DeNiro Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Even WD stated himself, baertschi is in the NHL because canucks got into injury issues and got a chance to showcase himself. As did lots of players in the NHL. I don't know what that has to do with him making the NHL or not. He was always in their plans, he just got his chance sooner than expected. This idea that Higgins almost cost us Baertschi has no truth to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 minute ago, oldnews said: don't dwell on that inferiority complex mindset. He played with Hartnell and Sedlak in Columbus. Yeah, we have that much talent around here. He scored 33 even strength points last year - you're talking as though they were all spoon fed to him by the superior talent of his line and team-mates. That's not necessarily the case. Um that's exactly the case. https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/blue-jackets-put-sam-gagner-position-succeed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: He's far more of a playmaker than a trigger man, His shot isn't elite, but his vision is. Can't remember a Canuck scoring 4 goals in a game since Naslund. Gagner has elite hockey IQ, which means he knows how to find open ice. That's all the Sedins need out of their linemates to have success. I would imagine we'll see quite a few tap ins from those 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Just now, DeNiro said: Can't remember a Canuck scoring 4 goals in a game since Naslund. Gagner has elite hockey IQ, which means he knows how to find open ice. That's all the Sedins need out oftheir linemates to have success. I would imagine will see quite a few tap ins from those 3. Daniel sedin put up for goals against the wings a few years ago. Sedin need a trigger man, a finisher, not another playmaker. Why do you think our PP succeed with Vbrata on the far wall..... Vbrata, Carter, King, Bertuzzi, burrows, Klatt. these are the players that Sedins have had success with..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Um that's exactly the case. https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/blue-jackets-put-sam-gagner-position-succeed/ lol. you didn't read that article, did you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, oldnews said: lol. you didn't read that article, did you. Yeah, did you? Matched up against the easy competition, High usage on the PP. I'm not sure how you could understand that any differently other than being spoon fed.. "Sam Gagner is a unique player, with a limited skill set and a history of defensive issues. The Columbus Blue Jackets still recognized that they could benefit by having him on their roster, and they signed him to a great value contract. His usage has allowed him to flourished, and though he certainly deserves some credit for the excellent season he’s having, credit must also go to John Tortorella and the rest of the coaching staff; they’ve put Gagner in the perfect position to succeed." I'm glad the canucks are able to spoon feed him the same type of opportunity...Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Daniel sedin put up for goals against the wings a few years ago. Sedin need a trigger man, a finisher, not another playmaker. Why do you think our PP succeed with Vbrata on the far wall..... Vbrata, Carter, King, Bertuzzi, burrows, Klatt. these are the players that Sedins have had success with..... Why do you think Burrows had success with the Sedins? He didn't have some wicked shot, he knew how to find open ice, one of Gagners strengths. Vrbata was good there for one season until he couldn't hit the net anymore. That powerplay was a one trick pony. This year's powerplay will actually feature three elite passers and an actual point shot. It should be much more dangerous than the obvious Vrbata one timer, or the Edler shooting wide play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yeah, did you? Matched up against the easy competition, High usage on the PP. I'm not sure how you could understand that any differently other than being spoon fed.. "Sam Gagner is a unique player, with a limited skill set and a history of defensive issues. The Columbus Blue Jackets still recognized that they could benefit by having him on their roster, and they signed him to a great value contract. His usage has allowed him to flourished, and though he certainly deserves some credit for the excellent season he’s having, credit must also go to John Tortorella and the rest of the coaching staff; they’ve put Gagner in the perfect position to succeed." I'm glad the canucks are able to spoon feed him the same type of opportunity...Oh wait... duh - bottom six minutes with Hartnell and Sedlak is 'spoon fed'? all that article points out is that they avoided the kind of defensive duties and matchups he had in Philly. And yes the Canucks can provide easy minutes - that's what having Sutter and Horvat afford you. otherwise, cool story. you claimed we don't have talent for him to play with. I pointed out that he didn't lack talented linemates in Philly, it was the role he was playing. You come back with an article that made exactly that point - that's good - it would appear you got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Just now, DeNiro said: Why do you think Burrows had success with the Sedins? He didn't have some wicked shot, he knew how to find open ice, one of Gagners strengths. Vrbata was good there for one season until he couldn't hit the net anymore. That powerplay was a one trick pony. This year's powerplay will actually feature three elite passers and an actual point shot. It should be much more dangerous than the obvious Vrbata one timer, or the Edler shooting wide play. Burrows succeeded because he an extremely hard worker that go into the tough spots, not gagner's strength. A point shot? who Edler? Stecher? This teams PP needs a pmd, more than they needed another gagner, it's like people forget what was wrong with the PP unit. 2 full minutes of passing with no shot..... Hopefully Brock should be able to become that trigger man on the half wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: duh - bottom six minutes with Hartnell and Sedlak is 'spoon fed'? all that article points out is that they avoided the kind of defensive duties and matchups he had in Philly. And yes the Canucks can provide easy minutes - that's what having Sutter and Horvat afford you. otherwise, cool story. Hartnell is a 50 point player..... last year he would have been 4th on our team in points. I don't know why you keep acting like he's a low quality player. Either way you'll never admit you were wrong so it's pointless discussing with you. but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that gagner was the most sheltered player on the CBJ team last year. But you tell you're self what ever you want..... I'd stay Gagner doesn't crack 40 points next year. You keep believe he's going to and next year we can discuss.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Hartnell is a 50 point player..... last year he would have been 4th on our team in points. I don't know why you keep acting like he's a low quality player. Either way you'll never admit you were wrong so it's pointless discussing with you. but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that gagner was the most sheltered player on the CBJ team last year. But you tell you're self what ever you want..... I'd stay Gagner doesn't crack 40 points next year. You keep believe he's going to and next year we can discuss.. derp. as usual, you don't know what you're talking about. