[Discussion] Game 1 Oct 7th 2017. Coaching Takeaway

[spook007]

11 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

to be even more fair, WD had a roster of similar quality in his 1st year and got schooled by Calgary, in large part due to his inability to adapt during games. 

Aye but he did get that team to the play offs... 

Love what we saw in the first game, but remains to be seen if he keep this going... Hope he can, cause it sure was entertaining.

[oldnews]

Just now, TheGuardian_ said:

I guess you never heard the Naslund comments or the Sundin comments, both were referring to the NHL being a puck possession game now and not a dump and pray.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Referring to AV's systems as 'dump and pray' is about as oblivious as you could possibly be.

 

[TheGuardian_]

Just now, IBatch said:

For me this was the best game the Canucks have played in a long,  long time.  Sure the Sedins and Vanek were ineffective on the score sheet but Green recognized that could be the case from the outset and limited their minutes.  Granlund and Dorsett were used brilliantly and all the guys puck pursuit threw the Oilers off as Edmonton said a cute structured game.

 

I wasn't happy that Boesser was a healthy scratch but Green made the right call and Dorsett cemented himself in the immediate future as the guy to use when playing a team with Uber skill.  Just an awesome effort by all, and a super start for Green.

One way I could describe the Canucks play might be "surgical". It looked a little bit like a very high pressure left side lock with particular players targeted to be checked.

[Warhippy]

7 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Stop comparing coaches fgs. 

Is it too much to ask to expect "fans of the game" to realise the difference between two different rosters, key players being fit and younger players being more experienced?

 

And in answer to the OP - NO the team did NOT lack compete in any of WD years as coach.

You;ll have to excuse me as I was half in the bag last night and don't even really recall writing this. 

 

But after going over my post, I don't see anywhere that I brought up Wilie D at all.  Nor about compete level.

 

My post was about thinking on the fly, actually out coaching another coach.  What is perceived to be one the best coaches in the league.  Green went in to Saturday nights game with a plan and set lines.  Which he changed on the fly.  He deployed the twins in a way that I don't think anyone in the hockey world expected.

 

One thing we've not had since Quinn was behind teh bench was an intelligent coach who thought the game at the line by line level.  Not a pairing or matching but that proverbial step ahead.

 

1 game does not in ANY WAY mean Green is going to be that kind of coach.  But if he turns out that way, and we play out the rest of the year in this fashion.  I will be thrilled.  We could go in 2nd worst in the league again and I will be happy knowing we didn't roll over

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Agree that Green is a coach that gameplans for opponents - most do, even at the amateur level - but I hope that last reference wasn't to AV and the whole "Defend the 0-0 tie" thing that was absurdly attached to him (which it appears to be by your earlier comments).   He was - and is - one of the best possession coaches in the NHL.  His teams here - were incredibly well-balanced - in fact in 2011 they were the highest scoring team in the NHL, while giving up the fewest goals.  Something people who think coaches should just 'free up the kids to focus on offense' -  or are too restictive / play too much defense might want to think about - the fact the two are inseparable and entirely integrated.  They also had the best penalty killing in the NHL and the most lethal powerplay.  AV was nothing resembling a 'defend the 0-0 tie' coach.  His team was the first since the dynasty Habs to accomplish that.  If you look at those Hawks rosters that the Canucks lost to - and beat - there is no shame in losing to teams like those - they were absurdly deep, lethal at the top end with quality running throughout their entire rosters (it wasn't simply 'coaching').

No it was not a reference to AV entirely but all of our coaches since Quinn.  We've had static coaches who never adapted mid game.  We lost to better teams, no doubt.  Av is still one of my favorite coaches in the league and I still consider him entirely under rated.  I say

 

Defend the tie

 

As a reference to the coaches we see who cannot adapt.  Who get fixed in their game plan and when they see something new have no way to change or adapt to it.  Like Byfuglien as a forward, LA's insane post season PP etc.

 

Green showed he actually did adapt in game in a way that saw him out think McClellan and stymied what is supposed to be one of the best offenses in the entire league.  He did it with Derek Dorsett and the twins playing less than 15 minutes.

