NHL'er Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I recently read a piece on the Hockey Writers page that I really disagreed with (and genuinely struck me as wrong) so I wrote up a short essay reply. Unfortunately the Hockey Writer editors, as much as they appreciated my argument, don't normally allow for guest posts so I thought I would post it here instead. If you know of somewhere I can post this to, do let me know! The first part is the original article, the second one is my reply. Quote Home >> Commentary >> Jaromir Jagr & Ageism in the NHL Jaromir Jagr & Ageism in the NHL AUGUST 14TH, 2017 CAM HASBROUCK 84 SHARES ShareTweetLinkedin The following essay was submitted to The Hockey Writers by Calvin White in response to our earlier piece, “Why the Blues Should Sign Jaromir Jagr,” written by our own James Gaughan. While non-sports fans will not care, nor even know about, NHL legend Jaromir Jagr’s so-far-failing quest to play another NHL season in which he will turn 46 years old, and sports fans will have a restricted view that it is a “hockey” stalemate, perhaps there is a deeper societal issue at play. Currently, we are all hyper-alerted to how racism, sexism, and identity discrimination emerges, and the raucous denunciations are quick to result. Maybe with Jagr’s plight, we are watching a clear example of ageism. And perhaps, a bit of ethnocentric discrimination. Jaromir Jagr is deserving of an NHL contract, so what is holding him back? (Sergei Belski-USA TODAY Sports) Jaromir Jagr’s Worth Jagr is, and has been, a phenomenon. He continuously garners terms like legendary, ageless wonder, incredible, and exemplary. No one disputes his level of physical fitness and his attitude to game preparation. With the second highest number of career points in NHL history, he is acknowledged as a certain first ballot Hall of Famer. This past season he scored 16 goals and played all 82 games while having to play with a variety of line-mates due to injuries to his normal ones. The previous season he scored 27 goals in 79 games. The past two seasons his plus/minus is positive, which means he has been on the ice for more goals for his team than against. Stats show his puck possession is strong, and all commentators mention how difficult it is to get the puck from him due to his lower body strength and his experience. He seldom misses games from injury. This past season, he made sports highlight reels with a “wow” play in which he stole the puck behind the net from 25-year-old defenceman, Josh Manson, of the Anaheim Ducks and in several nifty moves scored an unassisted goal. So, obviously, the stellar Jagr can still play at an elite level. In addition, all reports say that teammates like him, that he shares knowledge abundantly, that his attitude in the locker room is great and that he inspires. So, too does he draw fans. Ageism Hurting Jagr Yet, as the off-season moves closer to training camps, no teams are making offers to sign him? Lesser players, by anyone’s assessment, are being signed and at rewarding salaries and contract term lengths, while Jagr is not getting a sniff. Something is amiss! And it’s the age factor. Not age as in can’t do it hurts the team, but in age as age. Simply put, it bothers NHL coaches and management that someone so old can compete so well in a “young man’s” game that is riding on the impending glories of young superstars, Connor McDavid -20 years old and Auston Matthews – 19 years old. It’s bad for the brand, so to speak. This last season, for instance, a reporter asked Jagr if he would have a 45-year-old playing on the number one line of the Kladno team that he owns in the Czech premier league. Such a disrespectful question clearly embarrassed him, and he replied that coaches make line decisions. The question was ageist because it directly implied there was something wrong with a 45-year-old being in such prominence. Imagine if the reporter had asked a black or gay player the same question. Presumptions about the effect of Jagr’s age may be preventing him from inking an NHL deal.(Photo: Robert Mayer-USA TODAY Sports) As well, many in the coaching and management circles are former players. It is not a stretch to wonder if it galls them that Jagr can keep playing at such a high level and that he wants to keep playing rather than “bowing out gracefully” which they all were forced to do because of diminishing skills or desire. In other words, somewhere in their psyche do they feel he makes them look less than? Plus, Jagr is a Czech. He’s not a good old Canadian boy or an American cousin, but a “foreigner”, a Euro. And according to on-air comments by TSN analyst and former goalie, Jamie McLennan who once played with Jagr, he’s a fantastic player but a “strange sort of dude”. How does all of that sit with the North American old boy’s network? Jagr Deserving of a Spot Now the one seemingly reasonable explanation offered for the reluctance to sign a player capable of putting up 20 goals and adding to team chemistry and leadership is that Jagr is too slow. Throughout the past season, this was never