Van/Edm(Proposal)

[The Lock]

11 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yet Nuge was wedged behind two obvious stars, wasn't he? Being a top pick, we'd have to think his ceiling is much higher.

 

Could see RNH as a 30g/70 pts guy, with the right linemates. Local kid, who's age fits in really well here(24).

 

& most everyone agrees Sutter's contract is pretty meh. But he returns home too. Edm could really use him nicely, in that 3C slot.

 Next yr, Granny will be due for substantially more than 900k.

 

I really like how this could upgrade 2 of our previous transactions.

Except RNH still has around the same, if not more, time on ice than Granlund. If the argument is about being on the 3rd line, well so has Granlund. RNH has also 100 more shots on goal during the season so it's not like RNH has just been sitting on the bench. Granlund's more likely to be used in stay at home situations so that also partially explains that. If you think about it, that's pretty impressive for a guy we traded Shinkaruk for, to be pretty much keeping up with a 1st overall like that.

 

Not only that but Granlund's shown a lot of improvement as of late. RNH hasn't. Think about who might actually have more value at this point. If RNH wasn't a 1st overall pick, I bet you Granlund arguably ends up being more sought after. In my opinion, people have way too many diamonds in their eyes when talking about RNH. 

[Aircool]

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

5.1 mill extra for a player that had 11 extra points, actually scored less goals in 13 more games, and is on a noticeable downswing. And you're citing, goals for/goals against per 60 minutes when one team finished with 103 points and the other finished with 69 points? 

Yeah 5.1 Million now, how much in 2-3 years? That's all I was saying, I think that is your most valid point. You didn't mention that in your original post though, which is another issue I took. You were simply saying Granlund was a more rounded player. This is just factually inaccurate. Is RNH on a downswing though? Or has he just seen a decline in ice time and a reduction in the quality of his linemates, offensive opportunities, and powerplay time?

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Just think about what you're saying for a second. Nugent Hopkins had a 2.23 goals against on 5v5 play vs a 1.89 goals against on 5v5.....On a 103 point team! Interesting how you leave the massive discrepancies between the quality of each team out of your post.

Well I cited to you the players they've both played with. If you think Milan Lucic was doing defensive work, then okay... If you say so. I don't see any norris trophy candidates on the Edmonton backend putting up 60+ pts... His linemates surely weren't either... So while his team was good, the players he played with weren't particularly so good, so I think this is a complete strawman.

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Christ 

You have no idea how much I echo this sentiment.

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Also, you cite Hopkins whopping 44% FO % as some sort of plus, and compare it to the FO% of a player that's primarily a winger . Talk about skewering reality to suit your ridiculous narrative.

Granlund is supposed to be a center, but he can't get the work done defensively and in the circle to stay at center. This is why he's gotten shoved to the wing. For a player who is supposedly more rounded than RNH, he seems awfully less rounded. I'm not trying to make Granlund a center, because he's shown that although he used to be one, he won't be one in the future, but that's kind of my point.

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

And for 5.1 million extra dollars? No thanks. 

 

Thank God you're not running this team. This type of idiocy is exactly what can run a franchise into the ground.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade Granlund for RNH... RNH is not ever going to be a part of any successful Canucks team, we're a long way away from that. The only way I'd do something like that is if we got a significant long term asset alongside him.. Even then... Doesn't make sense, a trade that looks like that just would never happen. Certainly not centered around Granlund, maybe he's a secondary piece, still would never happen.

 

I was purely contesting the notion that Granlund is a more rounded player... That's a foolish statement, one that you've completely dodged in this post, because it is not defensible. So you can reply to all the other things I've said in this post, telling me how I'm wrong, but unless you reply to this, there is really no point. The rest is just context I use to justify my statement, and really I don't even need it, you're so far wrong on this that some would shake their head at me for bothering to justify this.

[TheGuardian_]

14 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

I'd prefer this to be Sutter and Baer or even just Sutter but I like the idea of bringing in more skill at C... but the Nuge sucks on face-offs, but we do have the guru Manny Malholtra who may be able to improve on that. 

 

How about Sutter for RNH and Fayne and their 2018 1st? 

 

 

Sutter and 2018 1rst round pick for RNH, Fayne and Jesse Puljujarvi.

