Petrus Palmu | RW/LW

[ilduce39]

Players develop by giving them expectations / goals to achieve.  There’s consequences when they don’t meet them and rewards when they do.  

 

if the goal were to simply “develop petrus palmu” then sure maybe you give the kid a ton of rope and let him work through the kinks on the ice.  

 

But if you want a an effective developmental system for everyone, there needs to be a fairly even set of expectations that need to be adhered to and consequences (less ice time) if you don’t meet them.  That applies to vets and rookies, perhaps not “equally” but certainly fairly.

 

we hear the helicopter parent whinging every time a prospect gets their ice time cut but thus far have any of them (save “take my stick and go home” Tryamkin) been the worse for it?  

 

Eventually they need to meet expectations - be it through practice and earning it back or being given the rope to be able to play through it - I’d wager the guys with the top 6 talent rise to the top regardless of some tough love.

 

The difference is they’re hard working and earning it under one system, with the respect of coaches and teammates.... and you risk entitlement and some hard feelings in the room under the other where you gift them time.  

 

In my opinion anyways.

Edited January 10, 2019 by ilduce39

[J.I.A.H.N]

Well, as said, the AHL is a development League, and by its design, is there to develop players for the NHL, in most cases...….

 

So, I would think that the number one goal is to get the kid playing time, and solid coaching...…..

I don't know if they get game film of their games, but if they do, and they should.....they need minutes to be able to provide that tape

then one on one meetings with the player to show him on film what he is or isn't doing

then drills need to be designed to teach that void

then game time to apply said designed practiced techniques 

then rinse and repeat

In saying that, Palmu's weakness's are common, and are drills that are worked on during most practices

and he would be seeing them a lot....

What I would like to know is, of all the games he was ready and able to play in, how many did he actually play in

and how many minutes a games was he getting?

And did he get the information he needed?

In saying that, was he actually treated poorly or was he just not a priority?

Maybe they are sugar coating the truth, not to crush and hope, and he simply wasn't good enough?

maybe he should have been in the ECHL? We do not know...…...

I would say there is probably a little truth all away around and the real truth is in the middle somewhere......

If he is getting Ice time where he is at...….give him a year or 2 and see how high he flys

[J.I.A.H.N]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

The issue is not internal competition.  It's who that competition is with.  Our young prospects should not have to compete with AHL journeymen, who are only better because they are older and more mature/experienced.  Even guys like Boucher are getting too old, and shouldn't be taking spots from guys, who might actually play for the Canucks.  Of course we need some veteran AHL guys to lead the team, but we don't need a team loaded with these types.   

Yes Alf I agree somewhat....but ice time is earned to some extent...………so give the young guys 8 to 10 mins a game, then if they want more, make them earn it....just like everyone else has to...….. it is not easy to get to the top of the heap...…...but they can not take it for granted...…….

 

A rhetorical question, but do you know how many really really good juniors never get drafted or make it past their first camp? Because all they think they have to do is put on their skates? It reminds me of a story about Torrie Robertson, who played in Nanaimo, then Victoria, and made the NHL...….not a great skilled hockey player, but a great fighter, and I heard stories of him practicing his skating, when ever he had a chance.....cause he still needed to be able to skate like an NHLer...and he did....I always respected him for that. It is not easy. Torie never quit!

[alfstonker]

I am pi--ed off at how often whenever there is a problem with any of our prospects the willingness of some on here (Alf is certainly consistent at it) to somehow blame our own organisation.

 

What these people conveniently forget is how many of our prospects seem to have no problem in progressing and developing. And no, the reason is not they are all different. They may have different personalities but in the main the goals that are laid down for them to allow and assist THEM to succeed are the same. In the main they involve humility to take in the coaching, hard work and consistency. That is not too much to ask any young sportsman who is determined to make a living in the game, they presumably love in the first place.

 

The Comets are not a pilot scheme for new ideas although I would hope they are progressive in their thinking.

 

We do not treat our prospects any different to most other affiliates, we are not the only affiliate who uses a combination of AHL vets and prospects. This is not some innovation we have suddenly decided to employ.

 

It is all based on confidence. Confidence in the main is built through consistency in good performance levels and of course winning to a certain degree. These AHL vets are there to impart their experience and to ensure situations they have been through before do not phase the youngsters, to show leadership and set an example of how to do things the right way and how hard work brings its own rewards.

 

That is not achieved by having rookies in all positions in the team, so in order to benefit and develop the youngsters who respond to coaching, those prospects who are slow on the uptake or indeed prefer their own ideas to the coaching staff, surrender their places at least temporarily, to vets who drive forward the standards required by the team and the coaching staff.
 