brought up, but each of his record breaking feats were and the fan adulation was. Every team has a mix of faster and slower players. The too slow argument would only hold ice if other teams had no skaters of Jagr’s speed on their top two lines. Jagr’s chances of signing with an NHL club are diminshing with every passing day. (Andy Marlin-USA TODAY Sports) Similarly, the refrain that “we’re going younger” sounds good at first glance but falls apart when reality shows that every team wants players who can score 20 goals and not have a negative plus/minus. Everyone also knows that youth does not guarantee year after year performance. No one disagrees that Jagr’s pedigree and track record indicate that a 20 goal level in the coming season is a fairly good bet especially with consistent line mates. A team may still come to its senses and snap up the legend, but right now the only conclusion to be drawn is that there is a distinct prejudice against age. -Calvin White http://thehockeywriters.com/jaromir-jagr-nhl-ageism/ Quote Jaromir Jagr & Ageism - A Retort Calvin White has boldly argued that NHL legend Jaromir Jagr’s failure to secure a contract with a NHL team next season is a “clear example of ageism” mixed in perhaps with a “bit of ethnocentric discrimination”.1 Undoubtedly racism, sexism and, indeed ageism is prevalent, and as a society we should take a hard stance against such discrimination, but in Jagr’s case we should examine the reality of the situation and call a spade a spade before jumping to conclusions premised on easy but deceitful notions such as ageism. This article critiques the arguments put forth and instead puts forward other possible explanation as to why Jagr is still an unrestricted free agent. White’s Argument White’s premise is that it is not a stretch to that it “galls” many in catching and management that Jagr can keep playing at such a high level and offends their psyche. He goes on to argue that he isn’t a good old Canadian boy or an American cousin. Let’s pause right here. The NHL is a professional sports league where competing, winning and winning on a continuous basis year after year is what every NHL manager strives for. To insinuate that those in coaching and management circles are so petty to actively thwart Jagr, if he can indeed still help their team this upcoming season (and in the future seasons) sounds absurd on its face. White then argues that Jagr is a Czech and “a strange sort of dude” (quoting Jamie Mclennan) and that this sits unwell with the “North American old boy’s network”. This of course, is completely conjecture. Given, there is very well an old boy’s network, but that they are out to get him or is the reason why he has yet to land a contract is absurd. It is more plausible that his personality is negatively impacting his opportunity to land with a team, but it is a dangerous path to trod to compute personality with him being Czech. There is no doubt that Jagr had (and still has) a burning desire to win. Former NHL player Robert Lang has commented “He was not fun to be around if the game didn’t go well” whilst current Hurricanes General Manager and former teammate Ron Francis remarked: “Some guys—guys with Jaromir’s talent—they’re going to get a little more leeway and no one on the team resents that. The fact is Jaromir could do some things that the rest of us couldn’t.”2 Rick Kehoe remarked: “I think everybody—on our team, anyway—just kind of stopped and let him do his thing. That’s what it looked like, because everybody kind of got out of the way and it was just Jags and the Chicago players.”3 Scott Hartnell, currently with the Predators, recalls a time when he was having a bad practice and Jagr called him “out in front of a couple of guys, telling me to wake up and practise better, because that’s how we’re gonna play in the game. I was kind of taken aback a little bit. I was thinking, like, ‘Talk to me with a little more respect than that.’ But he opened my eyes. I had to hold myself accountable for every day that I put on my skates.” It is not a bad attitude whatsoever to practice hard and expect the same of your teammates as Jagr does, but certainly it can rub guys who did not take it as well as Hartnell did the wrong way. If anything does not sit well with the so called “North American old boy’s network” that meets annually to discuss Jaromir Jagr, it would have to do with Jagr’s intense personalty and burning desire to win more than the fact that he is 45 years old or is Czech. Lastly, White refers to one single “wow” play which leads White to the conclusion that Jagr “can still play at an elite level”. Whilst Jagr is no liability on the ice, one great goal does not necessarily mean that Jagr can still play at an elite level, and certainly not at the level he used to play at. As we will soon see, 46 points is an impressive level of production, but not one that screams, if you sign me, you’ll have an immediate and notable improvement. Alternative Reasons? No one can deny that Jagr is one of the best to have played the game and will be in the Hall of Fame sooner