Fred65 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 16 hours ago, Dazzle said: Remember when Forsling was drafted by Benning in the 5th round, and Gillis never could draft a single good player in the later rounds? Little compensation for throwing him away for nothing 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 On 1/18/2022 at 10:12 PM, Fred65 said: Little compensation for throwing him away for nothing @Ray_Cathode Honest or a little skewed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 11 hours ago, FaninMex said: @Ray_Cathode Honest or a little skewed? I don’t know what you mean. Benning traded Forsling after he had had a great world junior performance for an entirely undistinguished Clendenning. Now, Forsling is performing at better than a half a point a game pace for the Panthers. Clendenning is in the AHL. Seems pretty much an accurate assessment to me. A right side defenceman getting more than half a point a game might be a desirable thing, looking at the present day Canucks - especially in light of the fact that other than Myers, we have a tough time moving the puck on defence on the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said: I don’t know what you mean. Benning traded Forsling after he had had a great world junior performance for an entirely undistinguished Clendenning. Now, Forsling is performing at better than a half a point a game pace for the Panthers. Clendenning is in the AHL. Seems pretty much an accurate assessment to me. A right side defenceman getting more than half a point a game might be a desirable thing, looking at the present day Canucks - especially in light of the fact that other than Myers, we have a tough time moving the puck on defence on the right side. I didn’t like the trade at the time but I can at least see what JB was thinking. AC was drafted a full 90 spots higher than GF and was 3-4 years ahead of him in his development, and was coming off a pretty good run for Chicago’s farm team with 118 pts in 2 1/2 years. JB thought he was ready for the NHL and didn’t want to wait for Forsling to develop. Sadly he was very wrong… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 1:24 AM, Ray_Cathode said: Green’s strategy was for the D to back off and surrender the neutral zone and the blue line This seems like a dumb move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 51 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: This seems like a dumb move. The results would suggest that, but it is not intuitively wrong. It has been used in another sport - soccer, and consists of packing the box and looking for a counter. It has been often used by weak teams against stronger ones, and in hockey by teams such as the New Jersey Devils in a variant where NewJersey built big, heavy teams that would ‘lock you up’ with a stick across your body to restrict your movement. It killed the game and made it boring and unwatchable because offensive skill was neutralized. The NHL, facing falling attendance and interest, changed the rules. Green had such a dim view of his defence, especially in his last season and a fragment, that he decided to pull his forwards back and pack the inside p, allowing the opponent to recover most of the pucks that got to the boards, and allowed the other team to shoot and make plays from the outside until they scored. It is like playing with a permanent penalty kill. Teams that are permanently on the PK tend not to do well. Boudreau’s philosophy is exactly the opposite. Now, Boudreau has a great regular season record, but in the playoffs the rules change, the restraint rules are enforced much less, and this may explain Boudreau’s reduced success in the playoffs. That is purely opinion, and I’m open to any better explanation. Opinions invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, 4petesake said: I didn’t like the trade at the time but I can at least see what JB was thinking. AC was drafted a full 90 spots higher than GF and was 3-4 years ahead of him in his development, and was coming off a pretty good run for Chicago’s farm team with 118 pts in 2 1/2 years. JB thought he was ready for the NHL and didn’t want to wait for Forsling to develop. Sadly he was very wrong… Oh, I agree entirely, Benning was taking an “I have to win now view or lose my job.” Remember what route Linden wanted to do, and why he got fired. Seems like pressure for immediate results from ownership, to me, and the resulting cap hell that the new management will have to find a way through. This presented Green with the consequence of a short-term management philosophy, and may have forced him to take an entirely different approach in an attempt to ‘defend’ his job. Take the ‘defend’ there in both senses. There seemed (at least to me) no coherence in Benning’s acquisitions, unless looked at from a short-term, gotta wn now approach. A shame really. He seemed to be good at mining prospects, but not at managing the cap. It would have been interesting, perhaps in an alternate reality, where JB could have been an assistant GM in charge of running scouting and player development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 44 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said: The results would suggest that, but it is not intuitively wrong. It has been used in another sport - soccer, and consists of packing the box and looking for a counter. It has been often used by weak teams against stronger ones, and in hockey by teams such as the New Jersey Devils in a variant where NewJersey built big, heavy teams that would ‘lock you up’ with a stick across your body to restrict your movement. It killed the game and made it boring and unwatchable because offensive skill was neutralized. The NHL, facing falling attendance and interest, changed the rules. Green had such a dim view of his defence, especially