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Gustav Forsling is outscoring our D


Ray_Cathode

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3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Now who is ignorant?  Give your head a shake and stop whining about a trade that at the time looked good.  Looked DAMNED good.  Forsling would NOT look that well here in vancouver period.  I don't think anyone can credibly argue otherwise.  It happened it's done get over it.  He may or may not be in fact legit.  But after not even 60 NHL games I think you're laughably jumping the gun on that.  I dare say even Bartkowski or Weber would look good next to keith/Seabrook though.

Sorry but I totally disagree with that sentiment. Forsling was almost a record breaker in Sweden on the PP and also compared to Karlsson.

At the time of the trade the Canucks had more than one AHL dman in the system that they could have called up.

 

IMO this trade influenced the next draft to replace what Forsling already was showing promise of having and exactly what Benning etal were saying the team needed. The team was already going down the rabbit hole and descending quickly so how an AHL dman was going to help has to be questionable.

 

Essentially it is impossible for anybody to defend giving him away for nothing and then drafting a replacement for him instead of the next BPA and power forward like Tkachuk. Quenville stated from the very start that this kid was going to be exceptional.

 

Clendening did nothing for the team at all. The only possible win was trading a 5th round pick for a 2nd round pick, not the players though.

 

 

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4 hours ago, peaches5 said:

He looks better than Keith and Seabrook and Rutta. He been Arguably their best defenseman on a team that has great Dman.. Rodin NEVER looked good in the NHL. You clearly have not watched him play at all to be making such ignorant comments. The kid stands out as the best among the best. He's used on both the PP and PK as often as Keith, even more some nights. He plays 20-25 minutes a night, the only Dman who plays slightly more is Keith. So you're right he is on a team full of all stars and he looks better than the all stars. You've an all star coach who is playing him just as much as Duncan Keith who is arguably the best Dman in the league. Joel Quenville is using the 21 year old as his number 2 dman. 

 

This has nothing to do with "circumstances". He is legit. We traded away a number 1 Dman for a plug because we wanted to "retool". 

I agree the trade looks horrible now but GMJB has had good and bad trades. This could end up being his worst. However I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he felt pressure to acquire a d-man who could play at the time. 

 

It is perhaps best to say that it is never good to make a trade under pressure and he has learned his lesson this year by signing surplus FA's so as not to have to make a pressure trade. Too bad he gets flack for this too.

 

he has a pretty impossible job when it comes to pleasing people. Maybe he will find another Gem defenseman in a latter round.

 

I hope he keeps drafting for Vancouver.

Edit: The Nucks were also overachieving that year and made the playoffs. But we only know that now (that they were overachieving). It isn't uncommon for GM's to make a bad decision when the playoffs are in sight. Especially in Vancouver and especially when there are heavy expectations from ownership right down through CDC:)

 

Adam Clendening scored 11 points 31 games for the Rangers last year and was a plus 3. As a complete outsider those look like decent numbers. I wonder what the problem is as he is back in the AHL this year.

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3 hours ago, Snidely Whiplash said:

So you think Benning personally discovered this player on some foggy December night in some hidden mountain valley? Or do you think some scouts did? It’s a 5th round pick man. Someone said pick Forsling and Benning was like “K” 

At this draft Benning had the benefit of the expertise of the Bruins scouting department as well as the Canucks European scouts that is one reason, apart from Virtanen struggling, it is his best and deepest draft so far.

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3 hours ago, apollo said:

LOL! Shhhhhhhhh lets keep my secret agenda intact :lol:

 

It's funny how that Sbisa situation worked out... Hoping Loui keeps up his good play. He's honestly been amazing since he returned. If he keeps it up, he'll shut down some of the hate on here. 

Dare you get on the Edler hype train next? It might be the most risky one yet.

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You're kidding right?  I can name almost every team and every GM who gave up a player that turned out to look like a bad trade down the road.  Using hindsight to appear smart and call out someone's decision making is nothing new here.  Don't understand why do people always feel the need to point out when a player is doing well that used to be Canuck's property.  It's like crying over a girl that they dumped years ago who suddenly got really hot. 

 

If every GM is considered bad for making a trade that didn't pan out in their benefit the NHL wouldn't have a single good GM.

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2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Sorry but I totally disagree with that sentiment. Forsling was almost a record breaker in Sweden on the PP and also compared to Karlsson.

At the time of the trade the Canucks had more than one AHL dman in the system that they could have called up.

 

IMO this trade influenced the next draft to replace what Forsling already was showing promise of having and exactly what Benning etal were saying the team needed. The team was already going down the rabbit hole and descending quickly so how an AHL dman was going to help has to be questionable.

 

Essentially it is impossible for anybody to defend giving him away for nothing and then drafting a replacement for him instead of the next BPA and power forward like Tkachuk. Quenville stated from the very start that this kid was going to be exceptional.

