Energy East Cancelled it was a great day for canada

[Violator]

https://www.google.ca/amp/montrealgazette.com/business/energy/transcanada-pulls-plug-on-energy-east-project/amp

 

As kinof surrey would say great time to be a canadian.

[Tre Mac]

Quote

There are so many moments when the deepening wounds for the Energy East pipeline project began to turn fatal.

That's it?  Where is the rest of the article?

 

Oh well, yay I guess?

[Alflives]

Why is this a great day for Canada?  What about the Atlantic Provinces?  They could use the oil and gas, couldn't they?  I guess those Provinces could pump the oil off the Grand Banks and Sable Islands, but wouldn't that threaten the Atlantic Fisheries and Oceans?  Too bad the Governments couldn't get this much needed pipeline built.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Why is this a great day for Canada?  What about the Atlantic Provinces?  They could use the oil and gas, couldn't they?  I guess those Provinces could pump the oil off the Grand Banks and Sable Islands, but wouldn't that threaten the Atlantic Fisheries and Oceans?  Too bad the Governments couldn't get this much needed pipeline built.  

governments can only do so much, oil prices have been and always will be the dominant factor. I checked out some of the more financially-based articles on this and the prime reason is the price forecasts are too low. Alberta oil is just too expensive to make it viable. Brad Wall can huff and puff all he wants but OPEC pulls the strings. 

 

[Violator]

11 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

That's it?  Where is the rest of the article?

 

Oh well, yay I guess?

Im in class will update later.

[Shift-4]

More discussion here

[Rick Blight]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

governments can only do so much, oil prices have been and always will be the dominant factor. I checked out some of the more financially-based articles on this and the prime reason is the price forecasts are too low. Alberta oil is just too expensive to make it viable. Brad Wall can huff and puff all he wants but OPEC pulls the strings. 

 

Sorry Jimmy but I think you are wrong on this one. Oil prices are certainly a factor in both production and transportation of Oil/Gas but pricing is secondary to the costs incurred making submissions for approval and then having the government change their own guidelines in mid-stream of the approval process. Transcanada Pipeline has spent over  a billion dollars trying to get approval only to be told by the National Energy Board has changed their evaluation process. How can any company make business decisions when policy makers constantly change the rules?

OPEC does not have nearly the power today that they used to. The U.S. is now the largest oil producer in the world and they are the ones pulling the strings.

Alf is right when he says that the Maritimes could really benefit from this pipeline but unfortunately people like the mayor of Montreal would rather import oil from Nigeria and Venezuela.

Alberta should suspend any transfer payments to Quebec.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Sorry Jimmy but I think you are wrong on this one. Oil prices are certainly a factor in both production and transportation of Oil/Gas but pricing is secondary to the costs incurred making submissions for approval and then having the government change their own guidelines in mid-stream of the approval process. Transcanada Pipeline has spent over  a billion dollars trying to get approval only to be told by the National Energy Board has changed their evaluation process. How can any company make business decisions when policy makers constantly change the rules?

OPEC does not have nearly the power today that they used to. The U.S. is now the largest oil producer in the world and they are the ones pulling the strings.

Alf is right when he says that the Maritimes could really benefit from this pipeline but unfortunately people like the mayor of Montreal would rather import oil from Nigeria and Venezuela.

Alberta should suspend any transfer payments to Quebec.

we have one of the highest costs of production in the world and prices are low, how is that not the main factor? 

 

https://knoema.com/vyronoe/cost-of-oil-production-by-country

 

if you want to get into the whole transfer payment thing we should start a new thread, the misconceptions on that one are massive. 

 

[Rick Blight]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we have one of the highest costs of production in the world and prices are low, how is that not the main factor? 

 

https://knoema.com/vyronoe/cost-of-oil-production-by-country

 

if you want to get into the whole transfer payment thing we should start a new thread, the misconceptions on that one are massive. 

 

Jimmy, those are 2014 production costs. There are many Canadian energy companies today that can make as much money at $50 per barrel as they used to make at $100 per barrel due to the technology gains over the past few years. 

[JM_]

20 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Jimmy, those are 2014 production costs. There are many Canadian energy companies today that can make as much money at $50 per barrel as they used to make at $100 per barrel due to the technology gains over the past few years. 

Do you have a link to that? I have a  very had time believing that profit margins are the same as $100 oil. 

