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The two year plan (discussion)


J.I.A.H.N

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Just now, Boudrias said:

According to the gang on 1040 Gudbranson is playing 'sheltered' TOI! Like you I have watched most games and would argue at times Gudbranson has been dominating. No idea what his contract will be. 

That is a desperate gang trying to hold on to their waning listenership, aka Wankers.

 

I agree on Gudbranson. While many of the clowns in Vancouver would whip out their calculators to explain away why the Canucks have one of the lowest GAA in the league, part of that can be contributed to Gudbranson's presence being felt and the majority of the shots being made from the perimeter, as crashing the crease is now a fool's errand when he's present.

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23 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

As far as I know, Evander still lives in Vancouver during the offseason. He probably visits Vegas, but I've not heard of him taking permanent residence there.

He has penthouses in Vegas, LA, and Vancouver. So column A, column B. 

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Reading some of your comments about Gudbranson, sort of brought me to thinking about team toughess and responses...........

 

I want a talented team, with snarl..........I see that starting to build in....................

 

Gudbranson

Dorsett

Virtanen

MDZ

Horvat

 

Gadjovich

MacEwen

Gaudette

Lockwood

 

and hopefully Evander Kane......all of this should be more than enough to answer a playoff round

 

Another question that has arose, from your posts, is how has Gudbranson's partners corsi declined or improved, when they have played with him compared to when they have not......sorry not a big analytics guy!

 

The other thing that should be pointed out is, with our team defense being 3rd best in the league, where has Gudbranson added to this with other players playing with more confidence, even when not playing with him, just knowing he's around.....he kind of reminds me of a Big White.....kind of slowly hovers around and then if trouble happens strikes fast and furiously....we have not had this for a long time, and I think everyone would acknowledge that........it is a rare ability, and one that is needed.......in todays NHL, you can't have a enforcer that can't play hockey.......Guddy has proven he can and does........call it intangibles

 

I think Guddy is an essential part of our teams addition of young prospects.....aka confidence and protection.....I put great importance to this in the following years

 

As for the Sedin's........I love them and I don't see them contributing enough to keep them on the team after this year.....sorry!

 

 

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Players, coaches, GMs come and go...the crest remains and this is what the fan cheers for when the player comes and when the player goes.

The crest in front of the jersey remains.

 

The Sedins have worn the crest well and have helped this team become the best in the league for many years; the reality is the team is not the best anymore because the player that remains is not as good. For the love of the crest in front of the jersey, it is time to bring in new players and thank the ones that go by raising their jerseys to the rafters.

 

Looking forward to when the rebuild truly starts.

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1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Gudbranson's defensive play is sound. I've watched every game this season, and he makes the calm, sound play out of the zone every time, and is extremely effective in getting the puck out of the zone without coughing it up to a forechecker.

 

He's had quite a few shots on goal in the last few games, but hasn't had much luck in getting them through, but he's shooting far more than he has before.

 

What I've noticed is that the majority of analytics articles aren't as contextual as they could be and look to conflate numbers to serve a narrative, rather than offering unbiased statistical information. Look no further than the embittered asshole bloggers at Canucks Army (Vanessa Jang excluded) to see how derisive some analytical approaches are.

 

The way I see it, Gudbranson is a keeper. He is a smart player, who doesn't play risky. He uses his size to shield the puck and remind the opposing team that they are in hostile territory. The psychological advantage that a player like Gudbranson brings is extremely effective. He injects fear into the opposition, whilst lessening it in his teammates. Jannik Hansen mentioned that having a player like Gudbranson helps to make everyone on the ice with him play larger than they are, because they know they are safe to do so.

 

Corsi doesn't measure confidence in a player, nor does it measure apprehensiveness in the opposition, but those factors do affect the flow and momentum of a game. I remember when Lucic played with the Kings, how he and his linemates would storm into the Canucks zone and staple both defensemen to the boards, and the third forward would scoop up the loose puck unabated, and have all kinds of time, with very little resistance, to score.

 

Keep in mind that Gudbranson's not cruising his zone looking for a big hit, or a fight. He plays a disciplined team game. If he can make the hit without giving up his position, he'll do so. And he'll stand up for his teammates in a way that no other Canuck has. Yes Bieksa is a tough hombre, but his size made his overall physicality (and occasional pugilism) a moot point against the larger, more aggressive forwards. Gudbranson has that same fearlessness, but is much larger and arguably tougher than Bieksa, and has a decent set of wheels as well.

