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[Signing] Canucks sign F Sam Gagner [3 year x $3.15M AAV]


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17 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Burrows succeeded because he an extremely hard worker that go into the tough spots, not gagner's strength.

 

A point shot?  who Edler? Stecher? This teams PP needs a pmd, more than they needed another gagner, it's like people forget what was wrong with the PP unit. 2 full minutes of passing with no shot.....  Hopefully Brock should be able to become that trigger man on the half wall.  

Forsberg, you are right on with your posts, structure dictates behaviour. Sedins set up to make the "pretty" play on the PP resulting in no shots. Successful PPs setup for the shot, tip ,screen and rebound (out man them around the puck for the rebound). If there are no shots, then there are no tip, screen and rebound.

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13 hours ago, oldnews said:

Derp - that chart, if you actually read it, is the chart that is adjusted for zone starts

 

Your claim that Gagner was the most sheltered player on the Bluejackets is utterly absurd.  What's patently obvious is that you don't really know what 'sheltering' means or how to qualify that claim..

 

"Sheltering" has two fundamental aspects.

 

The easiest to understand / most objective aspect is zone starts - Gagner was 7th on the CBJ in ozone starts, and 9 other players had lower defensive zone starts than he did.

 

The other element - quality of competition and teammates - Gagner's team mate corsi/60 for was the second lowest on the Bluejackets, teammate corsi against was 11th - teammate goals for/60 was 15th, teammate goals against was 11thTMCF% Gagner was 20th.  Opposition corsi for there were 5 players with lower OPCF%.

Teammate GoalFor% he was 14th, opposition goal for%, again 5 players with lower OPGF%.

 

There is literally not a single metric that would indicate that Gagner is the "most sheltered player on Columbus" - an utter fail of a claim.

 

What Columbus actually did - was take a page out of Mike Sullivan's Penguins playbook and utilize a 3rd line that would cause matchup problems for their opponents. - which Gagner, Hartnell and Sedlak did - distinctly different from his role in Philadelphia where he was a winger for their primary shutdown center and his production understandably dipped under the circumstances.  What you attributed to his play in Philly was a failure to look at the actual context of his deployment - which is what my original post pointed out - that his corsi, shooting percentage and under 50% ozone starts didn't actually indicate poor play so much as a role that didn't really play to his strengths / suit him nor was it conducive to production - not all that unlike the usage of Del Zotto in Philly.  The CBJ utilized Gagner more to his strengths - however to equate that him being the most sheltered Bluejacket is laughable, with nothing to qualify it.

 

In any event, I don't expect you to bother to inform yourself what the actual objective criteria of 'sheltering' are - you clearly have no idea - but there it is if informing yourself is of any value to you.

It is interesting how you pump Gagner's tires (avg 47 pt player), but with the next breathe, you discount Tkachuk 51 pts in his rookie season as "meh"...he drove play with no sheltered minutes.

The homerism is nauseating.

 

You believe you are right all the time. JB does make mistakes...you know that, right?

 

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18 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Again it's not cap. it's pure roster spot.  in 3 years..Goldy, Virtanen, Boeser, Dahlen, Baertschi, Granlund, Pettersson, are locks, Include guys like Burmistrov, Rodin, Lind, gadjovich, Gaudett, Lockwood, and guess what he's a wasted spot.

Hate to break it to you but some of those guys will likely be gone in the next 3 years. The vast majority also don't play C. The one guy we want playing in that offensive, play making C role is Petterson, who is likely.... wait for it... 

 

.. about 3 years away.

 

IMO, Baer will likely be traded this TDL. Burnistrov and Rodin are only on a 1 year contracts (and might also get moved). From there, we'll see how the rest shake out and develop but at some point, there's a good chance some of them are moved too.

 

And worst case scenario, we have kids ready to take that spot... you trade Gagner for additional picks/prospects. Oh the horror!

