D-Money Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Gudbranson's starting point in negotiations will likely be what Karl Alzner got last year: 5 years, $4.625 million, modified LNTC (7-team NTC). Alzner and Guddy have similar draft pedigree, similar styles of game, and similar criticisms from the analytics crowd over their actual value. However, Gudbranson is much younger. Also, last year there wasn't as much competition for free agents due to lack of cap space - but this year with the sizable cap increase, teams will be bidding higher than ever. Because of this, I don't see a way that Guddy takes anything less than $5 million, unless it is full term (7-8 years). Either way, that would be a contract I'd prefer the Canucks not to sign. I thought he'd be worth that when they traded for him, based on what he accomplished in Florida. However, his struggles to fit in since the trade, and how prone he has been to injury, do not bode well going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 13 hours ago, oldnews said: Tryamkin can skate though. Murray would make Luke Schenn look like a pmd. Gudbranson doesn't quite bring the fear factor Murray did, but he does keep other teams honest and I really think under Green he can become a very solid player if we can get him the right regular partner, maybe Pouliot? not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The first 2-3 weeks of January will be key. See how he comes back from his injury and also Jan 1 onward we can try to gauge his interest in returning via term and cap hit. If by mid to late January we arent on the same page regarding a contract extension, then yes Benning should look to move him. His size and physical presence is important but he has missed alot of time and shouldnt command a long term deal with much over a 4m cap hit imo. The best contract I would like to see us offer is 4yrs 4.25m per cap hit If he wants more term of $ than that we should move on. we can pay close to 5m for him, for us he has been injured and is very 1 dimensional. size and grit comes at a cost but not worth overpaying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 16 hours ago, VIC_CITY said: ...you do realize you're hands down the biggest troll on CDC. Agent gives you a run for your money at times... @aGENT is a good dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: Gudbranson doesn't quite bring the fear factor Murray did, but he does keep other teams honest and I really think under Green he can become a very solid player if we can get him the right regular partner, maybe Pouliot? not sure. Who was scared of Douglas Murray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: Gudbranson doesn't quite bring the fear factor Murray did, but he does keep other teams honest and I really think under Green he can become a very solid player if we can get him the right regular partner, maybe Pouliot? not sure. Im curious to the need of that in today’s game. People used to say the same thing about enforcers all the time and we’ve seen them slowly become a thing of the past. Teams need players to be able to provide more. Dorsett was a good example. Not only did he play physical and stand up for his teammates. He also was fast, a reliable checker and great on PK, as well as be able to chip in with the odd goal. Where guys like Tom sestito are no longer being counted on. We just got rid of a big intimidating D in pedan who we will likely be able to pick up off waivers next year. Honest question. If intimidating d like guddy are such a need, who are some comparables on other teams? I’d say mcNabb would be a good comparable. Only one year older, good skater, out of all D over 6’4” he leads in hits, blocked shots and even averages more fights per year than guddy. Vegas has him at 51% dzone starts. As well as averaging 20:00 min a game and he doesnt provide a lot of offense production. He just reuppsd with the knights for 4 years with a cap hit of 2.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said: Who was scared of Douglas Murray? After quite a few beers with the ubertap I became afraid of Douglas Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said: Who was scared of Douglas Murray? maybe I'm not remembering him correctly.... wasn't he feared for laying some big hits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Im curious to the need of that in today’s game. People used to say the same thing about enforcers all the time and we’ve seen them slowly become a thing of the past. Teams need players to be able to provide more. Dorsett was a good example. Not only did he play physical and stand up for his teammates. He also was fast, a reliable checker and great on PK, as well as be able to chip in with the odd goal. Where guys like Tom sestito are no longer being counted on. We just got rid of a big intimidating D in pedan who we will likely be able to pick up off waivers next year. Honest question. If intimidating d like guddy are such a need, who are some comparables on other teams? I’d say mcNabb would be a good comparable. Only one year older, good skater, out of all D over 6’4” he leads in hits, blocked shots and even averages more fights per year than guddy. Vegas has him at 51% dzone starts. As well as averaging 20:00 min a game and he doesnt provide a lot of offense production. He just reuppsd with the knights for 4 years with a cap hit of 2.5 million. Guddy isn't an "enforcer"in the classic sense. He's willing to drop the gloves, but finishing checks hard and clearing the crease are things we really need. Add to that the potential for a top 4 D, which I think he can become under Green and with the right partner and we could have a great player there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, coryberg said: While you are being honest you should add that you have never seen Douglas Murray play. Because one attribute really makes a huge difference, between the two. I already agreed, Murray wasn't the greatest skater, but he was decent enough (in his prime), to play 7 seasons in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said: Who was scared of Douglas Murray? Kesler, for one. Murray has laid out some of the biggest/toughest guys in the league including Bfygulien, Carcillo, Iginla, Phaneuf, Boyle, Clifford, Brown, amongst others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: Guddy isn't an "enforcer"in the classic sense. He's willing to drop the gloves, but finishing checks hard and clearing the crease are things we really need. Add to that the potential for a top 4 D, which I think he can become under Green and with the right partner and we could have a great player there. Sure but does being a need, mean you overpay just to keep. McNabb does all those things as well and currently plays top 4. He’s valued at 2.5 per year. If guddy demands 5+ do you pay him just to keep him? Where’s the tipping point where contract price is too great and a trade becomes more beneficial to us. If you consider that 22 games ago JB only valued guddy at a 3.5 knowing 100% that in less 9 months he would have to renegotiate