 

I think this whole us vs the east thing thats going on is pure bs politics and a red herring from the issue of pricing. How is it any different from Petronas in BC? Prices were the main driver there too. 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Rick Blight said:

Jimmy, those are 2014 production costs. There are many Canadian energy companies today that can make as much money at $50 per barrel as they used to make at $100 per barrel due to the technology gains over the past few years. 

I believe that Suncor says their production costs all-in are under $25 a barrel.  Syncrude apparently even better and CNRL in same range.  That $90 in the graph is fantasy it would seem. From Suncor 2016 Report on Costs/Production

 

"  Oil Sands operations cash operating costs per barrel decreased to $22.15 for the third quarter of 2016, an 18% reduction versus the prior year quarter and the lowest in over a decade. "

 

As far as Energy East, not having Alberta oil having access to a port on either coast is not in the best interest of all Canadians if you believe in responsible economic development but will know that some will feel that not having projects of any sort is somehow best.   I know in BC you have stopped your Site C, Massey Bridge and are pushing to stop twinning a pipeline you have had for more than 50 years without concern.   

 

People demand things all the time (even protestors wear polar fleece....which, tada, comes from oil.....as does carbon fibre for your Tesla but I digress) but have a NIMBY approach to how society creates the wealth to pay for them.    That is where NDP governments come from but eventually fail quite quickly when they have ground an economy into the ground as someone had to actually create something so that people could have actual jobs.

 

Have fun in BC!  

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I believe that Suncor says their production costs all-in are under $25 a barrel.  Syncrude apparently even better and CNRL in same range.  That $90 in the graph is fantasy it would seem. From Suncor 2016 Report on Costs/Production

 

"  Oil Sands operations cash operating costs per barrel decreased to $22.15 for the third quarter of 2016, an 18% reduction versus the prior year quarter and the lowest in over a decade. "

 

As far as Energy East, not having Alberta oil having access to a port on either coast is not in the best interest of all Canadians if you believe in responsible economic development but will know that some will feel that not having projects of any sort is somehow best.   I know in BC you have stopped your Site C, Massey Bridge and are pushing to stop twinning a pipeline you have had for more than 50 years without concern.   

 

People demand things all the time (even protestors wear polar fleece....which, tada, comes from oil.....as does carbon fibre for your Tesla but I digress) but have a NIMBY approach to how society creates the wealth to pay for them.    That is where NDP governments come from but eventually fail quite quickly when they have ground an economy into the ground as someone had to actually create something so that people could have actual jobs.

 

Have fun in BC!  

Mrs. Alf and I have houses on the Atlantic and the Pacific.  Much of Atlantic Canada does not have access to natural gas, and is really quite a ways behind the rest of Canada for proper infrastructure.  It's bloody shame the politicians don't help out the Atlantic Provinces develop.  

[Rick Blight]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Do you have a link to that? I have a  very had time believing that profit margins are the same as $100 oil. 

 

I think this whole us vs the east thing thats going on is pure bs politics and a red herring from the issue of pricing. How is it any different from Petronas in BC? Prices were the main driver there too. 

Further to what Rob is alluding to above, I have found a link showing the 5 best netback oil companies as of April 6th, 2017. Nebacks are a measurement of the profitability per barrel of oil equivalent (BOE). Prices in April were very similar to today and you will see that these 5 companies are making between $25.04 and $27.09 per barrel produced.

https://smallcappower.com/investing-ideas/tsx-oil-stocks-low-costs/

 

I have no problem with companies making business decisions based on pricing of products and Transcanada may not have proceeded with this pipeline in any event. My issue is with the government setting up approval criteria which is very expensive and slow in the approval process compounded by them changing the rules part way through the process. It is just not an environment that allows for sound business making decisions.

[Ronaldoescobar]

8 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I believe that Suncor says their production costs all-in are under $25 a barrel.  Syncrude apparently even better and CNRL in same range.  That $90 in the graph is fantasy it would seem. From Suncor 2016 Report on Costs/Production

 

"  Oil Sands operations cash operating costs per barrel decreased to $22.15 for the third quarter of 2016, an 18% reduction versus the prior year quarter and the lowest in over a decade. "

 

As far as Energy East, not having Alberta oil having access to a port on either coast is not in the best interest of all Canadians if you believe in responsible economic development but will know that some will feel that not having projects of any sort is somehow best.   I know in BC you have stopped your Site C, Massey Bridge and are pushing to stop twinning a pipeline you have had for more than 50 years without concern.   