 

I don't think Gudbranson should be getting 6x6 though, unless he starts generating significant enough offense to warrant it. His solid defensive play and physicality do warrant $4.5M a season though.

 

there's an analysis out today that backs up the reason not to worry about the Corsi issue (its a crap stat for D but thats a different thread). Guddy suppresses quality chances. Guddy and MDZ give up a lot of shots but if they aren't quality chances and you get the opportunity for hits thats the job he's there to do. 

 

"They seem to legitimately limit the shot quality of their opponents as compared to their corsi. Here’s the issue: they give up so many shot attempts against that their xGA is still very, very high. They also have a lower xGF than you would expect from their corsi. If you were looking for proof that Gudbranson limits shot quality against with his defensive play, this would support that argument. But when you’re giving up that many shot attempts, the quality of those shot attempts starts to matter less and less."

 

http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/numbers-never-lie-why-granlund-sutter-and-dorsett-are-a-better-line-than-you-might-expect-1.23083293

 

 

 

 

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Interesting.  3  changes to your plan i would like to see. 

 

How about we move Hank and Danny this year at the TDL     ( for a 1st and a 2nd )  

How about we move Dorset this year at the TDL  ( this is in the sell assets that have inflated value ) for a 2nd or a Turd 

How about we do not ever sign Evander Kane as he  is probably not the kind of guy we want on our club. ?  

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19 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Interesting.  3  changes to your plan i would like to see. 

 

How about we move Hank and Danny this year at the TDL     ( for a 1st and a 2nd )  

How about we move Dorset this year at the TDL  ( this is in the sell assets that have inflated value ) for a 2nd or a Turd 

How about we do not ever sign Evander Kane as he  is probably not the kind of guy we want on our club. ?  

I would like to see the team that gives up a 1st and 2nd for the death rattle of the Sedins. 

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   A healthy well behaved Evander Kane would be a great fit for the Canucks. Unfortunately he has a long history of injuries which makes it unlikely he can stay fit especially with west coast team travel syndrome. I admire the Sedins and their accomplishments but the last two seasons have felt like watching a boxer staying in the game too long and slowly going punchy. So this should be their last year allowing them to retire with dignity before it gets even harder to watch them in decline.

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If Pettersson is expected to join the team next year, I would really like to see a big,tough LW with good hockey IQ, can score and has attitude.

 

I can't see Kane signing here, because his asking price would be way to high and I think he would rather sign elsewhere.

 

I am hoping that at some point, I hope that Gadjovich will be able to ride shotgun for Pettersson, just as he has done for Suzuki in Owen Sound.  Until then, I'm wondering if a player like Rychel can be snatched from the Leafs.  He doesn't seem to fit with the leafs, but he does have those power forward aspects to his game.  He's big, can score, skates well, will drop the gloves and has an edge to his game.  His main criticism is inconsistency and defensive lapses.  Haven't we heard that before?

 

Anyways, I don't think it  would take much to get him from the leafs.  Low risk, high reward. 

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8 hours ago, kloubek said:

Come on.  They are looking SO slow out there, and aren't even playing that bang-bang quick-move intuitive play they used to.  I'd love to see them salvage their season, but it sure looks to me like this could and should be their last season.

Here's a question. No doubt they are no longer premier players let alone first liners. How are they if they were to be our 3rd line. Would they make our team better or worse? 

These guys are team guys and if they know the nucks have a better chance winning the cup with them being 3rd liners making 3rd line money, they'll do it. Let's not be so quick to run them out of town just because they are no longer stars. 

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1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

Here's a question. No doubt they are no longer premier players let alone first liners. How are they if they were to be our 3rd line. Would they make our team better or worse? 

These guys are team guys and if they know the nucks have a better chance winning the cup with them being 3rd liners making 3rd line money, they'll do it. Let's not be so quick to run them out of town just because they are no longer stars. 

You know... I have no problem with them getting ice time in proportion with their current ability, and wouldn't be completely against them staying on for another year or two at minimal pay.  

 

Its just that I feel we have a very strong middle 6 prospect pool and it will be unfortunate to see capable young guys not getting an opportunity as a result.