[Fred65]

9 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I am pi--ed off at how often whenever there is a problem with any of our prospects the willingness of some on here (Alf is certainly consistent at it) to somehow blame our own organisation.

 

What these people conveniently forget is how many of our prospects seem to have no problem in progressing and developing. And no, the reason is not they are all different. They may have different personalities but in the main the goals that are laid down for them to allow and assist THEM to succeed are the same. In the main they involve humility to take in the coaching, hard work and consistency. That is not too much to ask any young sportsman who is determined to make a living in the game, they presumably love in the first place.

 

The Comets are not a pilot scheme for new ideas although I would hope they are progressive in their thinking.

 

We do not treat our prospects any different to most other affiliates, we are not the only affiliate who uses a combination of AHL vets and prospects. This is not some innovation we have suddenly decided to employ.

 

It is all based on confidence. Confidence in the main is built through consistency in good performance levels and of course winning to a certain degree. These AHL vets are there to impart their experience and to ensure situations they have been through before do not phase the youngsters, to show leadership and set an example of how to do things the right way and how hard work brings its own rewards.

 

That is not achieved by having rookies in all positions in the team, so in order to benefit and develop the youngsters who respond to coaching, those prospects who are slow on the uptake or indeed prefer their own ideas to the coaching staff, surrender their places at least temporarily, to vets who drive forward the standards required by the team and the coaching staff.
 

To some degree things have chnaged quite radically. In the 60-70's the NHL was a smaller league and the model leaned more towards a throw away league. If player "A" didn't fit then bring in player "B" or "C" etc. As the league expanded it became more difficult to source the volume of players, there was no KHL either. Of course there was no salary Cap either so the rich teams could plunder at will, and screw the consequences. Much of todays management learned their trade during that era. Some adapted, some not so much. In part that's the reason for managers/coach's are trending towards younger. The soccer revolution brought change, Hungary brought in the third man style, Belgium total football, plus the likes of Argentina and Brazil broke into the spotlight ( in the 60's Brazil/Argentina/Uraguay were none identities.) Hockey is more provincial in it's views and still clings to old ways. Players such as Palmu have value and they can't leave not knowing the whats and whys on their future. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, The 5th Line said:

Well it was Palmu himself who mentioned the lack of communication it's not like people are randomly jumping to conclusion, and when it comes to development the organization is 100% to blame.  Year after year we produce next to nothing in our minor league system.  

 

 

I know big Nik wasn't in Utica, but I wonder if part of the reason he left was our poor management of his development?  there is the story about Willie D (imwit) insisting Nikita play dirty like Pronger, right?

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Willie and Doug Lidster are both clueless and this is coming from a guy who is usually pretty lenient when it comes to coaches.  I remember Lidster comparing Phlip Larsson's play style to that of Erik Karlsson...like come on dude.  Not to mention he wore a baseball batting helmet to practice like a weirdo

 

 

I 100% feel that if Nik was here while Green was coach, he would have stayed, even with his young wife's wanting to go home.  Green would have been hard on Nik for fitness, but wouldn't have tried to get him to be a dirty player, who went out of his way to injure other players.  Pronger literally stomped on Kesler, and he said afterwards, he did stuff like that on purpose to keep the other players' honest, and create more room for himself.  Nik likely watched those videos of Pronger and thought, what the hell is going on here?

Are we keeping our farm team in Utica because it's out of sight of the local media and fans?

[Gaudette Celly]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:49 PM, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

But to say Utica and their staff aren't committed to develop the prospects is absolutely foolish.  That statement does not reflect the true nature of what is happening in Utica...just because 2 guys have struggled, doesn't reflect the fact that there are many other young players who have stepped up and showing bright futures for this organization. 

 

Media and fans who look from the outside who haven't done their homework or haven't followed along in detail jump on every single lead and blow it out of proportion.

Enter Botchford, essentially calling Lind and Gadjovich busted prospects, "At the age where they have to show something by now"... at 20 years old, three months into their pro careers.   

Absolute garbage.

 

 

Bottom line: 

You do what the coach says, you work your butt off, you get results = you get ice-time.  "But you gotta play me coach, to show what I can do" -- EVERY player says that same thing, it's no excuse at all.

[HockeyHarry]

I remember AV coaching the Manitoba moose. Tons of the old Canucks core came from that. 

I hope same happens with Utica and they develop the young guys correctly.

 

i haven’t been able to watch Comets games this season but I hope canuck prospects get the majority of ice time over the “not in Canuck system” players.