 

People demand things all the time (even protestors wear polar fleece....which, tada, comes from oil.....as does carbon fibre for your Tesla but I digress) but have a NIMBY approach to how society creates the wealth to pay for them.    That is where NDP governments come from but eventually fail quite quickly when they have ground an economy into the ground as someone had to actually create something so that people could have actual jobs.

 

Have fun in BC!  

Yup pretty much... 

 

And wont it just be awesome that the US will still control our exports for the most part and Canadians will pay high prices forever. But heaven forbid a pipeline that would actually allow us to send oil to other countries other than the US. 

 

Rail Transport is where it is at!! Far far more susceptible to accidents and way way more expensive to use for transportation which is only to the US and throughout Canada but the oil companies behind the pipelines and the revenue that Canada would gain are evil so who cares. 

[kingofsurrey]

That is what happens when you fail to consult  / work with the indigenous people of Saskatchewan. 

 

PS  - Mother earth also says THANKS   as anything that slows global warming is a good thing. 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

That is what happens when you fail to consult  / work with the indigenous people of Saskatchewan. 

 

PS  - Mother earth also says THANKS   as anything that slows global warming is a good thing. 

 

Nice to know you don't drive or use polyesters etc.   Thanks (says Mother Nature!).    

[Violator]

28 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

That is what happens when you fail to consult  / work with the indigenous people of Saskatchewan. 

 

PS  - Mother earth also says THANKS   as anything that slows global warming is a good thing. 

 

Preach brother preach 

[ice orca]

40 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Nice to know you don't drive or use polyesters etc.   Thanks (says Mother Nature!).    

I wonder what he would say if the rest of us living in other provinces just packed up and moved to Vancouver to enjoy the climate and ride a bike. 

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

governments can only do so much, oil prices have been and always will be the dominant factor. I checked out some of the more financially-based articles on this and the prime reason is the price forecasts are too low. Alberta oil is just too expensive to make it viable. Brad Wall can huff and puff all he wants but OPEC pulls the strings. 

 

I was reading different economic reports yesterday after this announcement

 

To see Scheer, Poileverre and kenny in Alberta pointing their fingers after digging them out from their noises was disturbing.

 

This pipeline was proposed in early 2013.  The majority governments at the time could have had almost everything done.  Environmental and feasibility.  Instead they did nothing.  true Dough came in and said sure go ahead work it out with the provinces.  So for them to sit and point fingers and play the blame game is utter sh*t.  Playing partisan politics with this country's future and its GDP just to score political points while they sat on their collective arses is just mind blowing

 

Now

 

With Keystone XL approved.  There were 3 other pipelines in fact ahead of Line East that were already more economically viable.  With no refineries back east of the size and capacity that could capably process heavy crude from the Alberta Oil Sands areas and it being over 1000kms further away than the US markets that are already operational.  Coupled with the fact that as of right now there is not enough oil being produced to ensure a continuous supply.  This was by every economic report published yesterday a money loser, or a negative deal which was never going to happen.

 

All it is is a major corporation that knew in advance it was not going to move ahead with the project ensuring the timing was right in order to sit and say well...we WERE going to but they and they and them made us not want to so blame them don't read the reports just blame them.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I was reading different economic reports yesterday after this announcement

 

To see Scheer, Poileverre and kenny in Alberta pointing their fingers after digging them out from their noises was disturbing.

 

This pipeline was proposed in early 2013.  The majority governments at the time could have had almost everything done.  Environmental and feasibility.  Instead they did nothing.  true Dough came in and said sure go ahead work it out with the provinces.  So for them to sit and point fingers and play the blame game is utter sh*t.  Playing partisan politics with this country's future and its GDP just to score political points while they sat on their collective arses is just mind blowing

 

Now

 

With Keystone XL approved.  There were 3 other pipelines in fact ahead of Line East that were already more economically viable.  With no refineries back east of the size and capacity that could capably process heavy crude from the Alberta Oil Sands areas and it being over 1000kms further away than the US markets that are already operational.  Coupled with the fact that as of right now there is not enough oil being produced to ensure a continuous supply.  This was by every economic report published yesterday a money loser, or a negative deal which was never going to happen.

 

All it is is a major corporation that knew in advance it was not going to move ahead with the project ensuring the timing was right in order to sit and say well...we WERE going to but they and they and them made us not want to so blame them don't read the reports just blame them.

+1 (im out)

 

I read one oil analyst yesterday that said EE was always "plan B" to KXL and the Burnaby twinning and by far the least viable project of the 3.

 

But yah of course we all really know its son of Pierre... did it on purpose... hates Alberta.... western alienation...