rather than later. He put up tremendous numbers especially as a 43 (and 44) year old in the 2015-2016 NHL season with the Florida Panthers and whilst his production declined this most recent season, 46 points is still a very respectable number. We now come to a critical juncture with one of two alternatives as to why Jagr is still a free agent: White’s hypothesis that the League is out to get this aging legendary European forward, or alternatively, whilst Jagr possesses the skills to play in the NHL, signing him just doesn’t make sense holistically for most NHL teams. There are there possible reasons why all things considered, teams may be wary of signing Jagr: opportunity costs, demanded role and personality. I qualify these reasons by saying that the latter reason is not backed up by any source, but do offer a more plausible explanation than the ageism and ethnocentric discrimination argument. The first reason and probably the biggest reason why teams are put off by signing Jagr despite his ability to produce 46 points, solid second line number for a below average team*4, is the opportunity cost of that comes with Jagr. Playing time in the NHL is a valuable development tool and some players require such playing time to develop into bona fide stars. As good as Jagr was, and even if he can maintain his current level of play, odds are that he won’t further improve and will likely call it a career within the next five years (but of course I would loved to be proved wrong). On the other hand, a younger player, say aged 25, should have at least 5 years of growth left and then some extra playing time left in his career. This is not a matter of age but rather potential, and the unfortunate fact is that it is intrinsically linked with age, especially in a sport such as ice hockey and the two should not be mistaken for one another. Having noted Jagr’s production from last year, it would seem that he would only be a top six forward for a below average team, and chances are those below average teams are rebuilding and have young players they would like to test out and hope becomes the next big thing. The other more plausible reasons for why Jagr remains unsigned are unverified but are much more plausible than the easy and simple notion of ageism. The reasons are, we don’t know what Jagr’s salary and role demands are. We can assume that he won’t be happy signing for the league minimum and will probably require at least $3 million dollars on a one to two year deal. More importantly, he will likely want a top nine role and power play minutes. These are valuable minutes that have to be afforded to Jagr and that he will not sign unless such demands are met only works against the Czech legend. Jagr surely has the right to make such demands given his illustrious career but the fact is such promises of roles puts teams off. Lastly, on a different note, let’s return to our earlier quotation by Ron Francis, that “guys with Jarmir’s talent” are going to get a little more leeway because he could do things that the rest of his teammates could not. Now that Jagr is no longer putting up 100+ point seasons, does he still get that bit of leeway so that no one the team resents him? Conclusion Jagr is a hockey legend, fan favourite and hall-of-famer. What he has accomplished at the age of 44 and 45 defies human limitations in the modern NHL and it will be a sad day when he decides to hang up his skates for good. But the fact that he is still unsigned has little to do (exclusively) with his age, but is the result of a variety of reasons which we have discussed. To argue that he is unsigned because he is Czech, or because NHL managers and coaches are green-eyed monsters, is simply unsubstantiated and irresponsible. 1 http://thehockeywriters.com/jaromir-jagr-nhl-ageism/2 http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/big-read-the-oral-history-of-jaromir-jagr/ 3 http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/big-read-the-oral-history-of-jaromir-jagr/ 4 Jagr’s 46 points put him at 109th in league scoring amongst forwards, with the top half of the league’s top six forwards finishing 90th or above in scoring) What do you guys think? Cheers, NHL'er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I'd have to say that I generally agree with your side more. For me, a guy like Jagr feels like a bit of a ticking time bomb. Every season, you expect his play to take a massive hit, but it hasn't yet. That said, as he gets older and older, it gets more and more likely that the following season will be the one in which he can't perform at a top level anymore. I personally doubt that it's a matter of age discrimination and more likely a factor of factors related to his age. It's not discrimination to pick the best available players for the job, even if the best players happen to be young. All that said, I really do hope Jagr is signed. I'd love to see him become the second NHL player to hit 2000 points, the second man to surpass Howe's 801 goals, and become the All-Time games leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 