in Rathbone getting more time overall as he would one of the fewer, fresher healthy players.
 

 

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Both OJ and Rathbone have seen praise from the coaching staff. 
 

Given the fact that we’re arguing who’s preferred by Green or not, it is safe to say we have it good on our left side D. A good problem to have per say.  
 

It should be noted that Rathbone has played the right side before(works well with his shot). It could be an explorable option. 

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