What Are Your Thoughts of What A Rebuild Is?

[TheGuardian_]

5 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I just don’t share the old “mediocre rebuild” fears... plus I like the idea of building a good team by actually trying to build a good team rather than rolling the dice on draft picks.

That is a good distinction, build or rebuild. I seems they are trying to build, add to the team without actually rebuilding.

 

That can be a slippery slope that gets the team into the middle of the pact because once there they will be even more hesitant to tear down and rebuild.

 

At any rate they certainly don't make very many moves or trades of consequence once the season starts. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

8 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I suppose, though I’d say it’s easier to get that hard work and buy in when your team can compete against the rest of the league (which we even did last year for the first half) 

I keep seeing people say things like this, but has everyone just forgot about how bad we were last year? We were never competitive.  As soon as November hit we went on a 9 game loosing streak and never recovered from that.  The idea behind a competitive game isn't simply keeping a score close, it's about kids playing meaningful games in April.  That's where young players really develop and learn what it takes to be successful.  JB agree with this

 

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and there’s internal competition for spots.  

This year is a perfect example of being able to do that without having to move out picks.  Vanek, Burmy, gagner and Del Zotto were all brought in for that exact reason, all at the cost of zero future assets.    

 

 

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I’m certainly not arguing against draft picks - I hope JB explores whatever (if anything) he can get for Vanek and others at the deadline this year regardless of our position.  

 

We we could also use at least one more top D prospect in the pipeline.

Yes and this year is the perfect to land one of those prospects

 

 

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I keep seeing people say things like this, but has everyone just forgot about how bad we were last year? We were never competitive.  As soon as November hit we went on a 9 game loosing streak and never recovered from that.  The idea behind a competitive game isn't simply keeping a score close, it's about kids playing meaningful games in April.  That's where young players really develop and learn what it takes to be successful.  JB agree with this

 

This year is a perfect example of being able to do that without having to move out picks.  Vanek, Burmy, gagner and Del Zotto were all brought in for that exact reason, all at the cost of zero future assets.    

 

 

Yes and this year is the perfect to land one of those prospects

I agree last year wasn’t as competitive as JB would have liked.  Eriksson’s flop and Gudbranson being injured sure didn’t help.  Of course, Petterson is a great consolation prize.  

 

That’s admittedly impossible to reconcile: we need top prospects but I also don’t want to see Brock, Bo, Jake, Stecher, etc get their teeth kicked in for multiple seasons to start their careers.  Especially if they start cashing in on big contracts AND we’re still losing.  “Show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser.”  If Guardian wants to call it a build rather than a rebuild I don’t mind.  I’m hoping Jim’s balancing act between building a serviceable roster and making some nice draft picks pays off.

 

I do like how there’s a ton of D talent this draft though.  Liljegren and Foote love talent would be great and they didn’t go super early last year.  There’s hope we can nab some quality this year regardless of where we end up.

 

I’d also prefer signing vets for nothing, especially on the relatively short cost-effective deals JB pulled this summer.  Still, I think JB gained value in Granny/Baertschi and I like the early return on Pouliot even if he cost Pedan(3rd rounder) and a 4th.  I just can’t reconcile a “never trade draft picks/prospects” approach since I like the team trying to stay competitive plus I think there’s value to be found there.

 

I would, however, welcome some more selling at the deadline for picks considering we have a bit of a log jam at the moment in the NHL and AHL. I don’t think we’ll sacrifice much, if anything, in terms of competition when we sell at this point unless maybe Tanev gets moved. 

[TheGuardian_]

Benning's comments that he thinks this is the best team they have had might indicate that they are not rebuilding the team, that they are trying to build a team to get into the playoffs. That could be why the team is filled with FA signings instead of like other rebuilding teams, more rookies than one. Jake can't be considered a rookie and Boeser was just too good to be sent down, although the reason's given for sitting him out at the beginning of the season could mean they were building a case for sending him down. 

 

What is the "plan"? To play all the prospects next year? To wait until the team is in the playoffs or considered a "winning environment"? A 26 or 27th placed team at .500?

 

5 years ago 26th, today 23rd and falling.

