aGENT Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 47 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: So at the rate they are doing, almost 2 every 4 years then in 8 years there will be 8 new players? That is for a 3rd/4th liner and a high end prospect yet to be proven, Boeser needs a season, actually if he makes this season it can be considered a win. 1 "maybe" player/skater from the 2014 draft, Big T if he comes back. 1 player from the 2015 draft. Man this is going to take the life time of a player at that rate. Pretty sure your math doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Yes it is not panic. It is stomach illness of watching the same tired slow PP1 unit game after game - year after year. Our PP 1 unit was done 3 year , and WE all knew it. Time to bring in a new PP ! unit and give them serious minutes to see if it can be developed / improved. I get that King, but look at it honestly........we honestly do not have any elite skilled players on the team right now......... They are coming, but we are going to have to put in some time...we have elite passing prospects in Pettersson, Lind and Joulevi, and we have what I believe to be elite scoring prospects in Broeser and Goldobin.......they are coming What we honestly do not have as of yet, is the elite PP quarterback, maybe Joulevi, but I see him as a #2, but depending how we draft this year and where, we will probably get him in the 2018 draft....there is a very high likelihood anyways, but we will have to wait and see Like I said in the original post, it is no time to panic and do something like be competitive ....it is just too soon...... Again, I would like to see Broeser and Virtanen sent down until the trade deadline, and feel some success, and not feel the frustration that much be brewing with in the power play units........ It will simply just take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I'd panic if there are no improvement after being in the basement after 7 years. I'd give Benning time to develop his prospects properly. I just don't see us doing anything until there are enough depth for injuries as we seem to hit injuries every year due to the location and the length of games in a row on the road trip. There are no way to practice, rest and recover like the eastern teams enjoy those advantages. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 I would also like to add to the general conversation by saying that for 3 years now, I have been saying that we should be trading veteran for picks, and there has been a constant push back in those that think we "must" have veteran leadership and a veteran presence on the team, which is all and fine........but we moved 2 veterans, and one went to free agency, and look how easy it was to replace them........ Del Zotto looks very sound IMO Gagner, no worse than Burrows (sorry Deb) Nilsson..........will not be as good as Miller...but no one thought he would be Burmistrov looks to be a good addition for what he is Vanek is just here for a coffee The additions are no worse than the subtractions...........and there is your new veteran leadership........... Which isn't really the case anyways until Hank and Dank retire! Which I hope and pray will be at the end of this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, coolboarder said: I'd panic if there are no improvement after being in the basement after 7 years. I'd give Benning time to develop his prospects properly. I just don't see us doing anything until there are enough depth for injuries as we seem to hit injuries every year due to the location and the length of games in a row on the road trip. There are no way to practice, rest and recover like the eastern teams enjoy those advantages. . NHL top 10 man-games lost 1 TOR 448 NJD 405 MTL 383 EDM 367 BUF 346 ARI 331 VAN 327 COL 317 PIT 313 OTT 307https://www.mangameslost.com/nhl-man-games-lost-april-9-2016/ … 3:55 PM - Apr 9, 2016 It isn't the division or the travel or lack of practice Cool Boarder.......it is the lack of talent and depth Notice how the top 3 teams are all eastern teams.......4 of the top 5............6 of the top 10.......................Our team is small and slow......much easier to hit......you didn't see Tryamkin get banged around did you? It is year to year....it changes every year....but again we are there more than others, because we are slow and small.....you don't see Anahiem and SanJose in the 2016 top 10 Man Games Lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, aGENT said: I assumed they'd be in the bottom 10 last year without a tonne of luck. 15-20 with a tonne of luck. I wouldn't call that 'homer-glasses'. YMMV. As for Guardian's assesment, forgive me if I take his info with a grain of salt: https://canucksarmy.com/2016/03/31/what-role-have-injuries-played-in-the-canucks-brutal-season/ http://www.notey.com/@mangameslost_unofficial/external/15133290/nhl-man-games-lost-march-25-2017.html You might want to get the correct season, the first quote was the 2015-16 season, not last year.....like shooter said, but you had a good day though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 52 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: You might want to get the correct season, the first quote was the 2015-16 season, not last year.....like shooter said, but you had a good day though..... We were talking about the last couple seasons Forsy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, aGENT said: We were talking about the last couple seasons Forsy... 