Or

Sign Horvat to 5 year @ 6 mil then trade Horvat and 2019 1rst & 2018 2nd for Draisaitl, Fayne and JP

[JM_]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Sutter and 2018 1rst round pick for RNH, Fayne and Jesse Puljujarvi.

Or

Sign Horvat to 5 year @ 6 mil then trade Horvat and 2019 1rst & 2018 2nd for Draisaitl, Fayne and JP

nah, I want to fleece Edmonton 

[TheGuardian_]

14 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

nah, I want to fleece Edmonton 

Just thinking about how to speed up rebuild within cap restraints. Of course the other fantasy deal is to try to sign Taveras around 10/11 mil/season.

I know I have a "thing" for Jesse Puljujarvi, I really think he is close to Laine.

 

The other thing is "why" is this rebuild limited to just draft picks? It will take more time than necessary, 2022 and then the Nucks could be in cap h3ll over paying Canuck star players that are not NHL star players. It took close to 15+ years for some teams that did it the old way and they still haven't been a successful as the Canucks in at least playing for the cup.

 

There isn't one team in the league that has won/played for the cup soley on draft picks.

 

Just because they say they will rebuild shouldn't mean a suspension of trades. Notable quality trades. 

[stuman491]

19 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Just proposed this in a McDavid thread that was locked. Drai & McD prob will cost the Coilers 22, 23 millish AAV-ludicrous!

 

They'll NEED cap space. So how's this?..

 

To Edm: Sutter & Granny(about 5.3 mill AAV combined)

To Van: RNH & Pouliot(dead weight contract, only 2 more yrs) 10,000,000 AAV combined

 

BIG cap-help for Edm. We turn part of Kesler-return(& Shinkaruk) into a 24 yo, local kid, & former 1st OA pick!

I'd rather just see Sutter with Salary retained if we are allowed to.  Bring back Pouliot and they send us a draft pick and Drake Caggiula.  You is a young player with offensive upside.  I think Sutter probably has more value than him, Poulliot has negetive value.  So we might be able to scoop up a couple picks.  2nd and a 4th next year.  

[qwijibo]

1 hour ago, stuman491 said:

I'd rather just see Sutter with Salary retained if we are allowed to.  Bring back Pouliot and they send us a draft pick and Drake Caggiula.  You is a young player with offensive upside.  I think Sutter probably has more value than him, Poulliot has negetive value.  So we might be able to scoop up a couple picks.  2nd and a 4th next year.  

Pouliot is being bought out. They're not going to spend any assets beyond a bit of cap space to get rid of him. 

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yet Nuge was wedged behind two obvious stars, wasn't he? Being a top pick, we'd have to think his ceiling is much higher.

 

Could see RNH as a 30g/70 pts guy, with the right linemates. Local kid, who's age fits in really well here(24).

 

& most everyone agrees Sutter's contract is pretty meh. But he returns home too. Edm could really use him nicely, in that 3C slot.

 Next yr, Granny will be due for substantially more than 900k.

 

I really like how this could upgrade 2 of our previous transactions.

He would become our best center off the hop, he's been used as a two way shut down guy in EDM ...a little nervous about his injury history but we would have our middle solved at least for now.

[Dixon Ward]

Offer sheet Draisatl.  10 million.  If they don't match, we have draisatl.  If they do, they need to shed salary.  Then go and get RNH for Sutter and Subban.  Then we ask RNH if he can play with Yakupov and if he says yes, we sign him too. Screw Edmonton and Screw Chiarelli.  

 

Baertschi Horvat Boeser

Granlund RNH Yakupov

Sedin Sedin Goldobin

Gaunce Labate Eriksson

 

Dahlen, Boucher, Virtanen, Rodin, Dorsett in the wings.  This would give us 2 #1 OA players in the line up who are under 24.  Yakupov may not amount to much but he might. RNH is already a solid nhl centre and playmaker and could have more upside. 

 

I think that it is imperative that we bring in and audition as many fast skilled players as possible in the next 2 years.  This will provide some real competition for powerplay time and ice time in general.  We can find out which of these guys can play and then when Petersson, Lind, Gadjovich, Dahlen, Virtanen are ready to start we will have some firepower to bring them along.  The Chaputs, Megna's, etc... are just wasting space and achieving nothing next year.

