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Ron Hextall on the state of the Flyers (Canucks related)


tas

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Of course Philly isn't rebuilding.  They still have a very good stable of vets in their mid-prime, a good mixture of young vets and one of the better prospect pool in the league despite very little bottom dwelling.  They have a good team, but I like the message Hextall covers, winning in itself is a culture that's required no matter how the teams doing...sound very familiar.

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IMHO NHL orgs rebuild to win CUPs or to be simply competitive. The approach is often based on the economics of driving revenue. The Flyers have won 2 CUPs and did so off a team that drafted in the lower rounds and drafted well. That scenario does not exist anymore. 

 

I am the classical 'tanker' on this site. I want the Canucks to draft in the top 5 until they have the depth and breath within the org to climb to the next level of compete. They can supplement these drafts by acquiring targeted talent to round out a truly CUP competitive team. Why insisting on top 5 picks when many examples can be given of layers or orgs that have done otherwise? Evaluating talent and gauging player aptitudes can be a hairy proposition. Combine that with meshing these individuals onto a team amps up the uncertainty. This is the #1 reason I am a tanker. It simply reduces the odds of making a mistake. It is not a guarantee but certainly going the other route of trying to rebuild and be competitive is not either. IMHO the odds are even greater of not being successful. 

 

Much of this goes against the tribal nature of fandom and what it means. Patience and a willingness to accept mistakes is not high.   

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"Tanking" is a word GM's won't use, and rebuilding is a word they dislike using.  Hextall won the freaking lottery with Patrick, he can say whatever he wants, he still got a top 2 pick and was able to ice the best team he could and compete.  Unless Philly has 2 bad years of bottom feeding, Hextall won't have to worry about the words "rebuild" or "re-tool".  

Theirs is a comparable situation to ours, but since the draft lottery has been in place, we haven't had any good luck, Philly had a horseshoe in their butt last draft. I aint' even mad, the tide can change at any time.  

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41 minutes ago, Raymond Luxury Yacht said:

"Tanking" is a word GM's won't use, and rebuilding is a word they dislike using.  Hextall won the freaking lottery with Patrick, he can say whatever he wants, he still got a top 2 pick and was able to ice the best team he could and compete.  Unless Philly has 2 bad years of bottom feeding, Hextall won't have to worry about the words "rebuild" or "re-tool".  

Theirs is a comparable situation to ours, but since the draft lottery has been in place, we haven't had any good luck, Philly had a horseshoe in their butt last draft. I aint' even mad, the tide can change at any time.  

the fact that hextall refused to tank and then won the 2nd overall pick is the perfect argument against tanking and for competing. it perfectly underlined the point that with the way the lottery format is now, there's no point in tanking because even finishing dead last there's only a 1 in 5 chance you get to pick the top player. 

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1 hour ago, Raymond Luxury Yacht said:

"Tanking" is a word GM's won't use, and rebuilding is a word they dislike using.  Hextall won the freaking lottery with Patrick, he can say whatever he wants, he still got a top 2 pick and was able to ice the best team he could and compete.  Unless Philly has 2 bad years of bottom feeding, Hextall won't have to worry about the words "rebuild" or "re-tool".  

Theirs is a comparable situation to ours, but since the draft lottery has been in place, we haven't had any good luck, Philly had a horseshoe in their butt last draft. I aint' even mad, the tide can change at any time.  

 

I'll still never get how that became an indication of luck

 

I would think any day where a horseshoe gets jammed up your ass would be a bad one. 

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3 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Hextall has only been GM for 3 years Alf,  Holmgren took a different approach and traded for marquee players like Pronger in 2009

 

To Philly:  Pronger, Daigle

 

To Anaheim:  2009 1st, 2010 1st, cond 3rd, Lupul, Sbisa

If daigle turned out that would have been a great hockey trade.

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15 minutes ago, tas said:

the fact that hextall refused to tank and then won the 2nd overall pick is the perfect argument against tanking and for competing. it perfectly underlined the point that with the way the lottery format is now, there's no point in tanking because even finishing dead last there's only a 1 in 5 chance you get to pick the top player. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL continued to slant the odds further against tankers either. Old time hockey player G.M.'s like Hextall and Benning who seem to embrace out of vogue concepts like honor and justice are slowly being pushed out by stats/odds analysts. The entire first round every year should be an equal odds draft for all teams and then the following rounds can be based on the previous years positions. 

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4 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Flyers don't really need to rebuild now though on paper the team has some really good fire power some good young prospect including a potential top paring d-man and Nolan Patrick. 

 

I think Flyers only need to beef up their d-core and maybe get some better goal tending and they can go deep in the playoffs. 

Their goaltending has been questionable since Hextall was playing.  Like you mentioned Bouchers incredible shutout run withstanding, I bet they miss Parent who at the time they said made more saves then God.   They had a tremendous team right through the seventies and most of the eighties  and it looked like they were destined for glory with Lindros for a few years in the nineties, since that not much of a threat.  If they solve their goaltending, they might yet rise again. 

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1 hour ago, Raymond Luxury Yacht said:

"Tanking" is a word GM's won't use, and rebuilding is a word they dislike using.  Hextall won the freaking lottery with Patrick, he can say whatever he wants, he still got a top 2 pick and was able to ice the best team he could and compete.  Unless Philly has 2 bad years of bottom feeding, Hextall won't have to worry about the words "rebuild" or "re-tool".  

Theirs is a comparable situation to ours, but since the draft lottery has been in place, we haven't had any good luck, Philly had a horseshoe in their butt last draft. I aint' even mad, the tide can change at any time.  

They lost the Kane lottery when they were last, and ended up with only JVR. And that was when the odds were very much in the last place team's favour to get the 1st overall pick. So in a way, this win simply balanced the scales for them.