in his last season and a fragment, that he decided to pull his forwards back and pack the inside p, allowing the opponent to recover most of the pucks that got to the boards, and allowed the other team to shoot and make plays from the outside until they scored. It is like playing with a permanent penalty kill. Teams that are permanently on the PK tend not to do well. Boudreau’s philosophy is exactly the opposite. Now, Boudreau has a great regular season record, but in the playoffs the rules change, the restraint rules are enforced much less, and this may explain Boudreau’s reduced success in the playoffs. That is purely opinion, and I’m open to any better explanation. Opinions invited. You might be right. That would explain why opponents scored first practically all the time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said: This seems like a dumb move. Green might as well tell Demko to wear his mask backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 7 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said: Remember what route Linden wanted to do, and why he got fired. Linden was the one with the infamous "wouldn't be fair to the twins" comments, not Benning. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 9 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said: Oh, I agree entirely, Benning was taking an “I have to win now view or lose my job.” Remember what route Linden wanted to do, and why he got fired. Seems like pressure for immediate results from ownership, to me, and the resulting cap hell that the new management will have to find a way through. This presented Green with the consequence of a short-term management philosophy, and may have forced him to take an entirely different approach in an attempt to ‘defend’ his job. Take the ‘defend’ there in both senses. There seemed (at least to me) no coherence in Benning’s acquisitions, unless looked at from a short-term, gotta wn now approach. A shame really. He seemed to be good at mining prospects, but not at managing the cap. It would have been interesting, perhaps in an alternate reality, where JB could have been an assistant GM in charge of running scouting and player development. I honestly think that you have it backwards. Linden left and then we went into a real rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 15 hours ago, 4petesake said: I didn’t like the trade at the time but I can at least see what JB was thinking. AC was drafted a full 90 spots higher than GF and was 3-4 years ahead of him in his development, and was coming off a pretty good run for Chicago’s farm team with 118 pts in 2 1/2 years. JB thought he was ready for the NHL and didn’t want to wait for Forsling to develop. Sadly he was very wrong… I remember vividly watching Forsling in the WJC. He was terrific and in every tough position the Swedish coach trotted out Forsling, PP, PK and most impostant the last minute of the game/period. I really thought we'd caught sunshine in a bottle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 28 minutes ago, Fred65 said: I remember vividly watching Forsling in the WJC. He was terrific and in every tough position the Swedish coach trotted out Forsling, PP, PK and most impostant the last minute of the game/period. I really thought we'd caught sunshine in a bottle Exactly what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 On 1/23/2022 at 8:59 AM, Ray_Cathode said: The results would suggest that, but it is not intuitively wrong. It has been used in another sport - soccer, and consists of packing the box and looking for a counter. It has been often used by weak teams against stronger ones, and in hockey by teams such as the New Jersey Devils in a variant where NewJersey built big, heavy teams that would ‘lock you up’ with a stick across your body to restrict your movement. It killed the game and made it boring and unwatchable because offensive skill was neutralized. The NHL, facing falling attendance and interest, changed the rules. Green had such a dim view of his defence, especially in his last season and a fragment, that he decided to pull his forwards back and pack the inside p, allowing the opponent to recover most of the pucks that got to the boards, and allowed the other team to shoot and make plays from the outside until they scored. It is like playing with a permanent penalty kill. Teams that are permanently on the PK tend not to do well. Boudreau’s philosophy is exactly the opposite. Now, Boudreau has a great regular season record, but in the playoffs the rules change, the restraint rules are enforced much less, and this may explain Boudreau’s reduced success in the playoffs. That is purely opinion, and I’m open to any better explanation. Opinions invited. It’s a result of playing not to lose vs playing to win. also with soccer you have more space in transition. The equivalent would be playing an inverse torpedo system or a full ice 1-3-1. if you pack the box you need an outlet and a quick transition 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/23/2022 at 10:56 AM, VancouverHabitant said: I honestly think that you have it backwards. Linden left and then we went into a real rebuild. That was a rebuild? More like a financial debacle. It was also a ‘rebuild’ that consisted of trading picks for players and getting older, rather than by trading older assets for picks and valuable prospects and creating a younger, more dynamic team. Yes, he drafted some younger players, everybody does, every team gets draft picks every year - but you don’t rebuild by seeking out old, expensive free agents and spending your cap into the foreseeable future to win now. As in here: https://canucksarmy.com/2022/01/23/what-canucks-trevor-linden-slower-rebuild/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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