 

One game again, not indicative of the season of course but shows to be very intriguing if it becomes a trend.  

18 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Jake got 7 minutes of ice time, that is belonging?

The only young prospect on the team, 7 minutes? That is teaching?

 

Jake showed that if he is going to try to score goals he has the speed to push the D back. I didn't really see what he did to be benched though.

7 minutes is concerning.  We don't know if that will be a trend.  Green knows Jake better than anyone on this forum and I'd say anyone in the organization.  7 minutes allowed for Jake to be well rested and not a liability.  he brought energy and was a threat almost every shift.

 

I will say I'd rather see Virtanen/Boeser in the AHL playing top 6 minutes 14-19 a game than watching them toil on the benches for 10 or less.

 

But hard to say green doesn't know best when it comes to Jake Virtanen.

 

Besides, we knew well in advance that we had very few roster spots for both Jake and Brock.  Much like my original post.  It's 1 game.  We don't know how the season will shake out but that was the least of my concerns was JV's ice time.

[TheGuardian_]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Referring to AV's systems as 'dump and pray' is about as oblivious as you could possibly be.

 

The Canucks were described at more than one time as New Jersey west, media joked that the Canucks were so boring playing the dump and chase game the NHL should make them give up a draft pick.

Did you watch ANY games in those first years?

 

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Aye but he did get that team to the play offs... 

Love what we saw in the first game, but remains to be seen if he keep this going... Hope he can, cause it sure was entertaining.

true dat. I just really hated his decisions on player deployment and the near-frantic line juggling at times. 

 

I'm really curious to see Green's style on the road. 

[spook007]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

true dat. I just really hated his decisions on player deployment and the near-frantic line juggling at times. 

 

I'm really curious to see Green's style on the road. 

WD's time was probably up, and now Green is swinging the whip.

I agree it'll be interesting to follow this team. I have a lot of hope for him and the style he wants to play.

[IBatch]

23 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You;ll have to excuse me as I was half in the bag last night and don't even really recall writing this. 

 

But after going over my post, I don't see anywhere that I brought up Wilie D at all.  Nor about compete level.

 

My post was about thinking on the fly, actually out coaching another coach.  What is perceived to be one the best coaches in the league.  Green went in to Saturday nights game with a plan and set lines.  Which he changed on the fly.  He deployed the twins in a way that I don't think anyone in the hockey world expected.

 

One thing we've not had since Quinn was behind teh bench was an intelligent coach who thought the game at the line by line level.  Not a pairing or matching but that proverbial step ahead.

 

1 game does not in ANY WAY mean Green is going to be that kind of coach.  But if he turns out that way, and we play out the rest of the year in this fashion.  I will be thrilled.  We could go in 2nd worst in the league again and I will be happy knowing we didn't roll over

No it was not a reference to AV entirely but all of our coaches since Quinn.  We've had static coaches who never adapted mid game.  We lost to better teams, no doubt.  Av is still one of my favorite coaches in the league and I still consider him entirely under rated.  I say

 

Defend the tie

 

As a reference to the coaches we see who cannot adapt.  Who get fixed in their game plan and when they see something new have no way to change or adapt to it.  Like Byfuglien as a forward, LA's insane post season PP etc.

 

Green showed he actually did adapt in game in a way that saw him out think McClellan and stymied what is supposed to be one of the best offenses in the entire league.  He did it with Derek Dorsett and the twins playing less than 15 minutes.

 

One game again, not indicative of the season of course but shows to be very intriguing if it becomes a trend.  

7 minutes is concerning.  We don't know if that will be a trend.  Green knows Jake better than anyone on this forum and I'd say anyone in the organization.  7 minutes allowed for Jake to be well rested and not a liability.  he brought energy and was a threat almost every shift.

 

I will say I'd rather see Virtanen/Boeser in the AHL playing top 6 minutes 14-19 a game than watching them toil on the benches for 10 or less.

 

But hard to say green doesn't know best when it comes to Jake Virtanen.

 

Besides, we knew well in advance that we had very few roster spots for both Jake and Brock.  Much like my original post.  It's 1 game.  We don't know how the season will shake out but that was the least of my concerns was JV's ice time.

