[Discussion] Game 1 Oct 7th 2017. Coaching Takeaway

[PlanB]

35 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

It was a really good game to show the value of corsi numbers, or maybe how sometimes that stat tells you nothing.

Not to mention,  where's the statistic showing the impact a little hometown kid can have on an entire team with one hit/fight combo?  Or the stat explaining the resurrection of a potentially finished career after Dorsett is seemingly on the track to transform onto a checking/shut-down forward? 

 

The Arizonas and Floridas of the league can keep their analytics - I'll take Trevor/JB/Green. 

[Fanuck]

17 minutes ago, PlanB said:

 

The Arizonas and Floridas of the league can keep their analytics - I'll take Trevor/JB/Green. 

It's one game - ONE GAME - I wouldn't give anyone the keys to the city just yet.  Let's hope we keep trending up though! 

[combover]

Defiantly like what I saw in the first game. Fast upbeat with checking hitting. Seems to use his players more effectively coaching to there strengths instead of trying to make them into something there not. 

The oilers were suprised and not ready for the physical game Vancouver brought, new coaches usually suprise a few team before they  start getting figured out that will be when the true test begins. 

If nothing else Green looks like he will play an entertaining style of hockey that alone is a huge improvement from recent years. 

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

25 minutes ago, PlanB said:

Not to mention,  where's the statistic showing the impact a little hometown kid can have on an entire team with one hit/fight combo?  Or the stat explaining the resurrection of a potentially finished career after Dorsett is seemingly on the track to transform onto a checking/shut-down forward? 

 

The Arizonas and Floridas of the league can keep their analytics - I'll take Trevor/JB/Green. 

I'm all for stats that make sense and actually tell the correct story at the end of the day, but that one in particular (CF%) is useless for a performance like saturday night by our guys. 

[canuck2288]

10 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Stop comparing coaches fgs. 

Is it too much to ask to expect "fans of the game" to realise the difference between two different rosters, key players being fit and younger players being more experienced?

 

And in answer to the OP - NO the team did NOT lack compete in any of WD years as coach.

Willie’s mom does not give up, your son is gone get over it. 

 

By your logic your coach makes zero difference, in fact why even have one? Just let players “mature”

 

If we knew that we could have saved ourselves from having to watch your clipboard-toting twitching son playing his favourites Vey and Megna all night every night 

[ilduce39]

Have to agree with the posters saying the roster Green inherited this year makes comparing him to Willie's last two seasons pretty tough.  Willie's first year was pretty successful (yeah playoffs he was slow to adapt - ironically not playing the Twins enough when later he was criticized for playing them too much) but otherwise was an unexpectedly good year.  His teams also never imploded from a morale standpoint - didn't quit.  Green didn't inherit a split locker room or any cancers.  That's big considering 2 years of futility. (Roster/depth/talent based futility IMO)  I wish Willie all the best.  

 

I do think Green is pushing all the right buttons to start the year.  I like the passing of the torch from the Sedins - should benefit them as well.  He also has the depth to play "next man up" and keep the pace going.  Where Willie (understandably) pulled back I like that he has the team attacking.  Benching Boeser was worth it to see everyone falling on their swords.  Coupled with low Sedin ice time shows he isn't pandering to fans OR vets.  Should be fun to watch!

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Granted it has only been 1 game so take this cautiously, but Green so far has been the best coach this team has had since AV and even then, AV never really did well head-to-head against other coaches. He never played the matchup game well, whereas it appears Green is going to focus more on other teams and how to beat them.

 

Most coaches admit that they don't care what the opposition is doing, and if they play the right way they'll succeed, but Green went the other way and said that he will roll his lines and style of play depending on the opponent. I think because of this flexible coaching style, we'll see far more wins. If the Canucks somehow make the playoffs, I think they'll go far, whether it be now or in a few years time. From what Green has preached so far, I believe his style will have great playoff success.

 

His hard work ethic style reminds me a bit of Tortorella though so lets just hope it's a sustainable type of play and that our key players don't get burnt out. Yes, he rolled the lines almost perfectly, but Edler still logged 25 minutes, and I think Sutter and Horvat are going to get used to death, with Henrik and Burmistrov/whoever ends up being our 4th line center getting a bit more sheltered. Injuries and how Green manages them will determine whether or not he's a great coach, but so far he's certainly a very good coach.

2 good points.

 

I think the line up, particularly the shut down line Granlund, Sutter, Dorsett was tailored specifically for the Oilers.  Next game we may see different line combinations and Boeser inserted.

 

The work level reminds me of Torts too.  I think the differences are (1) how he motivated the players, and (2) the actual system makes more sense

[JM_]

28 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Willie’s mom does not give up, you son is gone get over it. 