 

Clendening did nothing for the team at all. The only possible win was trading a 5th round pick for a 2nd round pick, not the players though.

 

 

He was never compared to Karlsson.  His 6 points in his draft were were not record breaking.  As of his trade in January of 2015 he had 12 points in 29 games which would be his draft +1.  Far from truly record breaking

 

Benning tried to improve the team and by all the numbers it was a worthy trade.  Selling high on a long shot prospect.  For me in my opinion continuing to revisit this endlessly is like driving by your exes workplace slowly and creepily.  We should just stop

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2 hours ago, Calvin's Dog said:

I agree the trade looks horrible now but GMJB has had good and bad trades. This could end up being his worst. However I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he felt pressure to acquire a d-man who could play at the time. 

 

It is perhaps best to say that it is never good to make a trade under pressure and he has learned his lesson this year by signing surplus FA's so as not to have to make a pressure trade. Too bad he gets flack for this too.

 

he has a pretty impossible job when it comes to pleasing people. Maybe he will find another Gem defenseman in a latter round.

 

I hope he keeps drafting for Vancouver.

Edit: The Nucks were also overachieving that year and made the playoffs. But we only know that now (that they were overachieving). It isn't uncommon for GM's to make a bad decision when the playoffs are in sight. Especially in Vancouver and especially when there are heavy expectations from ownership right down through CDC:)

 

Adam Clendening scored 11 points 31 games for the Rangers last year and was a plus 3. As a complete outsider those look like decent numbers. I wonder what the problem is as he is back in the AHL this year.

OEL/Chycrun/Goligoski/Hjalmarsson/Demers

 

While Chycrun isn't playing yet it's hard to crack a roster like that.  But SERIOUSLY makes one question how the Yotes look so bad with that blue line

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17 hours ago, Snidely Whiplash said:

So you think Benning personally discovered this player on some foggy December night in some hidden mountain valley? Or do you think some scouts did? It’s a 5th round pick man. Someone said pick Forsling and Benning was like “K” 

Or you can think that 30 other teams passed on Forsling 5 times and Benning grabbed him.

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15 hours ago, Warhippy said:

He was never compared to Karlsson.  His 6 points in his draft were were not record breaking.  As of his trade in January of 2015 he had 12 points in 29 games which would be his draft +1.  Far from truly record breaking

 

Benning tried to improve the team and by all the numbers it was a worthy trade.  Selling high on a long shot prospect.  For me in my opinion continuing to revisit this endlessly is like driving by your exes workplace slowly and creepily.  We should just stop

Despite how great Brock is, haters are going to hate. Being rational might be expecting too much. 

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On 11/20/2017 at 5:09 PM, Ray_Cathode said:

I was looking at the prospect points tracker all the way down at the bottom, and noticed:

If Forsling ( Gillis pick, I believe) could transfer himself and his points to Vancouver, he would be our highest scoring defenceman  at 2g 5a in 17 games compared to Del Zotto at 1g and 6a in 20 games played.  Apparently, he was traded for, along with a 2nd round pick, for Adam Clendenning and Brandon Sutter, in order to get rid of a guy who went on to win two Stanley Cup rings.

In PPG, Jarred McCann with 2g 3a in 8 games, would be our second highest scoring C.  Thankfully, Benning is better at drafting that at evaluating NHL talent.

 

Not sure the point you are making at all.   Forsling may have zero points if on current Canucks and McCann may not even be in line up.   Comparing apples and oranges like this for what purpose?   

 

A GM makes a series of moves over their career and some players are better fits in different organizations and some are worse.  Some end up on good teams that win Cups and others end up in the AHL with no hope of advancement.    Part of professional hockey.   The comparisons you make to two entire different teams with different styles, different prospect/talent pools and different levels of current talent are pretty meaningless in comparing to current Canuck team/players as you cannot do that back/forth translation.   I suspect you could time travel Guddy back to the early 80s Oilers and Gretzky and co could have him hitting 50 points in a season too.   

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2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Not sure the point you are making at all.   Forsling may have zero points if on current Canucks and McCann may not even be in line up.   Comparing apples and oranges like this for what purpose?   

 

A GM makes a series of moves over their career and some players are better fits in different organizations and some are worse.  Some end up on good teams that win Cups and others end up in the AHL with no hope of advancement.    Part of professional hockey.   The comparisons you make to two entire different teams with different styles, different prospect/talent pools and different levels of current talent are pretty meaningless in comparing to current Canuck team/players as you cannot do that back/forth translation.   I suspect you could time travel Guddy back to the early 80s Oilers and Gretzky and co could have him hitting 50 points in a season too.   

So true.

