Thank you Henrik and Daniel (Discussion)

[Bo fan]

5 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

We just have to get this going somehow....

so - someone contact Trevor Linden and get him on it - isn't he the one who got this group coming in on occasion? Maybe I have that wrong - not to sure.

So who on this forum has a connection to Trevor or Jim or the  L.....group?

 

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, FireGillis said:

Love the sedins, but it's time.  I thought they might sign one more year on a cheap deal, but with the way the season is going, I think they will retire. I don't think they want to come back and play even a lesser role than dorsett.  I expected the sedins to have their minutes cut this year, but this year has been drastic and unexpected.  I don't think they enjoy playing 2 mins a period like they do on some nights.

"FireGillis"

 

"Enjoy The Tank"

 

"Proud member"

I'm not sure you realize that some play (watch) for the sheer love of the game.  These guys love the game, and playing at all is better than not playing.  But, they'll decide that and I support them in their decision either way.

If there's one thing these two have shown is their level of professionalism.  They may not "like" something, but they graciously accept things.  I expect their waning TOI as part of that.

Besides, if you're rallying for a tank I'd prefer the young guys have mentors to help keep it in check if they do.  Not just have them absorb all of that losing you're rallying for all on their own.  It would likely negatively impact their confidence and mental game. 

 

[FireGillis]

52 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

"Enjoy The Tank"

 

"Proud member"
 

Damn right, I'm a proud member of tank nation because like a true fan, I care about the future of this team and want to see sustained long term success.  Tanking works and without a successful tank last year we wouldn't have gotten pettersson and lind.  Hoping for another top 5 pick this year or by some miracle dahlin, but it's looking like it's going to be a harder tank year.  I'll never apologize for wanting what's best for this team long term.  Problem is anti tankers have no long term vision and just want short term success even if it's not sustainable long term.  We need as many high end prospects as we can get if we want to compete for a cup again. 

 

2020 is the year I picked out to re-evaluate if I should still be on team tank.  By then we should have a better idea on how our prospects are turning out and how realistic it is to start thinking about winning and the playoffs.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, FireGillis said:

Damn right, I'm a proud member of tank nation because like a true fan, I care about the future of this team and want to see sustained long term success.  Tanking works and without a successful tank last year we wouldn't have gotten pettersson and lind.  Hoping for another top 5 pick this year or by some miracle dahlin, but it's looking like it's going to be a harder tank year.  I'll never apologize for wanting what's best for this team long term.  Problem is anti tankers have no long term vision and just want short term success even if it's not sustainable long term.  We need as many high end prospects as we can get if we want to compete for a cup again.

You are, OF COURSE, 110% correct.  We don’t want older players carrying us to mediocrity.  We want young guys, with a few vets sprinkled in, all coming together around the same to for a sustainable elite roster.  We still need a couple more pieces, elite please, so when the rebuild has it’s young core, that core is friggin’ Cup level.  

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, FireGillis said:

 because like a true fan

 

Let me break this down: 

 

"True fan".  Couldn't care less about the team in the here and now.  Don't care or believe.  Will pass/opt out and re evaluate in a few years.    Lose for the possibility of getting a good pick that, ultimately, depends on the luck of the lottery draw THEN on that pick panning out.  Want the team to go up in flames for the "future" and nothing guaranteed (despite your speaking like it is).

 

True fan B:  Goes to/watches the games with the hope for the team to do well, rallies behind them and hopes for the future but also realizes anything can happen and the future is now.  Doesn't believe that "losing" for the sake of possibly winning later makes sense.  Try to do both and let the chips fall where they will.

 

I don't cheer for "winning", I cheer for my teamTO win.   And, sure, the odds favour getting a blue chip prospect but there are diamonds in the rough that will reveal that over time.  Except, if they try to lose.