 

If the tide changes for the Canucks in the 2018 draft, and we end up with Dahlin or Svechnikov, that is far better than winning Hishier or Patrick. That is what I'm hoping for this year.

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1. Patrick, Nolan ~ C 
2. Sanheim, Travis ~ LHD 
3. Lindblom, Oskar ~ LW/RW 
4. Myers, Phil ~ RHD 
5. Rubtsov, German ~ C/W 
6. Morin, Sam ~ LHD 
7. Frost, Morgan ~ C/LW 
8. Allison, Wade ~ RW 
9. Hagg, Robert ~ LHD 
10. Vorobyev, Mikhail ~ C 
11. Ratcliffe, Isaac ~ LW 
12. Laczynski, Tanner ~ C 
13. Friedman, Mark ~ RHD 
14. Laberge, Pascal ~ C/RW 
15. Aube-Kubel, Nicolas

 

That's what the Flyers prospect pool looks like. They also have Provorov and Konecny who just graduated. They are stacked at every single position. They have not only kept their picks, but they have acquired quite a few as well. They don't have to tank because they have drafted quite well and quite often.

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Says the GM sitting on a youth wave of incredible Dmen, etc.

 

Says the GM who will NOT be competing for a lottery pick or selling off vets during that phase of the cycle.

 

Says the GM who has vets who are not as old as the twins on NTCs.

 

 

Rah-Rah-Rah! 

This is the expected posturing of the voice at the top and relates to the Canucks path as much as my skating relates to McDavid's. Canucks related, my ace. 

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5 hours ago, tas said:

the fact that hextall refused to tank and then won the 2nd overall pick is the perfect argument against tanking and for competing. it perfectly underlined the point that with the way the lottery format is now, there's no point in tanking because even finishing dead last there's only a 1 in 5 chance you get to pick the top player. 

one draft pick does not = a CUP. The Patrick pick does not prove much one way or the other. 

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3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Their goaltending has been questionable since Hextall was playing.  Like you mentioned Bouchers incredible shutout run withstanding, I bet they miss Parent who at the time they said made more saves then God.   They had a tremendous team right through the seventies and most of the eighties  and it looked like they were destined for glory with Lindros for a few years in the nineties, since that not much of a threat.  If they solve their goaltending, they might yet rise again. 

One guy you missed mentioning - Vezina winner Pelle Lindbergh who had that tragic car accident.

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1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

One guy you missed mentioning - Vezina winner Pelle Lindbergh who had that tragic car accident.

You bet, they have also had to deal with travesty, like trading Forsberg, Simon, Ricci and half their future for Lindros.  At the time it looked fair, but in reality they got fleeced, Lindros for Forsberg would be fair.  

They turned a team that already had Sakic and Sundin at one point, into an absolute powerhouse, especially when they added Roy later, in comes Richard winner Hedjuk, and eventually, Foote, Blake and Borque (wtf not even fair) and an excellent supporting cast ( Deadmarsh, the guy that won the international little league as a kid) etc. Claude starting a war with the other powerhouse  Detroit treated us to some of the best hockey EVER.  I think seven times they met in the playoffs, mostly in the conference final, edge to COL even though Detroit bought one more cup.

 

Couldn't imagine what it would feel like for Nords fans, finally having an incredibly talented team, and watching them leave city only to win a cup the following year.  If Vancouver moved to say Seattle, and won the cup the following year I don't think I'd ever get over it.  

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3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Says the GM sitting on a youth wave of incredible Dmen, etc.

 

Says the GM who will NOT be competing for a lottery pick or selling off vets during that phase of the cycle.

 

Says the GM who has vets who are not as old as the twins on NTCs.

 

 

Rah-Rah-Rah! 

This is the expected posturing of the voice at the top and relates to the Canucks path as much as my skating relates to McDavid's. Canucks related, my ace. 

What he says about the culture of winning isn't posturing.  Hextall started his career with something like three 100 pim seasons, unheard of as a goalie.  I mention that because he's not some flake, he knows what it takes to win, has experienced teams that have lost that culture and how hard it is to get back. THAT part is very applicable.  When our team was winning in the past, lining up 100 point seasons and re writing our clubs record book, I could feel the culture of winning even as a fan.  100,% attitude, all it takes is a few guys bringing it every day and it starts to rub off, even if the score isn't in our favor.

 

Personally I loved what he said, and am still a fan of Hextall.  What he brings surely trickles down and affects his entire organization.  Love him or hate him, Gillis did the same thing.  He straightend out the administration, and brought the winning culture into the bones of the organization, sure we had the players to win, but he ran a very professional ship and it also rubbed off.

 

Linden and Benning would serve us well to continue to say the word competitive, even if on paper and on the ice we suck.

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4 hours ago, D-Money said:

They lost the Kane lottery when they were last, and ended up with only JVR. And that was when the odds were very much in the last place team's favour to get the 1st overall pick. So in a way, this win simply balanced the scales for them.

 

If the tide changes for the Canucks in the 2018 draft, and we end up with Dahlin or Svechnikov, that is far better than winning Hishier or Patrick. That is what I'm hoping for this year.

Me too, and there is no reason why it can't happen.  I'm not going a jam a horseshoe anywhere to assist with luck, but I will be closing my eyes real tight and using my mind powers. 

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6 hours ago, tas said:

the fact that hextall refused to tank and then won the 2nd overall pick is the perfect argument against tanking and for competing. it perfectly underlined the point that with the way the lottery format is now, there's no point in tanking because even finishing dead last there's only a 1 in 5 chance you get to pick the top player. 

I agree with that.  I won't be surprised to see even more done to stop future tankers.  It doesn't take a huge shift in players and personnel to have an lasting impact.

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