Sbisa is outscoring Forsling so I guess that means he would be a number 1 d-man on the Canucks. Surprised that San Jose haven't tried to dump that bum Burns onto Vegas for Sbisa, after all Sbisa is outscoring Burns. What a pointless thread.

 

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On 11/20/2017 at 5:33 PM, peaches5 said:

His defense is what will blow you away. The kid is as good as Tanev Defensively with more offensive upside. He could turn into a number 1 dman. He will easily be a number 2.

There should be a rule where JB should not trade any pick he drafted until we see how they pan out. JB is great when it comes to drafts so I would be weary when he trades his draft picks when we haven't got a chance to look at them play in the NHL. It sucks now but imagine if we still had Tryamkin with Forsling on the team.

 

Tanev-Del Zotto

Tryamkin-Forsling

Pouliot-Gudbranson

Hutton-Edler

Stecher-Biega

 

 

That would've been great depth on D where we could've traded Hutton and Stecher for a top 6 forward and still have 8 NHL defensemen.

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On 11/20/2017 at 6:31 PM, Dazzle said:

Another classic example of hindsight is 20/20.

 

Forsling was a great pick, but he was a 5th rounder. Clendenning at the time was producing in the AHL and was thought to be a more known entity. We also needed a depth defenceman that might contribute on a Canucks roster, with the possibility of further development.

 

It turned out that Clendenning was not that great of a skater and he was ultimately given up.

The problem here was who scouted Clendenning in the first place. I mean if he wasn't that great of an skater then they would've known before trading for him unless the scouts didn't do their homework and went just based on stats. Now if he was still with the Canucks as a depth guy there would be no problem but he was such a bust that we gave up on him shortly. Well, I just hope Benning learned a lesson from that trade to not give up on a promising prospect without further evaluation.

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On 11/21/2017 at 9:03 AM, Snidely Whiplash said:

People act like Grandlund and Baertschi are equivalent to the Nazi army finding the arc of the covenant. We probably have 8 Granlund’s developing in our system. A player of his caliber already marinated in playoff experience is available every July 1st for +/- 1M/yr. Baertschi is a Mason Raymond type serviceable SUPPORT player that is also not a impossible asset to obtain on any given July 1st and his potential equivalent is available in every round of every draft. These players are not franchise defining pieces. Their numbers will never be honoured in a pregame ceremony so stop acting like Benning is some type of Alchemist. 

I would still trade our 2nd rounder for Baertschi today and call it a steal. I doubt you can find a player with Baertschi's age and stats on the free agency since teams sign their young players and lock them up before they hit the open market. Even if you did manage to find one, it would cost you a lot more than what we are paying for him. So our 2nd leading scorer isn't an elite player but he is a player that teams won't trade or give up. Unless we have a Gaudreau on the wing, we won't be getting rid of him. 

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19 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

I would still trade our 2nd rounder for Baertschi today and call it a steal. I doubt you can find a player with Baertschi's age and stats on the free agency since teams sign their young players and lock them up before they hit the open market. Even if you did manage to find one, it would cost you a lot more than what we are paying for him. So our 2nd leading scorer isn't an elite player but he is a player that teams won't trade or give up. Unless we have a Gaudreau on the wing, we won't be getting rid of him. 

You are misinterpreting what I’m saying. The age is irrelevant. A small scoring winger isn’t that hard to come by. You can supplement his scoring with stop gaps. You’ll never hear someone say. “They are a great team, but still just a small scoring winger away from being true cup contenders”. Look at the gaggle of players that have played on Crosby’s wing. It’s the most abundant, position in hockey. I wouldn’t even bother drafting them unless they are generational talent. 

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21 minutes ago, Snidely Whiplash said:

You are misinterpreting what I’m saying. The age is irrelevant. A small scoring winger isn’t that hard to come by. You can supplement his scoring with stop gaps. You’ll never hear someone say. “They are a great team, but still just a small scoring winger away from being true cup contenders”. Look at the gaggle of players that have played on Crosby’s wing. It’s the most abundant, position in hockey. I wouldn’t even bother drafting them unless they are generational talent. 

LW, and it's a lot harder to find a natural top 6 LW than it is a RW.

 

Also, I seem to recall us having a helluva time finding anyone for Kesler to play with once upon a time.

 

I think you're severely underrating Baertschi.

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17 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

LW, and it's a lot harder to find a natural top 6 LW than it is a RW.

 

Also, I seem to recall us having a helluva time finding anyone for Kesler to play with once upon a time.

 

I think you're severely underrating Baertschi.

We will see how he does in our 1st round exit that will do so much for developing our players and inspiring British Columbia. 

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It was a bad trade, but I don't think Benning's legacy will hang on Forsling. He's done too much good for the organization's depth.

 

And he's been on the good end of more bad trades in our favour with Baertschi, Granlund, Pouliot, Goldobin, and Dahlen.  

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