 

Would making the playoffs indicated a rebuild with only one rookie in the line up?  

[aGENT]

49 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Benning's comments that he thinks this is the best team they have had might indicate that they are not rebuilding the team, that they are trying to build a team to get into the playoffs. That could be why the team is filled with FA signings instead of like other rebuilding teams, more rookies than one. Jake can't be considered a rookie and Boeser was just too good to be sent down, although the reason's given for sitting him out at the beginning of the season could mean they were building a case for sending him down. 

 

What is the "plan"? To play all the prospects next year? To wait until the team is in the playoffs or considered a "winning environment"? A 26 or 27th placed team at .500?

 

5 years ago 26th, today 23rd and falling.

 

Would making the playoffs indicated a rebuild with only one rookie in the line up?  

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Benning's comments that he thinks this is the best team they have had might indicate that they are not rebuilding the team, that they are trying to build a team to get into the playoffs. That could be why the team is filled with FA signings instead of like other rebuilding teams, more rookies than one. Jake can't be considered a rookie and Boeser was just too good to be sent down, although the reason's given for sitting him out at the beginning of the season could mean they were building a case for sending him down. 

 

What is the "plan"? To play all the prospects next year? To wait until the team is in the playoffs or considered a "winning environment"? A 26 or 27th placed team at .500?

 

5 years ago 26th, today 23rd and falling.

 

Would making the playoffs indicated a rebuild with only one rookie in the line up?  

I don’t really see that many prospects on the team next year.  You’ll have Gaudette and Goldy competing for spots, and Juolevi might be able to make the jump.  But really having 3 players (4 if we win the lotto and draft Dahlin) make the jump wouldn’t be that shocking to see, especially if you consider that two of those players will be 22 years old (not your typical 18 year old prospect).  Sedins might move on but it’s not like Bo, Sven, or Granlund are that young anymore.  All have played over 200 games and are in their 4th NHL season.  We will be a young team but we won’t be a team filled with inexperience.  We will be very similar to the 09/10Blackhawks in which they only had 4 players over the age of 30. The had 5 players on their roster that year that had under 90 games NHL experience, Canucks will likely have a similar number (Boeser, Goldobin, Gaudette? Juolevi?),  In fact it will be even more similar if we sign Kane as UFA, a fast skating PFW scorer, not unlike the hawks did with Hossa that summer.  

 

I’m not saying we will have the success the hawks had that year because we don’t have the skill on the back end or the top end talent upfront, but we won’t be throwing the young players to the wolves.  As for what the plan is among the idea of a rebuilding, I’m not sure, we’ve got this hybrid theory going on, and yes we are filling the cupboards I’m not sure it was the quickest or most competitive route (which is what we were going for), but it does look like we are heading down the right path and not paddling up river. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don’t really see that many prospects on the team next year.  You’ll have Gaudette and Goldy competing for spots, and Juolevi might be able to make the jump.  But really having 3 players (4 if we win the lotto and draft Dahlin) make the jump wouldn’t be that shocking to see, especially if you consider that two of those players will be 22 years old (not your typical 18 year old prospect).  Sedins might move on but it’s not like Bo, Sven, or Granlund are that young anymore.  All have played over 200 games and are in their 4th NHL season.  We will be a young team but we won’t be a team filled with inexperience.  We will be very similar to the 09/10Blackhawks in which they only had 4 players over the age of 30. The had 5 players on their roster that year that had under 90 games NHL experience, Canucks will likely have a similar number (Boeser, Goldobin, Gaudette? Juolevi?),  In fact it will be even more similar if we sign Kane as UFA, a fast skating PFW scorer, not unlike the hawks did with Hossa that summer.  

 

I’m not saying we will have the success the hawks had that year because we don’t have the skill on the back end or the top end talent upfront, but we won’t be throwing the young players to the wolves.  As for what the plan is among the idea of a rebuilding, I’m not sure, we’ve got this hybrid theory going on, and yes we are filling the cupboards I’m not sure it was the quickest or most competitive route (which is what we were going for), but it does look like we are heading down the right path and not paddling up river. 