 

[qwijibo]

15 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

Offer sheet Draisatl.  10 million.  If they don't match, we have draisatl.  If they do, they need to shed salary.  Then go and get RNH for Sutter and Subban.  Then we ask RNH if he can play with Yakupov and if he says yes, we sign him too. Screw Edmonton and Screw Chiarelli.  

 

Baertschi Horvat Boeser

Granlund RNH Yakupov

Sedin Sedin Goldobin

Gaunce Labate Eriksson

 

Dahlen, Boucher, Virtanen, Rodin, Dorsett in the wings.  This would give us 2 #1 OA players in the line up who are under 24.  Yakupov may not amount to much but he might. RNH is already a solid nhl centre and playmaker and could have more upside. 

 

I think that it is imperative that we bring in and audition as many fast skilled players as possible in the next 2 years.  This will provide some real competition for powerplay time and ice time in general.  We can find out which of these guys can play and then when Petersson, Lind, Gadjovich, Dahlen, Virtanen are ready to start we will have some firepower to bring them along.  The Chaputs, Megna's, etc... are just wasting space and achieving nothing next year.

 

Let me get this straight, you expect Edmonton to make a Vancouver slanted trade with the Canucks AFTER Vancouver has screwed them over via offer sheet.  Is that what you're saying??

[Dixon Ward]

3 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Let me get this straight, you expect Edmonton to make a Vancouver slanted trade with the Canucks AFTER Vancouver has screwed them over via offer sheet.  Is that what you're saying??

I'm just rambling because I can't stand all the Chiarelli love when all he did was fall ass backwards into McDavid.  I'm really not suggesting it would happen or make sense. I would just like to see them strapped by an offer sheet.  I know you are right.

[elvis15]

On 6/28/2017 at 2:50 PM, Aircool said:

The notion that Granlund is more rounded or a better scorer than Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is hilarious... C'mon... RNH has shown to be extremely solid defensively and he's getting third line minutes and low quality wingers to play with, and he is not a goal-centric player like Granlund was last year. Conveniently left out that Granlund only scored 32 points last season.

And you conveniently left out RNH only scored 43 points last year -  11 more points in 13 more games. For their salaries, that's not nearly enough different for us to 'help out' Edmonton by not only taking his contract but also Pouliot's while giving up two players that are contributing in areas we lack just a little bit..

[HockeydownUnder]

On 29/06/2017 at 8:12 PM, Aircool said:

Yeah 5.1 Million now, how much in 2-3 years? That's all I was saying, I think that is your most valid point. You didn't mention that in your original post though, which is another issue I took. You were simply saying Granlund was a more rounded player. This is just factually inaccurate. Is RNH on a downswing though? Or has he just seen a decline in ice time and a reduction in the quality of his linemates, offensive opportunities, and powerplay time?

 

Well I cited to you the players they've both played with. If you think Milan Lucic was doing defensive work, then okay... If you say so. I don't see any norris trophy candidates on the Edmonton backend putting up 60+ pts... His linemates surely weren't either... So while his team was good, the players he played with weren't particularly so good, so I think this is a complete strawman.

Klefbom and Sekera had 38 and 35 points respectively. The highest d man on the canucks in scoring was stretcher with 24...

 

Also the linemates you named for Granlund are far from inspiring. I would take Maroon Kassian and Lucic any day of the week.

 

That being said you are right in terms of defensive responsibilities. RNH is quite good in his own end. Althought his face offs % is far from great, it's good enough to be palatable for him to be a C. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

An RNH-acquisition wouldn't be make-or-break for our future. He would be utilized differently than last yr(not behind 2 prodigies). His jr #'s were pretty tasty(hence the top pick), there's skill alongside a half-decade of pro experience. He seems a responsible, level-headed kid, who's from the area.

 

4 yrs left, at 24 today. 6 mill/per

 

IF he excels over that period, him & Bo will provide nice C-support for many young wings. With Hank exiting, our C remains competitive, albeit rather young.

If he's uneven in results, in the last yr you could eat half of that cap hit at TDL, & reload with a nice pick. Then Petterson would be 22(presumably filled-out), & represents a very nice plan-B.

 

Compare Sutter with the above^

28 today, at 4.375 cap hit(like RNH, 4 yrs left)

Doesn't really get his wingers involved(poor for chemistry). A righty good on draws, who can skate. Such assets are probably more valuable to Edm., at this time. He too, would be close to familiar stomping grounds(Viking, Ab)

 

Agree with @S'all Good Man above..we might entertain the last yr of Mark Fayne's contract, to nab this skilled young C. The peripheral-pieces are all variables to be haggled over.

