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The BC proportional representation thread - 2018 referendum edition


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55 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

How can the NDP be voted in for regions that completely rely on the resource sector? 

Hard to say... and it might be the Green balance that prevents resource development. I'm more concerned with everyone outside of the Lower Mainland feeling like they have been shut out of any relevance to the political system with this 50%+1 thing that the NDP seem to love. Its the same mistake Mulcair made with his commentary on Quebec separation. 

 

Its really hard to justify not considering regional issues in the PR vote imo, if regions don't matter why have ridings at all?

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34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

true but the same thing could happen with the Green-DP coalition under the current system. 

True. I'm all for electoral reform anyways.

 

I'm not sure how they manage to accomplish it without adding ridings though. But I'm no politician 

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1 hour ago, luckylager said:

True. I'm all for electoral reform anyways.

 

I'm not sure how they manage to accomplish it without adding ridings though. But I'm no politician 

usually its something like lower the number of existing ridings and then add some "virtual" ones. So here it will probably be something like a reduction to 75 seats and 25 party-based seats to get the results as close as possible to the voting percentages. 

 

I'm ok with some form of PR, but just want it to be done in a way that doesn't alienate 1/2 the province. 

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26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

usually its something like lower the number of existing ridings and then add some "virtual" ones. So here it will probably be something like a reduction to 75 seats and 25 party-based seats to get the results as close as possible to the voting percentages. 

 

I'm ok with some form of PR, but just want it to be done in a way that doesn't alienate 1/2 the province. 

Ok. But why should any one vote carry more weight than another?

 

Just because someone's chosen to live in the bush doesn't mean they should have more say.

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53 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

usually its something like lower the number of existing ridings and then add some "virtual" ones. So here it will probably be something like a reduction to 75 seats and 25 party-based seats to get the results as close as possible to the voting percentages. 

 

I'm ok with some form of PR, but just want it to be done in a way that doesn't alienate 1/2 the province. 

much like the west feels alienated by the feds  the north has always felt left out provincially eg. if on march 22 06 the queen of the north doesn't SINK, we would still have the QPR and the queen of the north , back then the endbridge discussion was just getting started, opposition to it hadn't even happened ,the sinking of the north coincided with oil and gas talks  as well as container  port expansion.   all eyes shifted north. but within the first week the ndp gets in petronas waves goodbye,  bad global markets , talks with the local native bands not going so good , but more importantly petronas said  since the ndp would do everything in their power to see the project stopped  they said see ya ltr,  the ndp underestimated the level of support all the lng proposals had ,do they care?  they proved overwhelmingly how much they care about the north ,and it only took 1 week in power.

 

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4 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

How can the NDP be voted in for regions that completely rely on the resource sector? 

Perhaps people that rely on the resource sector believe that people should make a good living for extracting said resources?

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1 hour ago, luckylager said:

Ok. But why should any one vote carry more weight than another?

 

Just because someone's chosen to live in the bush doesn't mean they should have more say.

Not sure its "more" just "some". Most governments make some attempts to deal with regional differences. Thats what Senates are for in the US and Canada. Or ridings in provinces. If it was all majority rule simply by base numbers the north e.g., would never, ever have a say in anything. You could argue living in Vancouver gives you more say. 

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43 minutes ago, chon derry said:

much like the west feels alienated by the feds  the north has always felt left out provincially eg. if on march 22 06 the queen of the north doesn't SINK, we would still have the QPR and the queen of the north , back then the endbridge discussion was just getting started, opposition to it hadn't even happened ,the sinking of the north coincided with oil and gas talks  as well as container  port expansion.   all eyes shifted north. but within the first week the ndp gets in petronas waves goodbye,  bad global markets , talks with the local native bands not going so good , but more importantly petronas said  since the ndp would do everything in their power to see the project stopped  they said see ya ltr,  the ndp underestimated the level of support all the lng proposals had ,do they care?  they proved overwhelmingly how much they care about the north ,and it only took 1 week in power.

 

so how is it going to play out in the North BC if the lower mainland forces PR on you?

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Not sure its "more" just "some". Most governments make some attempts to deal with regional differences. Thats what Senates are for in the US and Canada. Or ridings in provinces. If it was all majority rule simply by base numbers the north e.g., would never, ever have a say in anything. You could argue living in Vancouver gives you more say. 

How? One MLA = one vote in the leg.

One MLA represents a 25000 person riding(for example), another MLA represtents 75000 people.

 

Tell me whose vote matters more, or which individuals have "more say"under our current structure.

 

The north would have a say, an equal say based on the population.

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16 minutes ago, luckylager said:

How? One MLA = one vote in the leg.