Green will increase Jakes ice time if he keeps bringing it I'm sure.  Like you said he knows him better than anyone.  

[oldnews]

30 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

Did you watch ANY games

 

you are utterly oblivious.

carry on.

there are a lot of things that completely lack substance on these boards, but few of them can rival the absurd and ignorant 'systems' prattle that takes place on here.

[Hairy Kneel]

Sometimes 7 minutes is all you need.

[Nucksfollower1983]

it only took 1 game to see that TG is so much better than that hack WD. liked his after hours interview as well especially his response when asked about why he scratched BB. Seems like a guy who will give straight up honest answers, not the same old cookie cutter PC ones.

[Knucklehd]

I agree, TG is a breath of fresh air, but you watch, the first significant losing streak and he will be flogged on CDC. Lol

[appleboy]

I think that some coaches need a team to fit their style and others have the ability to chose a style that fits their players. (Or make adjustment's to fit the manpower) Our last two coaches needed a team that suited their style. Green seems to be the latter and AV was also better at putting players into a circumstance that fit their skill set.

Torts is a classic example of a coach who will try to pound a square peg into a round hole type of coach. Torts has his style and you play it or move on. We all seen the decisions that WD made over his time here. Both WD and Torts were good coaches with the right manpower.

[Nucksfollower1983]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Jake got 7 minutes of ice time, that is belonging?

The only young prospect on the team, 7 minutes? That is teaching?

 

Jake showed that if he is going to try to score goals he has the speed to push the D back. I didn't really see what he did to be benched though.

i dont think he was benched. I think his ice time was more a result of all the penalties as he is not on the PP/PK. From what I saw there was no reason to bench him, he created some good chances off the rush and drew at least 1 penalty.

[appleboy]

For those who think Jake was benched and that 7.34 minutes of 5 on 5 is not enough. Hank and Daniel had just under 8.00 minutes of 5 on 5. Until Jake is used killing penalties or used on the PP he will get around 8 to 10 minutes.

[Solinar]

 

17 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I think that some coaches need a team to fit their style and others have the ability to chose a style that fits their players. (Or make adjustment's to fit the manpower) Our last two coaches needed a team that suited their style. Green seems to be the latter and AV was also better at putting players into a circumstance that fit their skill set.

Torts is a classic example of a coach who will try to pound a square peg into a round hole type of coach. Torts has his style and you play it or move on. We all seen the decisions that WD made over his time here. Both WD and Torts were good coaches with the right manpower.

I like this assessment, and it's telling on how to run your organization as a whole.  It isn't about having the best coach sometimes, its about having the personnel to deploy for the coach that you have.  Torts needed an up tempo fast skating team.  AV needed fast transitional defensemen.  Willie...well, he needed a team that had some skill and more speed.

Green seems to like physical, faster players, and one touch passes to transition forwards, instead of Willie's static pass to the guy on the left side, that guy waits to pass across ice up to the right winger, dump in and chase after the puck.

  I hope that last night's game is a sign of things to come, and that we actually have a coach that can think on the fly.  Someone who can react in game and make the necessary changes to players/systems that'll lead to more success.   AV used to spin the line blender and pray, Tort's would do some chess matches, (using the Sedin's vs the Chara match up by having them step on the ice, force Chara out, and then step back on the bench, trapping Chara out was a fun game), and Willie....he had his system and hoped that it would win over the course of the game.

  But...a point...  I liked what I saw from a strategic standpoint and hope that it isn't a one off, or that the players do it for awhile and then fall back into bad habits.  If we play like this all season, even if we lose, it'll be entertaining.  We have decent coaching from top to bottom, even into the AHL.  Now to get the organisation more skill so that we can turn the tide.

  Oh, an aside....Look at some of the organisations out there that seems to have consistent problems in one area, but don't do anything to address the coaching, just rotate the personnel and hope for the best....(I'm looking at you, Winnipeg and Philly and your constant search for the goalie to solve your problems).

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

You;ll have to excuse me as I was half in the bag last night and don't even really recall writing this. 