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201617&sit=5v5&pos=skaters&minutes=50&teamid=8&type=corsi&sort=OZPCT&sortdir=DESC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: That quote of his is probably the key reason why the Flamers gave up on him - they don't see him as a playmaker, contrary to his own self-assessment. Further, it's pretty clear that his deployment on our lineup by Willie D was less as a playmaker, more as the triggerman. That's only because we didn't have a trigger man, WD forced the actually trigger man off the roster.. WD was a terrible coach his usage with players probably isn't the best example of a players skillset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 24 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Daniel sedin put up for goals against the wings a few years ago. Sedin need a trigger man, a finisher, not another playmaker. Why do you think our PP succeed with Vbrata on the far wall..... Vbrata, Carter, King, Bertuzzi, burrows, Klatt. these are the players that Sedins have had success with..... that was over 13 years ago for what it's worth, 3 and a half months after naslund did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Just now, oldnews said: derp. as usual, you don't know what you're talking about. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201617&sit=5v5&pos=skaters&minutes=50&teamid=8&type=corsi&sort=OZPCT&sortdir=DESC Derp. haha please try to explain how corsi means anything about his usage? And i'll watch you contradict yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 51 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: I'd hardly call Baertschi a playmaker. If anything, he's supposed to be a trigger-man on whichever line he's assigned to, including the PP. Not for Green. He labels Baer a playmaker and actually credits him for the emergence of Rattie as a goal scorer. In Utica too - he corrected their play-by-play when he called Baer a goal scorer. He deployed him differently though so it's going to be interesting next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 "The 27-year-old has been the trigger man for Columbus this year, ranking sixth in the NHL in shots per 60 minutes of power play time. Looking at his shot chart, we can see that he’s getting these shots in high danger areas of the ice; the end result has been 11 power play points in just 28 games. Columbus’ power play has benefited immensely from Gagner’s presence, as the team currently leads the NHL in power play percentage." From the article being quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claiborne55 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 2 hours ago, oldnews said: duh - bottom six minutes with Hartnell and Sedlak is 'spoon fed'? all that article points out is that they avoided the kind of defensive duties and matchups he had in Philly. And yes the Canucks can provide easy minutes - that's what having Sutter and Horvat afford you. otherwise, cool story. you claimed we don't have talent for him to play with. I pointed out that he didn't lack talented linemates in Philly, it was the role he was playing. You come back with an article that made exactly that point - that's good - it would appear you got it. haha...Canucks can provide easy minutes... that's the attitude that put us in second to last place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Again it's not cap. it's pure roster spot. in 3 years..Goldy, Virtanen, Boeser, Dahlen, Baertschi, Granlund, Pettersson, are locks, Include guys like Burmistrov, Rodin, Lind, gadjovich, Gaudett, Lockwood, and guess what he's a wasted spot. It is the end of the world, now it just means there's a good chance have a player playing in the AHL, or sitting in the pressbox, bought out, or even dumped along the away. So we move him with but one year remaining. Nobody in their right mind "dumps" or buries a good and NHL-ready prospect simply because a 30-year-old making $3mil has a year left on their contract. Heaven forbid we actually have quality depth to select from, providing competition and a challenge to the prospects to up their game, forcing them to unseat veterans from their roster spots rather than gifting them. And far FAR better than not having enough, then calling up Megna and Chaput to play the entire season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Derp. haha please try to explain how corsi means anything about his usage? And i'll watch you contradict yourself. Derp - that chart, if you actually read it, is the chart that is adjusted for zone starts Your claim that Gagner was the most sheltered player on the Bluejackets is utterly absurd. What's patently obvious is that you don't really know what 'sheltering' means or how to qualify that claim.. "Sheltering" has two fundamental aspects. The easiest to understand / most objective aspect is zone starts - Gagner was 7th on the CBJ in ozone starts, and 9 other players had lower defensive zone starts than he did. The other element - quality of competition and teammates - Gagner's team mate corsi/60 for was the second lowest on the Bluejackets, teammate corsi against was 11th - teammate goals for/60 was 15th, teammate goals against was 11th. TMCF% Gagner was 20th. Opposition corsi for there were 5 players with lower OPCF%. Teammate GoalFor% he was 14th, opposition goal for%, again 5 players with lower OPGF%. There is literally not a single metric that would indicate that Gagner is the "most sheltered player on Columbus" - an utter fail of a claim. What Columbus actually did - was take a page out of Mike Sullivan's Penguins playbook and utilize a 3rd line that would cause matchup problems for their opponents. - which Gagner, Hartnell and Sedlak did - distinctly different from his role in Philadelphia where he was a winger for their primary shutdown center and his production understandably dipped under the circumstances. What you attributed to his play in Philly was a failure to look at the actual context of his deployment - which is what my original post pointed out - that his corsi, shooting percentage and under 50% ozone starts didn't actually indicate poor play so much as a role that didn't really play to his strengths / suit him nor was it conducive to production - not all that unlike the usage of Del Zotto in Philly. The CBJ utilized Gagner more to his strengths - however to equate that him being the most sheltered Bluejacket is laughable, with nothing to qualify it. In any event, I don't expect you to bother to inform yourself what the actual objective criteria of 'sheltering' are - you clearly have no idea - but there it is if informing yourself is of any value to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 On 2017-07-01 at 9:52 AM, CanadianRugby said: Miss Gillman when I look at some of our newer contracts. I missed it what did he say? On 2017-07-01 at 9:57 AM, JoesRooster said: To really summarize he thinks the Canucks brass has made all the right moves so far. oh snap. not quite what CanadianRugby was expecting lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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