again with him. This time with less bargaining power. Has his value gone up that much in the last 22 games? It would be hard to argue it has. So what is the top value we are willing to pay before we start seeing the type of return we can get. Based on what I think his trade value is, I’d cap it at 4.25 no more than 4 years. I’m currious to know what range other people would cap at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Another hockey guy re-iterating the same points I have made about Gudbranson and the value he brings nowadays compared with two years ago. Mike Johnson is more dubious than I am though that Gudbranson is going to get much in free agency.https://www.tsn.ca/radio/audio/johnson-nhl-is-changing-and-gudbranson-s-skills-are-less-impactful-1.950228 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Sure but does being a need, mean you overpay just to keep. McNabb does all those things as well and currently plays top 4. He’s valued at 2.5 per year. If guddy demands 5+ do you pay him just to keep him? Where’s the tipping point where contract price is too great and a trade becomes more beneficial to us. If you consider that 22 games ago JB only valued guddy at a 3.5 knowing 100% that in less 9 months he would have to renegotiate again with him. This time with less bargaining power. Has his value gone up that much in the last 22 games? It would be hard to argue it has. So what is the top value we are willing to pay before we start seeing the type of return we can get. Based on what I think his trade value is, I’d cap it at 4.25 no more than 4 years. I’m currious to know what range other people would cap at? well, that depends on where you think its ok to overpay, because every single team does, there's no perfect cap team. Even Toews and Kane will have a hard time justifying their salaries at some point. given how poor we've been on pushback I'd be OK with paying Guddy a bit more than book value, in part because there are fewer of these guys around. McNabb would be great but he's not available to us, Guddy might be. It also matters to me that Willie Mitchell thinks he's a guy you want around, so yes thats a lot to pay for intangibles but like i said we're going to overpay on some guys and I think this guy is a safe bet. Just my 2 cents tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I also like the Pouliot Gudbranson pairing Gives a good stay at home guy paired up with a player who likes to rush it up the ice Then a possible Juolevi Tanev pairing next year or year after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmy Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, that depends on where you think its ok to overpay, because every single team does, there's no perfect cap team. Even Toews and Kane will have a hard time justifying their salaries at some point. given how poor we've been on pushback I'd be OK with paying Guddy a bit more than book value, in part because there are fewer of these guys around. McNabb would be great but he's not available to us, Guddy might be. It also matters to me that Willie Mitchell thinks he's a guy you want around, so yes thats a lot to pay for intangibles but like i said we're going to overpay on some guys and I think this guy is a safe bet. Just my 2 cents tho. That is how I feel to. At the end of the day all the analysis and opinions mean jack squat to me. When you hear players and hall of famers upset he's off there team and how you need guys like him to win in the playoffs then that is the end of the story for me. They know the current game better than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 31 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, that depends on where you think its ok to overpay, because every single team does, there's no perfect cap team. Even Toews and Kane will have a hard time justifying their salaries at some point. given how poor we've been on pushback I'd be OK with paying Guddy a bit more than book value, in part because there are fewer of these guys around. McNabb would be great but he's not available to us, Guddy might be. It also matters to me that Willie Mitchell thinks he's a guy you want around, so yes thats a lot to pay for intangibles but like i said we're going to overpay on some guys and I think this guy is a safe bet. Just my 2 cents tho. So hand him a blank Cheque? Where’s the tipping point. We can’t likey get pedan back on a waiver claim next year. We have pushback coming up. Gadj Jake and for all we know tryamkin makes a return. That’s also why I’d like rasanen from the leafs. Big and mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: So hand him a blank Cheque? Where’s the tipping point. We can’t likey get pedan back on a waiver claim next year. We have pushback coming up. Gadj Jake and for all we know tryamkin makes a return. That’s also why I’d like rasanen from the leafs. Big and mean. no, but 4.5, 4.75 per? sure. Pedan isn't an NHL quality player. Gadjovich is in the OHL. Tryamkin may or may not come back. Guddy is the bird in the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: no, but 4.5, 4.75 per? sure. Pedan isn't an NHL quality player. Gadjovich is in the OHL. Tryamkin may or may not come back. Guddy is the bird in the hand. Gudbranson has good pedigree, but he hasn’t shown here that he is worth any sort of significant commitment. Barring some unreal play in the next couple months, Benning is going to have no better idea of how Gudbranson fits on our team by the time he needs to make a decision than he did last summer. The differece is Gudbranson isn’t club controlled and has zero incentive to sign a cheap, short term “show me” contract. I think the clock has just run out to prove he is anything but a 3rd pairing guy to us. He is much better off in his first chance as a UFA to find a GM who gets silly after seeing their team get pushed around in an early playoff exit. This is going to be his one chance to decide where to play and cash in on a deal with term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Provost said: Gudbranson has good pedigree, but he hasn’t shown here that he is worth any sort of significant commitment. Barring some unreal play in the next couple months, Benning is going to have no better idea of how Gudbranson fits on our team by the time he needs to make a decision than he did last summer. The differece is Gudbranson isn’t club controlled and has zero incentive to sign a cheap, short term “show me” contract. I think the clock has just run out to prove he is anything but a 3rd pairing guy to us. He is much better off in his first chance as a UFA to find a GM who gets silly after seeing their team get pushed around in an early playoff exit. This is going to be his one chance to decide where to play and cash in on a deal with term. I think he's shown some signs of top 4 potential tho, particularly that LA game where he had I think 25 minutes. Its a tough spot for a decision but he may also be happy here, that seems to be something a lot of people don't seem to think is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.