hours ago, -AJ- said: I'd have to say that I generally agree with your side more. For me, a guy like Jagr feels like a bit of a ticking time bomb. Every season, you expect his play to take a massive hit, but it hasn't yet. That said, as he gets older and older, it gets more and more likely that the following season will be the one in which he can't perform at a top level anymore. I personally doubt that it's a matter of age discrimination and more likely a factor of factors related to his age. It's not discrimination to pick the best available players for the job, even if the best players happen to be young. All that said, I really do hope Jagr is signed. I'd love to see him become the second NHL player to hit 2000 points, the second man to surpass Howe's 801 goals, and become the All-Time games leader. Sure, he could very well be due for a significant decline in his play and production, but what's stopping somebody from giving a cheap contract (say, $1-2 million) chock full of performance bonuses. It's a win for everybody and Jagr strikes me as the type of competitive/confident guy that will set those goals for himself anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 People has been saying he's too old for the past 10 years.... he still going strong, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiCanucks Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Id sign him to a 2 million deal for 1 year if we hadn't gone out and gotten Gagner and Burmistrov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Sean Monahan said: Sure, he could very well be due for a significant decline in his play and production, but what's stopping somebody from giving a cheap contract (say, $1-2 million) chock full of performance bonuses. It's a win for everybody and Jagr strikes me as the type of competitive/confident guy that will set those goals for himself anyway. OP points out lost development time for younger players as a reason, and it's not a bad theory. I like Jagr now (couldn't stand his and Mario's faking high-stick contact waaay back when), but I can see most teams wanting to move on. He didn't lose significant ice-time, but saw a big drop in stats last year (arguably because of linemate injuries), and a similar drop while taking up a roster spot and 1.5 to 2M would definitely be a liability. I am a little surprised some team doesn't sign him, but perhaps the development issue OP offered is enough of a reason. Teams could still benefit from his leadership and guidance as an assistant coach, if he was willing to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 19 minutes ago, Kragar said: OP points out lost development time for younger players as a reason, and it's not a bad theory. I like Jagr now (couldn't stand his and Mario's faking high-stick contact waaay back when), but I can see most teams wanting to move on. He didn't lose significant ice-time, but saw a big drop in stats last year (arguably because of linemate injuries), and a similar drop while taking up a roster spot and 1.5 to 2M would definitely be a liability. I am a little surprised some team doesn't sign him, but perhaps the development issue OP offered is enough of a reason. Teams could still benefit from his leadership and guidance as an assistant coach, if he was willing to retire. I don't necessarily agree. 46 points on a bad team with (what I believe was) a revolving door of linemates is nothing to scoff at. He's not going to carry a line anymore but he's a great 5-8 forward on a deeper team, based on what we know him to be at least. He very well could drop off. Father Time will catch up with anybody eventually. I don't think a contending team with any modicum of cap space would have too much trouble bringing him on with the type of contract I proposed (1-2 million, performance bonus laden). If he doesn't pan out you can waive him and he either gets claimed or you've now dumped a decent chunk of his cap hit in the minors. Many contending teams don't have a ton in the way of young players that are ready to step into that middle 6 role and put up 40ish points anyway. If you're looking to win now I don't think you're too concerned about that one year of development. of course, it's entirely possible he's not willing to sign with anybody on the type of contract I've proposed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said: I don't necessarily agree. 