 

By your logic your coach makes zero difference, in fact why even have one? Just let players “mature”

 

If if we knew that we could have saved ourself from having to watch you clipboard toting twitching son playing his favourites Vey and Megna all night. 

I don't think Stonker knows the difference between 'beat' and 'beat down'. WD's style was demoralizing to watch and you can tell from player reactions it was no fun to play. Sure we may lose as many games under Green but at least they won't be falling back in our zone over and over again to do it. 

[ilduce39]

59 minutes ago, Canadian Clay said:

Man I see people say this all the time, but WD always had horvat with less minutes than both Henrik and Sutter every game, he had chaput and megna on the first line while grandlund it eriksson sat on the 4th line, always had Sedins our there for the end of the game, and he loved putting the 4th line out after the other team iced it. 

Bo averaged 1 minute less (18 min) than Hank (19 min) and 30 seconds less than Sutter.   That's not a huge discrepancy- though I love that Green is willing to scale back the Twins and appoint Sutter as a shutdown guy.  By the end of the year I think Bo was getting more time - but with lack of depth Sedin and Sutter were still playing a ton so their numbers wouldn't fall.

 

Loui averaged 18+ minutes and Granlund averaged 17 min+ while Megna averaged 12:30 and Chaput 11:00.  The Chaput/Megna narrative was good for a chuckle but it's played out.  Did they get some silly shifts up the lineup?  Sure.  But they weren't getting prime minutes.

 

I don't relish the position as Vice President of the Willie Fan Club (alf is obviously the president) but the team last year was woefully undermanned and certain narratives caught way too much steam.  TG has an actual NHL roster to work with - including a young core ready to take the reigns in Bo/Stecher/Hutton/Baer/Granlund/Brock/Virtanen that Willie either didn't have or helped to shape.  

 

I like to look at it as Willie kept the team working hard through two ridiculously tough years... now TG can start to shape it back into respectability.  Do we make playoffs this year? Who knows but I don't think we're cellar dwellers.

[riffraff]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't think Stonker knows the difference between 'beat' and 'beat down'. WD's style was demoralizing to watch and you can tell from player reactions it was no fun to play. Sure we may lose as many games under Green but at least they won't be falling back in our zone over and over again to do it. 

He's gonna be grinding that axe for the rest of his years.

[stawns]

10 hours ago, Brad Marchand said:

IMO the most encouraging part of yesterday's game was that the Canucks were able to force their style of play on the Oilers. Even McLellan admitted as such:

 

Obviously not every game is going to have the same level of intensity, but it's good to see that Green is at least capable of motivating the players to push the pace of play from the opening faceoff (even though they gave up the first goal, they responded quickly). The past few versions of the team have been too tentative early in games and would often fall behind.

True that it won't happen every game, but the Comets played the majority of their games like that.

[CeeBee51]

7 minutes ago, riffraff said:

He's gonna be grinding that axe for the rest of his years.

 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

[TheGuardian_]

54 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

It's one game - ONE GAME - I wouldn't give anyone the keys to the city just yet.  Let's hope we keep trending up though! 

It is a weird schedule. The Canucks had almost an entire week to practice for the game vs the Oilers and now almost another 2 full days to prepare for Ottawa.

 

The game plan was very good and the players were ready from the start of the game, koodo's to Green.

 

It is hard to judge a team by one game but it was an inspiring effort.

 

There is something called the Hawthorne effect, it is something that happens, usually improved performance, when there is a change of leadership with the same playing/working personnel, Willie had it in his first year, Green may have it here, one game is hard to tell.

[NazlundSnipe]

I know it's only 1 game and Nucks have some other players but I have to say the coaching to me is already way better.... WD just seemed to stick to the Sedins and didn't appear to have composure and confidence when I saw him behind the bench or in interviews. 

TG already seems more of everything in just a short time too.... I know it's still early but TG acts like he's been coaching in the NHL for 20years.

Also how bout Jake virtanen.... was looking like he belongs on the team now IMO.

Very excited and hopefully for a entertaining season

Go Nucks Go

[TheGuardian_]

11 minutes ago, NazlundSnipe said:

I know it's only 1 game and Nucks have some other players but I have to say the coaching to me is already way better.... WD just seemed to stick to the Sedins and didn't appear to have composure and confidence when I saw him behind the bench or in interviews. 

TG already seems more of everything in just a short time too.... I know it's still early but TG acts like he's been coaching in the NHL for 20years.

Also how bout Jake virtanen.... was looking like he belongs on the team now IMO.

Very excited and hopefully for a entertaining season

Go Nucks Go

Jake got 7 minutes of ice time, that is belonging?

The only young prospect on the team, 7 minutes? That is teaching?

 

Jake showed that if he is going to try to score goals he has the speed to push the D back. I didn't really see what he did to be benched though.