 

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18 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Hate to break it to you but some of those guys will likely be gone in the next 3 years. The vast majority also don't play C. The one guy we want playing in that offensive, play making C role is Petterson, who is likely.... wait for it... 

 

.. about 3 years away.

I'm glad you got that out of your crystal ball.  Players progressing faster never happens before right?

 

Put it this way, only 6 players taken in the top 10 between 2010-15 weren't playing in the NHL full time by draft+3 years (that's 90%).  I'd put money on Pettersson being on the roster before the sedins retire. 

 

18 minutes ago, J.R. said:

IMO, Baer will likely be traded this TDL. Burnistrov and Rodin are only on a 1 year contracts (and might also get moved). From there, we'll see how the rest shake out and develop but at some point, there's a good chance some of them are moved too.

 

And worst case scenario, we have kids ready to take that spot... you trade Gagner for additional picks/prospects. Oh the horror!

Exactly why i said not the end of the world.  Just said would have 2 year would have been ideal and people lost their minds. 

 

Problem is people on here are of the belief that every single move JB makes works out perfectly/exactly as planned and will defend everything to the death. 

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A point shot?  who Edler? Stecher? This teams PP needs a pmd, more than they needed another gagner, it's like people forget what was wrong with the PP unit. 2 full minutes of passing with no shot.....  Hopefully Brock should be able to become that trigger man on the half wall.  

 

As frustrating as the over passing on the PP was, I saw the real problem as taking 30-45 seconds to just get set up on the PP.   {that and well.... Edler}

 

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37 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Hate to break it to you but some of those guys will likely be gone in the next 3 years. The vast majority also don't play C. The one guy we want playing in that offensive, play making C role is Petterson, who is likely.... wait for it... 

 

.. about 3 years away.

 

IMO, Baer will likely be traded this TDL. Burnistrov and Rodin are only on a 1 year contracts (and might also get moved). From there, we'll see how the rest shake out and develop but at some point, there's a good chance some of them are moved too.

 

And worst case scenario, we have kids ready to take that spot... you trade Gagner for additional picks/prospects. Oh the horror!

 

 

As I said earlier, it's just a different way to weaponize cap space.... sign moveable assets then trade later for picks.

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39 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Hate to break it to you but some of those guys will likely be gone in the next 3 years. The vast majority also don't play C. The one guy we want playing in that offensive, play making C role is Petterson, who is likely.... wait for it... 

 

.. about 3 years away.

 

IMO, Baer will likely be traded this TDL. Burnistrov and Rodin are only on a 1 year contracts (and might also get moved). From there, we'll see how the rest shake out and develop but at some point, there's a good chance some of them are moved too.

 

And worst case scenario, we have kids ready to take that spot... you trade Gagner for additional picks/prospects. Oh the horror!

 

Benning seems to be going for the Detroit model.  He was specifically asked after the recent signings re trading at the TDL.  He said that these guys are trying to take the next steps in their careers and if they do well he hopes to sign them to an extension.  Yet you seem to keep on thinking sell high to make room and that goes against the model. 

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1 minute ago, mll said:

Benning seems to be going for the Detroit model.  He was specifically asked after the recent signings re trading at the TDL.  He said that these guys are trying to take the next steps in their careers and if they do well he hopes to sign them to an extension.  Yet you seem to keep on thinking sell high to make room and that goes against the model. 

You sell the asset that someone else is willing to give you a good price for.  Maybe that's a Gagner, but maybe it's someone else JB decides is expendable

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Just now, Jayinblack said:

You sell the asset that someone else is willing to give you a good price for.  Maybe that's a Gagner, but maybe it's someone else JB decides is expendable

That's not the Detroit model then.  

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, mll said:

Benning seems to be going for the Detroit model.  He was specifically asked after the recent signings re trading at the TDL.  He said that these guys are trying to take the next steps in their careers and if they do well he hopes to sign them to an extension.  Yet you seem to keep on thinking sell high to make room and that goes against the model. 