46 points on a bad team with (what I believe was) a revolving door of linemates is nothing to scoff at. He's not going to carry a line anymore but he's a great 5-8 forward on a deeper team, based on what we know him to be at least. He very well could drop off. Father Time will catch up with anybody eventually. I don't think a contending team with any modicum of cap space would have too much trouble bringing him on with the type of contract I proposed (1-2 million, performance bonus laden). If he doesn't pan out you can waive him and he either gets claimed or you've now dumped a decent chunk of his cap hit in the minors. Many contending teams don't have a ton in the way of young players that are ready to step into that middle 6 role and put up 40ish points anyway. If you're looking to win now I don't think you're too concerned about that one year of development. of course, it's entirely possible he's not willing to sign with anybody on the type of contract I've proposed too. I wasn't scoffing at the 46 points. I was more concerned about it dropping below 30, especially if his goal production has another big drop. If he can maintain a similar level of play, I agree he could help a contending team, where development is less of an issue. And yeah, I don't know anything about what he is asking for. He sure is an interesting character. Was fun having him at the All star game a couple years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skolozsy2 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Depending on how NHL ruling goes on Hossa....I could see the Blackhawks giving him a one year deal. Whether he plays with Toews and Saad or Anisimov and Kane, one would assume his offensive capabilities would be utilized to their fullest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 What if Jagr identifies himself as a 25 year old, does the argument still have validity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 He's getting pretty slow, he's a massive gamble. I don't blame teams for staying away. However I really want him to sign somewhere! Arizona would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 its the mexican supplements that probably have teams scared. how can he be that strong at age 45. he is either a freak of nature or he is taking TRT or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I don't think it's an age thing, I think it's a speed thing. He's not the quickest guy around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Excellent post! Enjoyed reading that. Ageism absolutely plays role in this from a deeper societal standpoint. There's no way it can't. Jagr is defying conventional wisdom when it comes to how people view older players. And he's doing it at a time when the league is getting younger. It's only natural to expect aging players to slow down, decline, become less productive, stale, and eventually become liabilities rather than assets. As they get older, those expectations only intensify. When players continue playing past 35, their careers become ticking clocks in the eyes of others. From a conventional wisdom perspective, "retirement" enters the discussion and there's the societal perception that older players can't produce or be as productive as youth. Look beyond hockey. There's definitely ageism in the entertainment industry. 40 is the kiss of death, especially for writers. There's absolutely ageism in tech and the startup scene. Even in restaurants and staff. Too many older staff alienate youth and vise versa. TV ratings and movies appeal to the 18-34 demo. Ageism is hardwired into society on so many levels. Over the past few years across various industries, we've seen a societal shift away from people with experience. There's an underlying age component within that shift since the people who have the most experience are older. There's just a natural societal perception that older people aren't as productive, slow down, resist change, etc, etc. And I'm not saying there isn't truth to that either. BUT ... The problem with ageism is that it paints aging people with the same brush of perception. It doesn't take into account that people decline or diminish at different rates. I know many highly skilled, creative, productive 40+ who have been forced out of industries simply because of that perception. Jagr's inherent elite skill and talent has extended his career. As his body ages, his talent has kept him more productive than many younger players. So we have a guy like Jagr whose elite talent is declining but not at the rate of what we're accustomed to from a conventional wisdom standpoint with aging players. On some level, we're kinda seeing a situation where people don't know what to do with him. He's obviously still productive and can help a team but it's clearly difficult to reconcile giving a roster spot to a 45 year old player in an age where teams are getting younger. It's an interesting situation. I'm curious to see at what point does ageism force someone out of the league even when they're still productive. I'm not saying ageism is the only factor but it's definitely a real issue within the situation. There's no way it couldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 It seems like Jagr has been feeding on easy points to stay relevant, but overall he's been slowing down his linemates. And when the game speed and effort level gets turned up further, he just can't keep up. Doesn't have a single goal in his last 28 playoff games, going back to 2013. I'm not surprised he hasn't got a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosalie73 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I wish he could end his career in Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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