Edited January 11, 2019 by HockeyHarry

[canuckledraggin]

50 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Enter Botchford, essentially calling Lind and Gadjovich busted prospects, "At the age where they have to show something by now"... at 20 years old, three months into their pro careers.   

Absolute garbage.

 

 

Bottom line: 

You do what the coach says, you work your butt off, you get results = you get ice-time.  "But you gotta play me coach, to show what I can do" -- EVERY player says that same thing, it's no excuse at all.

I looked at our current roster lately and almost every player, with the exception of the top 10 picks, has spent significant time in the AHL. 90+ percent of players go through the AHL in order to make it to the NHL. Why would our prospects be any different?

[alfstonker]

13 hours ago, Fred65 said:

To some degree things have chnaged quite radically. In the 60-70's the NHL was a smaller league and the model leaned more towards a throw away league. If player "A" didn't fit then bring in player "B" or "C" etc. As the league expanded it became more difficult to source the volume of players, there was no KHL either. Of course there was no salary Cap either so the rich teams could plunder at will, and screw the consequences. Much of todays management learned their trade during that era. Some adapted, some not so much. In part that's the reason for managers/coach's are trending towards younger. The soccer revolution brought change, Hungary brought in the third man style, Belgium total football, plus the likes of Argentina and Brazil broke into the spotlight ( in the 60's Brazil/Argentina/Uraguay were none identities.) Hockey is more provincial in it's views and still clings to old ways. Players such as Palmu have value and they can't leave not knowing the whats and whys on their future. 

Was that not Holland?

[alfstonker]

13 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Well it was Palmu himself who mentioned the lack of communication it's not like people are randomly jumping to conclusion, and when it comes to development the organization is 100% to blame.  Year after year we produce next to nothing in our minor league system.  

 

 

Bollocks. 

Off course the player would say that. It's exactly the point I am making.

You are also wrong about development as the problem in the past has been our scouting/picks. None of our players went on to shine anywhere else. 

It is only since JB came we have had anything worthwhile to work with.

[canuckledraggin]

8 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

I remember AV coaching the Manitoba moose. Tons of the old Canucks core came from that. 

I hope same happens with Utica and they develop the young guys correctly.

 

i haven’t been able to watch Comets games this season but I hope canuck prospects get the majority of ice time over the “not in Canuck system” players.

It will. Instant gratification is in full effect with this fanbase. There was nothing in the system when Benning got here. It's not as though Jensen and Grenier were undiscovered talent who made it with another team. If these guys can play in the NHL they will. If they can't, then they'll be ply their trade in lesser leagues. It's professional hockey not the special olympics.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[HockeyHarry]

5 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

It will. Instant gratification is in full effect with this fanbase. There was nothing in the system when Benning got here. It's not as though Jensen and Grenier were undiscovered talent who made it with another team. If these guys can play in the NHL they will. If they can't, then they'll be ply their trade in lesser leagues. It's professional hockey not the special olympics.

The Comets are a development system for Canucks prospects and should be used as such. Coachs should talk even more with the players. If a player is saying the coach staff isn’t communicating with its player then JB needs to have a serious yelling at that coaching staff.

[RetroCanuck]

13 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Juolevi, McCann, Virtanen, Tryamkin were all dealt with horribly.  Gaunce the refrigerator can play an NHL game but can't actually get anything done, Gaudette much of the same so far and clearly they wan't him developing far away from Utica.   Lind, Gadjovich, Dahlen all 2nd round picks having "meh" years, yes I know they are rookies but still showing little signs of progression thus far.  Little Jordan Subban's AHL career took a serious nose dive after we tried to teach him how to play defense, as did Hunter Shinaruk's.  Stecher fast tracked, Baertschi mostly developed in Calgary just needed change of scenery. Finally Demko has risen to the top after years of solid progression but even still, we haven't seen him play yet and he is taking the goalie's long road.  Jasek and MacEwen could prove to be good examples of drafting/developing..hopefully

 

We don't develop young talent well it's been this way for years.  Boeser, Petterson and Horvat are special kinds of players, they don't need to be hand held. 

 

Id say we developed Horvat well in his first few years but I must agree with your overall message.

 

This offseason and next year are going to be huge for the development of our young players. If guys like Lind, Gadj, Dahlen arent showing progression then there's something wrong with the system.

 

Patience is key but you need to see at least some progress.

[UticaHockey]

2 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

The Comets are a development system for Canucks prospects and should be used as such. Coachs should talk even more with the players. If a player is saying the coach staff isn’t communicating with its player then JB needs to have a serious yelling at that coaching staff.