He also said when kids force their way on to roster, you move players. He also spoke highly of Glass before the draft. 

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Just now, J.R. said:

He also said when kids force their way on to roster, you move players. He also spoke highly of Glass before the draft. 

That's why I think he is applying the Detroit model re the comments about the push from below, the competitiveness etc but you are advocating moving Tanev, Baer etc and that goes against the model (unless they end up being the worst players on the team).  

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On 7/1/2017 at 10:33 AM, combover said:

 

where the fourth line ...nope 

the third line ...nope 

the second line...nope

the top line..nope 

no space in any of the 6d either. 

the box yep ...great looks like willies development plan is alive and well. 

Guys pay there dues do what there asked in the minors in the off season and then this organization rewards vey Larsen Chaput megna sutter and signs more guys that push them further away from a legit shot. 

I don't even mind the del zotto and gagner signings but then Tanev and sutter should be on there way out. 

 

 

 

 

People need to chill about bringing prospects up.  Bringing them in before they are ready eats up their "cheap years" and delays our rebuild.  That is the exact reason why teams like Edmonton, Toronto, buffalo, Columbus all sat at the bottom of the league for 10+years while drafting so high.  Teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh bring their prospects up when they are ready.... early to mid-20's.  

 

Now I get their is a big difference between champs and basement dwellers but if we want to bring a highly competitive and contending team we need these stop gap players at good contracts until a prospect BEATS them out of a spot and the asset can be traded away.  

 

I hope we continue drafting this way until we finally make a lotto pick.... and then from that point on build around that pick.  Leave our prospects down until they take their own spot.

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2 minutes ago, mll said:

That's why I think he is applying the Detroit model re the comments about the push from below, the competitiveness etc but you are advocating moving Tanev, Baer etc and that goes against the model (unless they end up being the worst players on the team).  

I want to move Tanev (Edler too eventually, maybe Hutton if they don't see him as a long term fit). Doesn't mean that's what management wants to do or that it's going to happen right now. Maybe they do if OJ etc all come in earning jobs? Gets awful crowded if MDZ, OJ, Wiercioch, McEneny etc all start earning spots.

 

Baer I think gets moved at the TDL if I'm guessing. I think some mix of Granlund, Boeser, Gagner, Goldobin and Dahlen can/will replace his offensive contributions and rather than give him a raise this summer, they might like to add some size/snarl to complement those skill guys and give that money to a guy like Kane.

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2 hours ago, Pete M said:

It is interesting how you pump Gagner's tires (avg 47 pt player), but with the next breathe, you discount Tkachuk 51 pts in his rookie season as "meh"...he drove play with no sheltered minutes.

The homerism is nauseating

Well done - two for one misrepresentations.  Your one liner gig is nauseating.

 

First - you clearly haven't read what I've posted about Gagner and haven't got a clue what the point was.  Gagner is not my favorite signing - wouldn't have been my choice - but if people are going to rip this signing they need to get real.  The 'career year' comments - as if last year was an aberation - are oblivious to the fact  that he's scored 47 pts / 82 over his entire career.  Nothing to do with 'tire pumping' - simple fact.  Did I say 'ermagerd, 47 pts is incredible!'  No - I'm not pumping his tires - I'm pointing out the facts.  He also wasn't "the most sheltered player in Columbus" - that's an absurd embellishment that doesn't stand up to any evidence - and wadr is already a dead horse.

 

As for the Tkachuk "drove play" claim - I suppose Mikael Backlund and Frolik were the passengers?   Would be interested to hear you explain that claim.  You clearly didn't get my point regarding Tkachuk either.

 .

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6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Well gagner isn't a top 6 C so his roster spot will be in direct comp with Pettersson. g

If Hank's gone, he just might be in ours next year.

 

In 2-3 years, maybe there's competition for that spot. In that case one moves to wing. Or you run with two 'offensive' lines as we appear to plan to this year or you trade Gagner to solve any 'problem'.  

 

 

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