*Pettersson will be in the mix for a spot as well IMO.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

23 minutes ago, aGENT said:

*Pettersson will be in the mix for a spot as well IMO.

Yep I could even see dalhen pushing too. It will be a fun camp to watch. 

[aGENT]

58 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yep I could even see dalhen pushing too. It will be a fun camp to watch. 

Yup and yup.

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yep I could even see dalhen pushing too. It will be a fun camp to watch. 

The team might need to sign, draft or trade for a couple of Tarzans to make sure these kids get room and not run out of the arena.

[aGENT]

58 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The team might need to sign, draft or trade for a couple of Tarzans to make sure these kids get room and not run out of the arena.

[Alflives]

Just now, aGENT said:

If Lucic got 6x6, what is a much younger guy, like Kane, worth?

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The team might need to sign, draft or trade for a couple of Tarzans to make sure these kids get room and not run out of the arena.

John Scott please.  No one's taking liberties with him on the ice and he's a teriffic guy in the room too.

[CanadianRugby]

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎04 at 12:56 PM, ilduce39 said:

I agree last year wasn’t as competitive as JB would have liked.  Eriksson’s flop and Gudbranson being injured sure didn’t help.  Of course, Petterson is a great consolation prize.  

 

That’s admittedly impossible to reconcile: we need top prospects but I also don’t want to see Brock, Bo, Jake, Stecher, etc get their teeth kicked in for multiple seasons to start their careers.  Especially if they start cashing in on big contracts AND we’re still losing.  “Show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser.”  If Guardian wants to call it a build rather than a rebuild I don’t mind.  I’m hoping Jim’s balancing act between building a serviceable roster and making some nice draft picks pays off.

Too late for most of them, this will (most likely) be the 3rd straight season that they end up at the bottom.  Dominated on the scoreboard and physically.  I don't think this is terrible as some claim.  Bo, Stetcher and Brock haven't had problems despite the garbage team.  I know it was popular to say that losing ruins your prospects, but our prospects don't seem very ruined to me.  You're right though you don't want them getting big contracts while the team still stinks.  Which is why this should have been an all in rebuild from the start.  Again, too late to fix that so let's see where Benning goes from here.  Next couple of years will be interesting.  

 

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎04 at 12:56 PM, ilduce39 said:

I do like how there’s a ton of D talent this draft though.  Liljegren and Foote love talent would be great and they didn’t go super early last year.  There’s hope we can nab some quality this year regardless of where we end up.

 

I’d also prefer signing vets for nothing, especially on the relatively short cost-effective deals JB pulled this summer.  Still, I think JB gained value in Granny/Baertschi and I like the early return on Pouliot even if he cost Pedan(3rd rounder) and a 4th.  I just can’t reconcile a “never trade draft picks/prospects” approach since I like the team trying to stay competitive plus I think there’s value to be found there.

 

I would, however, welcome some more selling at the deadline for picks considering we have a bit of a log jam at the moment in the NHL and AHL. I don’t think we’ll sacrifice much, if anything, in terms of competition when we sell at this point unless maybe Tanev gets moved. 

All trying to stay competitive did was cost us draft picks.  Baertschi is a good player but who knows what Benning could have drafted with all the picks he traded away.  I agree that I like signing vets better as it costs nothing but cap space.  Though at this point I care way less about draft picks than I did 2-3 years ago.  Whoever we draft (outside of our top pick) will most likely just be making the league (if they do at all) by the time this rebuild has already succeeded/failed.  

[TheGuardian_]

IMO the team will need to have 4 to 5 "core" players that are on/can make the team for period of 10 years. That would be the high skill guys. The team will have to trade for a couple or the "window" will only be open for 2 years as they will be aging out or their contracts may be too expensive. 

 

They may have 3 so far, but only two in the NHL, Boeser and Horvat. Petersson looks to be there in 2/3 years and Demko should help solidify the goal. The team would need the "stud" dman and could use some larger support players.

 

The second season is where the large support players can really make a dent, the regular season is almost super skill "beer" league and the playoffs are when things can get really nasty with hitting, intimidation and the whistles in the pockets.