 

But after going over my post, I don't see anywhere that I brought up Wilie D at all.  Nor about compete level.

 

My post was about thinking on the fly, actually out coaching another coach.  What is perceived to be one the best coaches in the league.  Green went in to Saturday nights game with a plan and set lines.  Which he changed on the fly.  He deployed the twins in a way that I don't think anyone in the hockey world expected.

 

One thing we've not had since Quinn was behind teh bench was an intelligent coach who thought the game at the line by line level.  Not a pairing or matching but that proverbial step ahead.

 

1 game does not in ANY WAY mean Green is going to be that kind of coach.  But if he turns out that way, and we play out the rest of the year in this fashion.  I will be thrilled.  We could go in 2nd worst in the league again and I will be happy knowing we didn't roll over

No it was not a reference to AV entirely but all of our coaches since Quinn.  We've had static coaches who never adapted mid game.  We lost to better teams, no doubt.  Av is still one of my favorite coaches in the league and I still consider him entirely under rated.  I say

 

Defend the tie

 

As a reference to the coaches we see who cannot adapt.  Who get fixed in their game plan and when they see something new have no way to change or adapt to it.  Like Byfuglien as a forward, LA's insane post season PP etc.

 

Green showed he actually did adapt in game in a way that saw him out think McClellan and stymied what is supposed to be one of the best offenses in the entire league.  He did it with Derek Dorsett and the twins playing less than 15 minutes.

 

One game again, not indicative of the season of course but shows to be very intriguing if it becomes a trend.  

7 minutes is concerning.  We don't know if that will be a trend.  Green knows Jake better than anyone on this forum and I'd say anyone in the organization.  7 minutes allowed for Jake to be well rested and not a liability.  he brought energy and was a threat almost every shift.

 

I will say I'd rather see Virtanen/Boeser in the AHL playing top 6 minutes 14-19 a game than watching them toil on the benches for 10 or less.

 

But hard to say green doesn't know best when it comes to Jake Virtanen.

 

Besides, we knew well in advance that we had very few roster spots for both Jake and Brock.  Much like my original post.  It's 1 game.  We don't know how the season will shake out but that was the least of my concerns was JV's ice time.

Apologies Warhippy, I'm in and out the house with a new puppy just now and I may have mixed you up with someone else.

 

It may have been the "as long as the compete level is there like last night I'd consider it awesome." that set me off.

 

I just keep on reading posts like there is a "second coming" after only one game and much as I am behind coach Green I object to any comparisons which frankly can't and shouldn't be made so early in anyones NHL career.

[Warhippy]

Just now, alfstonker said:

Apologies Warhippy, I'm in and out the house with a new puppy just now and I may have mixed you up with someone else.

 

It may have been the "as long as the compete level is there like last night I'd consider it awesome." that set me off.

 

I just keep on reading posts like there is a "second coming" after only one game and much as I am behind coach Green I object to any comparisons which frankly can't and shouldn't be made so early in anyones NHL career.

I read those same posts.

 

I gave up lol.

 

If we see the same kind of game like we did the other night and still choke the season I'll still be happy.

 

This is supposed to be our rock bottom season.  If we come out and play game in and game out I'll be happy.

[alfstonker]

14 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I read those same posts.

 

I gave up lol.

 

If we see the same kind of game like we did the other night and still choke the season I'll still be happy.

 

This is supposed to be our rock bottom season.  If we come out and play game in and game out I'll be happy.

So will I and I actually think we will.

 

I was watching the Habs game and our "style" of play reminds me a bit of them last season. they were a bit unlucky against NYR, that goalie interference decision would have put .5 on Lu's averages if the same standards had been applied throughout his seasons.

 

I thought the Habs were robbed.

[keehan3]

3 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

2 good points.

 

I think the line up, particularly the shut down line Granlund, Sutter, Dorsett was tailored specifically for the Oilers.  Next game we may see different line combinations and Boeser inserted.

 

The work level reminds me of Torts too.  I think the differences are (1) how he motivated the players, and (2) the actual system makes more sense

yes exactly...he's like an MMA fighter changing his stile for every different opponent to win the fight