4 pages ago, Last year was the year that ESPN predicted the 65 point season. We've clearly been on that topic, you acknowledged this "Yeah but they were basing those claims on a 'normal' amount of injuries. We did not have a 'normal' amount of injuries.......And people were still assuming Benning would hang on to Burr/Hansen last year because he 'won't move vets / isn't rebuilding" Last year was a walk in the park in terms of missing valuable players. I'll say it again, give Canucks a healthy roster and we still weren't a 15-20 placed team last year. 95% of our roster did not perform to what we hoped/expected them to, that is we sucked. That is why even today with a better roster on paper, we are still pegged to be a bottom feeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 Told ya all...not a time to panic.......... But now we have a goalie controversy ......boy, oh boy, oh boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: I get that King, but look at it honestly........we honestly do not have any elite skilled players on the team right now......... They are coming, but we are going to have to put in some time...we have elite passing prospects in Pettersson, Lind and Joulevi, and we have what I believe to be elite scoring prospects in Broeser and Goldobin.......they are coming What we honestly do not have as of yet, is the elite PP quarterback, maybe Joulevi, but I see him as a #2, but depending how we draft this year and where, we will probably get him in the 2018 draft....there is a very high likelihood anyways, but we will have to wait and see Like I said in the original post, it is no time to panic and do something like be competitive ....it is just too soon...... Again, I would like to see Broeser and Virtanen sent down until the trade deadline, and feel some success, and not feel the frustration that much be brewing with in the power play units........ It will simply just take time. Agree. Good post. I think Sven has probably more skill and speed than anyone else on the team. Love to see him on PP1 What about Boeser for a sniper and Bo for net screen ? Canucks don't seem to have a lot of pure goal scorers right now LOL. Heh, could not be any worse than putting 2 slow skaters like Hank and Danny on PP1 every time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 10 hours ago, aGENT said: How exactly are they hurting it? We do need to field a team and despite what some people think, the kids who are actually developed enough to be playing up here, are. The one's who aren't, are developing in Utica where they should be. It's the entire reason the team bought an AHL franchise! And as those kids become ready and injuries open up spots for them to be tested for their readiness, we slowly move vets out for further rebuild assets. It's really not a complicated concept. If we signed young players 3 years ago they would be ready now. That was the point. Signing older players 3 ears ago didn’t do anything at all but delay the rebuild. It isn’t complicated I agree... 1+1=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 No longer time to panic. We had a good game. Our backup is now a #1 and our saviour Boeser is going to score 60 points. Stay calm and bandwagon on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, canucksnihilist said: If we signed young players 3 years ago they would be ready now. That was the point. Signing older players 3 ears ago didn’t do anything at all but delay the rebuild. It isn’t complicated I agree... 1+1=2 Other than college free agents and undrafted guys, most of whom don't end up being impact, top 6 F or top 4 D, you can't sign 'young players'. Hasn't delayed a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 10 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: I know you added a caveat to this statement but this is one of the things I get upset about is that the NHL has changed what .500 means and that some fans are drinking that kool aid. 2014 only 5 teams were not at .500 2015 only 6 teams 2016 only 8 teams Ever since the introduction of the loser point being .500 in points is usually the bottom 5 or 6 teams. Not an indication of status. A good sales item for the casual fan or in the states where being .500 still really means something like being in the middle of the pact. On the injury front, sure it looked worse than it was and certainly was sold that way, Of the huge amount of man games lost a significant number of those were to players not making an impact, Chaput - 2 games, Cramarossa - 10 games, Dorsett - 69 games, Rodin - 73 games, Skille - 21 games, Menga - 16 games, these players were not what you would consider impact players or true difference makers but they account for almost half the total man games lost, which would drop the Nucks from the 2nd most to below the average for all the teams, just Rodin alone drops the team down 8 spots. There were impact players that missed a lot of games but not more than other teams, Tanev - 29 games, Edler - 14 games, Hansen - 33 games, Hutton - 11 games, Baerstchi - 13 games, Granlund - 13 games, Sedins - 0 games, Eriksson - 17 games, Guddy - 52 games. The worst year for injuries for the Canucks was 2013/2014 year, that year more core players lost more games than in the history of the team by a large margin, that year between the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Tanev, Edler, Santorelli, they lost over 160 games to injury. Out