[oldnews]

13 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I noticed something last night.

 

Now bear with me, I am a shade in the cups (Happy Turkey Murder Weekend) but have been going over last nights game.

 

In 2009 and 2010 when we basically got abused by the Hawks,  The 1 standout and true takeaway was the coaching.  Quenville literally out coached AV to the cup as it was.  In 2009 when we got ousted it was in big part because Quenville opted to utilize Big Buff's buff in the face of opposing goalies.  In 2010 again but also effectively shut down Pronger as well.

 

Coaching was something we've been complaining about for a long time.  We've had good coaches, but not coaches who thought on the fly

 

Last night, while only 1 game in showed a piece of Green I wasn't too sure on.  He out coached McClellan and the Oilers and all but had Dorsett...Derek frigging Dorsett shut down Conn McJesus.  He also effectively managed 4 complete lines where the Sedins actually only had 14 minutes of ice time.  Edler played some big minutes of the type AV used to give him in the same situations and he was quite effective.

 

Now it's only 1 game and obviously it's pre mature but if Green is going to come in and actually think his way through games and change his plan on the fly in the manner that sees us successful instead of simply sticking to the game plan or "defending the tie"

 

Agree that Green is a coach that gameplans for opponents - most do, even at the amateur level - but I hope that last reference wasn't to AV and the whole "Defend the 0-0 tie" thing that was absurdly attached to him (which it appears to be by your earlier comments).   He was - and is - one of the best possession coaches in the NHL.  His teams here - were incredibly well-balanced - in fact in 2011 they were the highest scoring team in the NHL, while giving up the fewest goals.  Something people who think coaches should just 'free up the kids to focus on offense' -  or are too restictive / play too much defense might want to think about - the fact the two are inseparable and entirely integrated.  They also had the best penalty killing in the NHL and the most lethal powerplay.  AV was nothing resembling a 'defend the 0-0 tie' coach.  His team was the first since the dynasty Habs to accomplish that.  If you look at those Hawks rosters that the Canucks lost to - and beat - there is no shame in losing to teams like those - they were absurdly deep, lethal at the top end with quality running throughout their entire rosters (it wasn't simply 'coaching').

[NazlundSnipe]

22 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Jake got 7 minutes of ice time, that is belonging?

The only young prospect on the team, 7 minutes? That is teaching?

 

Jake showed that if he is going to try to score goals he has the speed to push the D back. I didn't really see what he did to be benched though.

I didn't mean he belongs like on top 6 or anything like that.... I just meant he was our top pick and didnt show why when he was here last.... watching him play Saturday I thought he showed why he was our top pick. He still a rookie and has a long way to go

 

[IBatch]

For me this was the best game the Canucks have played in a long,  long time.  Sure the Sedins and Vanek were ineffective on the score sheet but Green recognized that could be the case from the outset and limited their minutes.  Granlund and Dorsett were used brilliantly and all the guys puck pursuit threw the Oilers off as Edmonton said a cute structured game.

 

I wasn't happy that Boesser was a healthy scratch but Green made the right call and Dorsett cemented himself in the immediate future as the guy to use when playing a team with Uber skill.  Just an awesome effort by all, and a super start for Green.

[TheGuardian_]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Agree that Green is a coach that gameplans for opponents - most do, even at the amateur level - but I hope that last reference wasn't to AV and the whole "Defend the 0-0 tie" thing that was absurdly attached to him.  He was - and is - one of the best possession coaches in the NHL.  His teams here - were incredibly well-balanced - in fact in 2011 they were the highest scoring team in the NHL, while giving up the fewest goals.  Something people who think coaches should just 'free up the kids to focus on offense' -  or are too restictive / play too much defense might want to think about - the fact the two are inseparable and entirely integrated.  They also had the best penalty killing in the NHL and the most lethal powerplay.  AV was nothing resembling a 'defend the 0-0 tie' coach.  His team was the first since the dynasty Habs to accomplish that.

I guess you never heard the Naslund comments or the Sundin comments, both were referring to the NHL being a puck possession game now and not a dump and pray.

Defending a 0-0 tie, well that may be over exaggeration but a 1 goal lead, he did that all the time in his first 3 years here, it was not unusual for the team to be out shot 3 to 1 after taking a one goal lead.

The change came when he "gave the room" to the players, he wasn't coaching the dmen, the PP or PK and his game management was hardly existent. He did improve over time BUT a lot, if not most, of his success rides on the shoulders of Luongo and now Lunquist two of the best goalies in the NHL.

 

Don't go just by win percentage or points, he had the advantage of the loser point and OT.

When the team was losing it was because of the players he had and when he won it was all about him and not the players. There is a reason his hidden/behind the scenes nickname is/was "Mr. Arrogant"