 

There is no map for guaranteed long term success and you've even admitted that (see below)...the Oilers should remind you of how much more is involved.  Get a group of hard working guys who believe in not only themselves, but each other and who knows how far that can go.  Unless you give up before you even try.  Many gave up on the Sedins before they had a chance to "reveal" what they were about.  Patience is required for long term success, there is no just add water (prospects), stir and grow a champion.  Chemistry, leadership, work ethic are all vital components in building champions.  Names on paper have to work together...no I in team stuff.  So you want to "add" some"one" or two...I'd prefer a team that concentrates on winning together and practices that.  Not "wait and see" who can win for us down the road.

And wait wait wait what?

 

Quote

2020 is the year I picked out to re-evaluate if I should still be on team tank.  By then we should have a better idea on how our prospects are turning out and how realistic it is to start thinking about winning and the playoffs.

Seems like you're not fully convinced?  You speak of the only surefire road to long term success as "tanking" but have to re evaluate down the road??  To see if it's realistic?  Oh, so it isn't as cut and dry as "just do it" then?  But we should buy in?  You pretty much just supported my argument right there.  If team tank was the surefire way, you wouldn't have to do an assessment because if it didn't work, then it certainly isn't what you've promoted it as.

[Erik Karlsson]

How sick would it be to see them traded to Ottawa and win a cup with Burrows and fellow Swede Karlsson.

[spook007]

3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Let me break this down: 

 

"True fan".  Couldn't care less about the team in the here and now.  Don't care or believe.  Lose for the possibility of getting a good pick that, ultimately, depends on the luck of the lottery draw THEN on that pick panning out.  Want the team to go up in flames for the "future" and nothing guaranteed (despite your speaking like it is).

 

True fan B:  Goes to the games, hopes for the team to do well, rallies behind them and hopes for the future but also realizes anything can happen and the future is now.  Doesn't believe that "losing" for the sake of possibly winning later makes sense.  Try to do both and let the chips fall where they will.

 

I don't cheer for "winning", I cheer for my team.   And, sure, the odds favour getting a blue chip prospect but there are diamonds in the rough that will reveal that over time.  Except, if they try to lose.

Love it...

And then there is True fan C:

 

Very close to Fan B. Can't go to games as fan lives too far away, but instead gets up 2-3am in the morning to follow the team.

Nobody gets up to watch anything at that time hoping for anything else than a victory, or even better a good performance. 

But regardless of results and performances the fan still follows the team in thick and thin. Also believe in let the chips fall as the may fall... 

[Ghostsof1915]

31 minutes ago, Erik Karlsson said:

How sick would it be to see them traded to Ottawa and win a cup with Burrows and fellow Swede Karlsson.

Might as well trade Edler while we're at it. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

Let me break this down: 

 

"True fan".  Couldn't care less about the team in the here and now.  Don't care or believe.  Will pass/opt out and re evaluate in a few years.    Lose for the possibility of getting a good pick that, ultimately, depends on the luck of the lottery draw THEN on that pick panning out.  Want the team to go up in flames for the "future" and nothing guaranteed (despite your speaking like it is).

 

True fan B:  Goes to the games, hopes for the team to do well, rallies behind them and hopes for the future but also realizes anything can happen and the future is now.  Doesn't believe that "losing" for the sake of possibly winning later makes sense.  Try to do both and let the chips fall where they will.

 

I don't cheer for "winning", I cheer for my teamTO win.   And, sure, the odds favour getting a blue chip prospect but there are diamonds in the rough that will reveal that over time.  Except, if they try to lose.

 

There is no map for guaranteed long term success and you've even admitted that (see below)...the Oilers should remind you of how much more is involved.  Get a group of hard working guys who believe in not only themselves, but each other and who knows how far that can go.  Unless you give up before you even try.  Many gave up on the Sedins before they had a chance to "reveal" what they were about.  Patience is required for long term success, there is no just add water (prospects), stir and grow a champion.  Chemistry, leadership, work ethic are all vital components in building champions.  Names on paper have to work together...no I in team stuff.  So you want to "add" some"one" or two...I'd prefer a team that concentrates on winning together and practices that.  Not "wait and see" who can win for us down the road.