 

Plus I imagine that playing so few minutes and seeing that dramatically reduced ability from yourself every night ought to be a huge focus and ego killer.  If they seek another contract then their selflessness and loyalty know no bounds.

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7 minutes ago, kloubek said:

You know... I have no problem with them getting ice time in proportion with their current ability, and wouldn't be completely against them staying on for another year or two at minimal pay.  

 

Its just that I feel we have a very strong middle 6 prospect pool and it will be unfortunate to see capable young guys not getting an opportunity as a result.

 

Plus I imagine that playing so few minutes and seeing that dramatically reduced ability from yourself every night ought to be a huge focus and ego killer.  If they seek another contract then their selflessness and loyalty know no bounds.

I think the goal of the organization is to ice the best roster possible when it's time to contend for a cup. 

If the Sedins can outplay our 3rd line prospects  at that point in time and do it for near the same level of pay, I think that's them being selfless. 

Why wouldn't you ice the best possible team if you can? 

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5 hours ago, Green Building said:

I know I'm not alone in being happy for our management team not trading for him back when all the rumours surfaced, but I sure as hell welcome him as a FA addition. For me, aside from where Tavares goes he's the most interesting FA next summer.

Tavares, if available and if he remotely wants to come here should be a huge target by Benning.  Franchise players rarely come into UFA and would immediately get us back to a playoff team and an almost certain contender in 2-3 years.

 

Kane is a 2nd line guy.  A really good and complete 2nd line guy. And I would have no issues with Benning persuing him.  But he does come with likely drama, potential distraction, and wont likely produce at his current contract year rate. So I have reservations... especially if he wants a huge payday.

 

We really arent in need for 2md line guys anyway.  We have plenty.  We need truly elite talent.

 

Like Tavares.  :)

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4 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Tavares, if available and if he remotely wants to come here should be a huge target by Benning.  Franchise players rarely come into UFA and would immediately get us back to a playoff team and an almost certain contender in 2-3 years.

 

Kane is a 2nd line guy.  A really good and complete 2nd line guy. And I would have no issues with Benning persuing him.  But he does come with likely drama, potential distraction, and wont likely produce at his current contract year rate. So I have reservations... especially if he wants a huge payday.

 

We really arent in need for 2md line guys anyway.  We have plenty.  We need truly elite talent.

 

Like Tavares.  :)

Yeah, nothing but wishful thinking to believe we have even the slightest chance of signing Tavares. That doesn't bother me, and I'm not too worried about Kane either. I didn't want to cough anything up for him via trade but would happy to sign him as a FA. He's playing pretty good, and if he can fit in the lineup somewhere he would do good things for our entertainment value and our stats, even if it's on the 2nd line.

 

The cap thing gets interesting pretty quickly if we sign him and re-sign Gudbranson.

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2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think the goal of the organization is to ice the best roster possible when it's time to contend for a cup. 

If the Sedins can outplay our 3rd line prospects  at that point in time and do it for near the same level of pay, I think that's them being selfless. 

Why wouldn't you ice the best possible team if you can? 

When its time to contend, I agree completely.

 

Here's the problem: We arent contenders.  We wont be next year either.  I see our direction and I'm pleased with the building of this team but until our prospects get a couple of years under their belt they aren't going to be contributing significantly (one or two possible exceptions), and especially if they aren't given an opportunity to play in the NHL when they're ready.

 

We would need the addition of one or perhaps even two true stars on this team to be considered a contender next year with what we do and will have, so unless all the top ufas for the next couple of years sign with us I just can't see why the Sedins would bother. 

 

I hope they hand over the team before they are entirely considered has-beens.  They deserve a dignified exit.

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10 hours ago, gregthehockeynut said:

   A healthy well behaved Evander Kane would be a great fit for the Canucks. Unfortunately he has a long history of injuries which makes it unlikely he can stay fit especially with west coast team travel syndrome. I admire the Sedins and their accomplishments but the last two seasons have felt like watching a boxer staying in the game too long and slowly going punchy. So this should be their last year allowing them to retire with dignity before it gets even harder to watch them in decline.

One of the things imo that happens when you are on the down slope is an inability to process a situation.

 

The Sedins are illustrating that almost on a nightly basis. Even Hank's decision to stay out in the 3 on 3 was an error of judgement and that is why I question people who say "they will know when it's time" Well Hank didn't know when it was time to get off the ice and get a fresh replacement on and that was worrying.

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