One MLA represents a 25000 person riding(for example), another MLA represtents 75000 people.

 

Tell me whose vote matters more, or which individuals have "more say"under our current structure.

 

The north would have a say, an equal say based on the population.

But for the referendum vote itself, its geographically unfair. Whats so wrong with needing a majority of ridings voting for it? 50%+1 and 44 ridings preserves geographic fairness in the vote to change our system. 

 

We don't live in some uniformly distributed grid there are all kinds of social, political and resource differences, so to just ignore all that and say the referendum will be decided by population numbers alone is really unfair to anyone living outside of the lower mainland where we know there is large support for PR. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

so how is it going to play out in the North BC if the lower mainland forces PR on you?

historically the lower mainland was the beneficiary of all the rest of bc,s resources ,forestry, fishing ,mining, not so much the case anymore. as for here in Rupert our mla Jennifer rice nobody really knows her. apperantly her girl friend or wife or whatev doesn't like it here so they don't live here ,rice herself has been around maybe 10 years she doesn't really typify what it is to be a  hardened grizzeled north coaster, in fact shes the exact opposite   she,s kind of like a tourist  she doesn't know anything about the north except current events.i believe  to represent an area you should have been around a little longer than she has.     bottom line already really bad representation.! I guess it could get worse with this  pr thing ,unless it ousts her in the process.     can you tell I hate her fricken guts? and horgan can burst into flames for all I care.  rich coleman spent a lot of time here working on all the proposals ,and it seems Horgan cant tear it all down fast enough, and then theres the site c which if he's sucsessful at stopping we'll pay dearly for that , bc's trump equivalent. 

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34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

 

We don't live in some uniformly distributed grid there are all kinds of social, political and resource differences, so to just ignore all that and say the referendum will be decided by population numbers alone is really unfair to anyone living outside of the lower mainland where we know there is large support for PR. 

 

 

The rage of social and economic issues in BC is as vast as the land.

 

It's a tough issue, glad it's not my job. 

 

I will be voting yes for proportional representation. 

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9 minutes ago, luckylager said:

if that majority of ridings can constitute 50.01% of the total vote...

that can happen. I just think by not including a simple majority of ridings too this thing is destined for disaster. I don't think we need to set the bar at 60% of all voters AND ridings like the Liberals did, but 50% should be an achievable threshold if most people want PR. 

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On 24/10/2017 at 2:12 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

that can happen. I just think by not including a simple majority of ridings too this thing is destined for disaster. I don't think we need to set the bar at 60% of all voters AND ridings like the Liberals did, but 50% should be an achievable threshold if most people want PR. 

I'm biased though. I live in Victoria 

 

Nothing against the fine people of the rest of BC. Except smug vancouverites!! Lol

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4 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I'm based though. I live in Victoria 

 

Nothing against the fine people of the rest of BC. Except smug vancouverites!! Lol

yah everyone hates us, and I'm not even from here. 

 

Its going to be an interesting problem for Horgoweaver to solve. If they exclude the other regions (or be perceived to be doing that) then they will alienate a big part of the province. They'd be excluding regional issues from the PR decision, but then expect rural BC to just trust them on a new system. Good luck with that. 

 

Its also a long time between now and the next election, and just a few by-eletions can take power away from them so if they piss off the wrong ridings with this approach they may just lose power over it. Fun times in BC.

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18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yah everyone hates us, and I'm not even from here. 

 

Its going to be an interesting problem for Horgoweaver to solve. If they exclude the other regions (or be perceived to be doing that) then they will alienate a big part of the province. They'd be excluding regional issues from the PR decision, but then expect rural BC to just trust them on a new system. Good luck with that. 

 

Its also a long time between now and the next election, and just a few by-eletions can take power away from them so if they piss off the wrong ridings with this approach they may just lose power over it. Fun times in BC.

Haha, Horgoweaver.. Lol

 

Islanders are used to being alienated and not represented appropriately at the Legislature. Guess Horgoweaver are just used to alienation one way or another.

 

Glad it's not my job.

 

I'm just an "Island Hippy", kinda trolling with the "smug vancouverites" comment to suck up to our friends up north, "rural rednecks".

 

Big province, lots of awesome yet very different people. 

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2 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Haha, Horgoweaver.. Lol

 

Islanders are used to being alienated and not represented appropriately at the Legislature. Guess Horgoweaver are just used to alienation one way or another.

 

Glad it's not my job.

 

I'm just an "Island Hippy", kinda trolling with the "smug vancouverites" comment to suck up to our friends up north, "rural rednecks".

 

Big province, lots of awesome yet very different people. 

Thats OK, I assume you meant those West side snobs, not us East Van folks. 

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