And wait wait wait what?

 

Seems like you're not fully convinced?  You speak of the only surefire road to long term success as "tanking" but have to re evaluate down the road??  To see if it's realistic?  Oh, so it isn't as cut and dry as "just do it" then?  But we should buy in?  You pretty much just supported my argument right there.  If team tank was the surefire way, you wouldn't have to do an assessment because if it didn't work, then it certainly isn't what you've promoted it as.

I get your drift; there are many different types of fans.  True enough.  I wonder, though, if all these different types of fans want their team to win the Cup?  (I know I sure do.)  Now, where the groups differ is in the method of building that Cup team.  I certainly haven’t seen many Cup winners that don’t have at least one highly drafted elite player.  I don’t believe we have that player (s) yet, so getting the best odds at drafting as high as possible is important to me.  See, IMHAO, teams (like the Oilers) suffered for many years until they got McDavid.  No, they are not guaranteed a Cup with him.  However, without him (or elite level talent selected near the top of the draft) they have almost no chance of winning a Cup.  We need to stay at the bottom until we too get 1 or more of these guys.  Yes, during games, cheer wildly for us to win.  However between games accept it is best for our future chances at winning a Cup that losing is best.

[WHL rocks]

I want Dahlin. He's as dynamic on D as Mcdavid and Mathews are at C. 

 

I've been watching this team for 35  years. We've never won. I'd rather tank and get top end talent for 1 or 2 more years. I wanna see this team win a cup on my life. I'm willing to take couple more down years for future glory. 

[higgyfan]

28 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I get your drift; there are many different types of fans.  True enough.  I wonder, though, if all these different types of fans want their team to win the Cup?  (I know I sure do.)  Now, where the groups differ is in the method of building that Cup team.  I certainly haven’t seen many Cup winners that don’t have at least one highly drafted elite player.  I don’t believe we have that player (s) yet, so getting the best odds at drafting as high as possible is important to me.  See, IMHAO, teams (like the Oilers) suffered for many years until they got McDavid.  No, they are not guaranteed a Cup with him.  However, without him (or elite level talent selected near the top of the draft) they have almost no chance of winning a Cup.  We need to stay at the bottom until we too get 1 or more of these guys.  Yes, during games, cheer wildly for us to win.  However between games accept it is best for our future chances at winning a Cup that losing is best.

I agree with the 1st statement, as it is not only fun, but is good for the team.  The 2nd statement really doesn't change anything of consequence.  Certainly doesn't have any effect on the game or its outcome.

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

Coach Travis Green is doing a great job with the club so far this year.

 

Just a bit of advice for Coach Green.

 

Get JV18 in the lineup and play him 12-14 minutes  a game.   What about using JV18 on the PK ? 

 

What about sitting either Hank or Danny once every  7-8 games to keep them both healthy and fresh.... ?

Linden was sat often his last year on the Canucks.   

[canuck73_3]

15 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

I want Dahlin. He's as dynamic on D as Mcdavid and Mathews are at C. 

 

I've been watching this team for 35  years. We've never won. I'd rather tank and get top end talent for 1 or 2 more years. I wanna see this team win a cup on my life. I'm willing to take couple more down years for future glory. 

Tanking doesn't work anymore the teams that picked 1 and 2 and 3 finished   19th, 24th and 27th respectively.  Gutting the team and stunting prospects to end up picking 4th or 5th is not a risk worth taking. You could make a case for it 3/4 years ago but not anymore with the new draft lottery. 

[WHL rocks]

5 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Tanking doesn't work anymore the teams that picked 1 and 2 and 3 finished   19th, 24th and 27th respectively.  Gutting the team and stunting prospects to end up picking 4th or 5th is not a risk worth taking. You could make a case for it 3/4 years ago but not anymore with the new draft lottery. 