[Aircool]

2 hours ago, HockeydownUnder said:

Klefbom and Sekera had 38 and 35 points respectively. The highest d man on the canucks in scoring was stretcher with 24...

 

Also the linemates you named for Granlund are far from inspiring. I would take Maroon Kassian and Lucic any day of the week.

 

That being said you are right in terms of defensive responsibilities. RNH is quite good in his own end. Althought his face offs % is far from great, it's good enough to be palatable for him to be a C. 

Yeah I'll concede that their backend is better offensively, just not a juggernaut. They are a team driven by forwards, and RNH is down the depth chart for quality of opportunity and teammates. He was acting like RNH played on a line with Draisaitl and McDavid.

 

I don't really agree with you on your opinion of RNH's linemates. I'd take the Sedins over any of them. But okay, this is a simple thing we disagree on.

 

Yeah his defense is good, and his faceoffs are iffy for sure. But we agree. Good enough to stay at Center, unlike Granlund has shown.

 

Definitely not making the RNH is a superstar argument, just an extremely versatile productive player. Which to be fair I think you get that.

 

 

[canuckmen84]

RNH had 43 pts people not 70...while playing on a high offence oiler team at that, he also barley had 4pts in the playoffs......terrible, even for a softy like the nuget.

 

He is not the solution nor is he a fit on our team especially for 6 mil a year ! 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

On ‎2017‎年‎6‎月‎29‎日 at 6:27 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

Just proposed this in a McDavid thread that was locked. Drai & McD prob will cost the Coilers 22, 23 millish AAV-ludicrous!

 

They'll NEED cap space. So how's this?..

 

To Edm: Sutter & Granny(about 5.3 mill AAV combined)

To Van: RNH & Pouliot(dead weight contract, only 2 more yrs) 10,000,000 AAV combined

 

BIG cap-help for Edm. We turn part of Kesler-return(& Shinkaruk) into a 24 yo, local kid, & former 1st OA pick!

Bumping this to illustrate how stoopid Chia-pet is.

THIS is the sort of deal he should have entertained last summer! Now he's staring down 21 mill(2 players) & all GM's will throw him anchors for RNH, cos' he's cap-hooped.

PLUS, he squandered Ebs on Strome the gnome.

PLUS he pi$$ed 1.3 mill AAV down the loo(next 3 seasons) from buying out Pouliot.

 

So it's like McD & Drai for 22 Freeken. 3 mill, x forever.

 

How can these bloody GM schmoes justify their compensation, when a casual poster tells them what they should do(vindicated in mere months!)?!  So many of these guys are absolutely lame & overpaid, making amateur decisions, that are so bloody predictable.

 

@Jimmy McGill You had a nice proposal goin back on page 2, as well. Chia shoulda' listened to us!

[HockeydownUnder]

4 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Bumping this to illustrate how stoopid Chia-pet is.

THIS is the sort of deal he should have entertained last summer! Now he's staring down 21 mill(2 players) & all GM's will throw him anchors for RNH, cos' he's cap-hooped.

PLUS, he squandered Ebs on Strome the gnome.

PLUS he pi$$ed 1.3 mill AAV down the loo(next 3 seasons) from buying out Pouliot.

 

So it's like McD & Drai for 22 Freeken. 3 mill, x forever.

 

How can these bloody GM schmoes justify their compensation, when a casual poster tells them what they should do(vindicated in mere months!)?!  So many of these guys are absolutely lame & overpaid, making amateur decisions, that are so bloody predictable.

 

@Jimmy McGill You had a nice proposal goin back on page 2, as well. Chia shoulda' listened to us!

Umm...what?

You are criticizing Chai for being a terrible gm. Then you suggest he should have taken Jimmy McGills proposal?

Jimmy offered Sutter for RNH, Fayne, And Edmontons 2018 first.

 

RNH is having a pretty good season. 29 points in 40 games with a faceoff percentage up to 50% from 43% last year. That worked out to 60 points averaged out over a season. RNH is showing he is worth what he is being paid.

 

Sutter hasn't been healthy and has a measly 6 points in 23 games. Defensively he's been good but RNH > Sutter easy.

In hindsight that is an absolutely terrible deal for Edmonton