Why do so many people take Palmu's comments as the gospel without questioning if they are 100% accurate?  Palmu was interviewed by Vancouver media member and basically threw his GM and coach under the bus for not communicating to him why he didn't play as much in Utica as he thought he should.  Both Ryan Johnson and Trent Cull have since been interviewed and basically said that the expectations and feedback to the players are consistently communicated.  If you go to page 100 of the Utica Comets thread you will fine a series of Tweets from Craig MacEwen (Zack's dad) I posted that supports the Comets coaching staff and their use of video review as part of communication process to each player.  MacEwen states that onus is ALWAYS on the player and he finds it hard to believe that Palmu was left hanging.  

 

Is it not possible that Palmu's ego got a little bruised by his experience in Utica and wanted to deflect the blame back on his coaches?  I'm not willing to take his word blindly over Cull or Johnson because Petrus Palmu has his own credibility issues that need to be taken into consideration.  Go back to page 15 in this thread and read about the legal issues that this kid got into in Finland because of illegally catching protected species of fish in restricted areas.  Not once but he did this multiple times after being previously warned about it.  In the grand schemes of things do I really care about his illegal fishing activities when he was a 20 year old kid?  No....but it does make me question the word of a now 21 year old kid over the adult coaches and GM that he threw under the bus to the Vancouver media.

 

At the end of the day he did not play well enough when he did have his chances to stay in the line up.  I have no idea what was said to him or what he was asked to work on.  But I don't automatically believe what he claims was said or lack there of.  And a word of advice to him....throwing adults who are there to coach and guide you under the bus when you are a 21 year old kid that has proven nothing is not a good career move.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, UticaHockey said:

Why do so many people take Palmu's comments as the gospel without questioning if they are 100% accurate?  Palmu was interviewed by Vancouver media member and basically threw his GM and coach under the bus for not communicating to him why he didn't play as much in Utica as he thought he should.  Both Ryan Johnson and Trent Cull have since been interviewed and basically said that the expectations and feedback to the players are consistently communicated.  If you go to page 100 of the Utica Comets thread you will fine a series of Tweets from Craig MacEwen (Zack's dad) I posted that supports the Comets coaching staff and their use of video review as part of communication process to each player.  MacEwen states that onus is ALWAYS on the player and he finds it hard to believe that Palmu was left hanging.  

 

Is it not possible that Palmu's ego got a little bruised by his experience in Utica and wanted to deflect the blame back on his coaches?  I'm not willing to take his word blindly over Cull or Johnson because Petrus Palmu has his own credibility issues that need to be taken into consideration.  Go back to page 15 in this thread and read about the legal issues that this kid got into in Finland because of illegally catching protected species of fish in restricted areas.  Not once but he did this multiple times after being previously warned about it.  In the grand schemes of things do I really care about his illegal fishing activities when he was a 20 year old kid?  No....but it does make me question the word of a now 21 year old kid over the adult coaches and GM that he threw under the bus to the Vancouver media.

 

At the end of the day he did not play well enough when he did have his chances to stay in the line up.  I have no idea what was said to him or what he was asked to work on.  But I don't automatically believe what he claims was said or lack there of.  And a word of advice to him....throwing adults who are there to coach and guide you under the bus when you are a 21 year old kid that has proven nothing is not a good career move.

I do agree with this........it's humbling for a lot of these players, who have always been the stars of their teams, to get to that level and struggle to find their way.  

 

I'm willing to bet that there was a bit of a language issue with the statement as well.  I know PP speaks English pretty well, but it's easy to create a misunderstanding when it's not your primary language.

 

I

[UticaHockey]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

I do agree with this........it's humbling for a lot of these players, who have always been the stars of their teams, to get to that level and struggle to find their way.  

 

I'm willing to bet that there was a bit of a language issue with the statement as well.  I know PP speaks English pretty well, but it's easy to create a misunderstanding when it's not your primary language.

 

I

And it's not like the Vancouver media to use that to create a big story during a slow day would it?  Look at the timing....the Canucks finished up the road trip and had multiple days off before they started the home stand.  With two sports talk radio stations in Vancouver and countless Canucks Experts on Twitter it's always a race for higher ratings and more clicks.  

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

And it's not like the Vancouver media to use that to create a big story during a slow day would it?  Look at the timing....the Canucks finished up the road trip and had multiple days off before they started the home stand.  With two sports talk radio stations in Vancouver and countless Canucks Experts on Twitter it's always a race for higher ratings and more clicks.  

a sad, sad but true story