It always works. Just not as well as it did before. It's all about odds. The lower your ranking the higher the odds you get top pick. 

 

Have you been to Vegas?. Casino odds are tilted about 1 %. Look at the success. They make billions. Same goes with draft. Lower your position higher the odds you get top 3 pick. 

 

Did Horvat get stunted last year? Because we picked 5th and got Petterson. 

[kingofsurrey]

9 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Tanking doesn't work anymore the teams that picked 1 and 2 and 3 finished   19th, 24th and 27th respectively.  Gutting the team and stunting prospects to end up picking 4th or 5th is not a risk worth taking. You could make a case for it 3/4 years ago but not anymore with the new draft lottery. 

Looking a one years draft position is too small a sample size....

 

2016 draft 

 

1st went to 30th place team 

2nd went to 25th

3 rd to  27th 

[canuck73_3]

2 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

It always works. Just not as well as it did before. It's all about odds. The lower your ranking the higher the odds you get top pick. 

 

Have you been to Vegas?. Casino odds are tilted about 1 %. Look at the success. They make billions. Same goes with draft. Lower your position higher the odds you get top 3 pick. 

 

Did Horvat get stunted last year? Because we picked 5th and got Petterson. 

Horvat didn't get stunted because this team is not tanking it was a genuinely bad team.

 

it seems like team tank has no idea what they're actually supporting, tanking is what lead Edmonton and Columbus to a decade of suckage and futility. 

 

What Vancouver did last year was shelter the youth and let the Vets steer the ship and finish as it may. Then at the end of the season let the youth come in and run the show. 

 

That imo is the best course of action, sending out vets and going with players that aren't ready you end up like Columbus who are just finally starting to recover from terrible personnel decisions. 

 

 

[canuck73_3]

9 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Looking a one years draft position is too small a sample size....

 

2016 draft 

 

1st went to 30th place team 

2nd went to 25th

3 rd to  27th 

9 and ten years of Edmonton, Calgary and Columbus suckage says tanking doesn't work. 

 

What works is pairing good drafting with good player development. 

[Alflives]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

9 and ten years of Edmonton, Calgary and Columbus suckage says tanking doesn't work. 

 

What works is pairing good drafting with good player development. 

Which team wins a Cup without elite players (playing key roles) coming from the top of the draft?  I can think of the Bruins from 2011 as one.  Any others?  My point is, a team has almost no chance of winning a Cup without these high picks.  

[WHL rocks]

11 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Horvat didn't get stunted because this team is not tanking it was a genuinely bad team.

 

it seems like team tank has no idea what they're actually supporting, tanking is what lead Edmonton and Columbus to a decade of suckage and futility. 

 

What Vancouver did last year was shelter the youth and let the Vets steer the ship and finish as it may. Then at the end of the season let the youth come in and run the show. 

 

That imo is the best course of action, sending out vets and going with players that aren't ready you end up like Columbus who are just finally starting to recover from terrible personnel decisions. 

 

 

Not sure how old you are bit I've seen Canucks suck for decade(s). 

 

This team did tank. They sucked and traded off Hansen and Burrows. 

 

Not sure about your logic. You finish at bottom and you suck kids don't stunt. You finish at bottom you suck and you trade cpl veterans like Hansen and Burrows and kids dont stunt. I dont get it. 

 

Would Boesers game be stunted if we suck and trade a couple of vets on TDL?  But it won't if we suck and don't make a trade? 

 

We're going to be a bottom feeder by end if year no matter what. Let's get this playoff fantasy out if the way. It's best to get some assets back for some vets at TDL. Get higher odds for top 3 pick.. 

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

9 and ten years of Edmonton, Calgary and Columbus suckage says tanking doesn't work. 

 

What works is pairing good drafting with good player development. 

Calgary has a very strong team right now.  

 

I do agree on the importance of proper development for our prospects.  Good player development is critical.