of shape, okay but Big T forced himself back into shape within a couple of weeks and his ice time never reflected whether he was in shape or not, it didn't reflect anything coherent at all. even if we draft tenth overall il still be happy if we an beat oilers sens means we can beat a few other teams so we arent coyotes who this yr are a guaranteed win like avs last yr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 13 hours ago, GritGrinder said: Its almost like apples and oranges trying to compare the 80's to today in terms of deployment. There are PP/PK "specialists" way moreso now than the Oilers heyday. Sather's first 2 forwards out for every PK were Gretzky and Kurri in the 80's, you throw Coffey in there and they were trying to generate offense even while shorthanded. Fair point, I could have used other examples. That said I think that I made the point that the twins weren’t sheltered. We had the best defensive forwards in the game minus Bergeron so why have the twins play to their weakness, when they were leading the league in points and killing it on the PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 5 hours ago, canuktravella said: even if we draft tenth overall il still be happy if we an beat oilers sens means we can beat a few other teams so we arent coyotes who this yr are a guaranteed win like avs last yr They need a goalie. BAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 11 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Told ya all...not a time to panic.......... But now we have a goalie controversy ......boy, oh boy, oh boy! Only in Vancouver can will any time a backup goalie plays one good game make it a "controversy". Sekeres, Pratt, and the other bottom-feeders are literally salivating at all the lemmings they're going to rile up with the latest induced drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 10 hours ago, aGENT said: Other than college free agents and undrafted guys, most of whom don't end up being impact, top 6 F or top 4 D, you can't sign 'young players'. Hasn't delayed a thing. Ok ok I’ll try to be positive. But you can trade for them like we did last year at the deadline... we could have been doing that for a few years already no delay - ok let’s say you are right - It’s going to take a while though;). On the bright side it looks like Boeser is the real deal - fingers crossed.... just need a few more like him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said: Only in Vancouver can will any time a backup goalie plays one good game make it a "controversy". Sekeres, Pratt, and the other bottom-feeders are literally salivating at all the lemmings they're going to rile up with the latest induced drama. Hi Hutt I hope you know I was only kidding.......... Markstrom has played some great games and does not deserved having said in public and it should take sometime before that would be a question Nilsson had a very consistent 1st game, if he were to continually out play opposing goalies and show that he could handle the #1 responsibilities Then he might cause that controversy This is something all CDC should hope and pray for.......but we aren't there yet! But it would be a good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said: Ok ok I’ll try to be positive. But you can trade for them like we did last year at the deadline... we could have been doing that for a few years already no delay - ok let’s say you are right - It’s going to take a while though;). On the bright side it looks like Boeser is the real deal - fingers crossed.... just need a few more like him We have traded for a few picks/prospects. We honestly didn't have much to sell (especially while still fielding an NHL team). And especially given the immovable nature of the twins. Pretty much all that's left that theoretically 'could' have been moved is Edler (with a NTC) and Tanev from the previous core. And we can still move them if we so choose in the coming seasons (and they waive). The rebuild isn't over yet, so it seems premature to lament what could have been...when it can still be. Sure it's going to take a while. This management has only had a few years to replenish a basically empty prospect pool and short of lotto picks and a few lucky draft choices, most players take 2-4+ years to develop. They don't just magically become NHL players overnight. We're only now just starting to get the first wave of prospects this management group assembled (Virtanen and Boeser). Over the next 2-4 years, at varying developmental speeds, we should see some mix of Demko, Gaudette, Brisebois, Juolevi, Lockwood, McKenzie, Pettersson, Lind, Gadjovich, DiPietro etc hopefully make the team (though some will likely falter) as well as a couple surprises likely (maybe a McEneny, Palmu, Rathbone, Zhukenov etc). Then there'll be another couple likely top 10 picks and early 2nd's 3rd etc in the next couple years to add to them as well as guys we've already traded for like Goldobin and Dahlen, signings like Stecher, Chatfield etc. And guess what?! As ALL these guys come online and mature in to full time NHL'ers, we'll eventually be able to trade some of the guys like: Vanek, Baer, Hutton, Dorsett, Edler, MDZ, Gagner, Tanev, Nilsson, Markstrom Sutter etc for other futures (picks, prospects) to keep the rebuild rolling. We're not stuck where we are today. It's not a static, finished product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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