[Discussion] Can The Canucks Even Do A Trade?

[TheGuardian_]

It is not a matter of players to trade it is a matter of cap space.

It is not a matter of available contracts left (under 50).

 

If there were any deals the Canucks are hamstrung by the cap.

They can't use available cap space to enhance a trade or to take back more salary than giving out.

They have more veterans than can even allowed play in the AHL already so they can't trade and bury a contract.

While any deal can be worked out for the Canucks this has become similar to passing a physics test.

 

The other consideration is what management's actual plans are? The signing of so many vets make you wonder if there is a plan to move most at the TDL or set up for a playoff run. If it is the TDL idea then what they do now shouldn't matter because they are rebuilding, so while it may require a physics test type effort they should try. It doesn't matter who they trade with under the new playoff format unlees they are still thinking old school in which case there are 15 teams they will not trade with, that is not a good plan.

 

Lets say Edmonton did offer up JP and enough assets to do a trade and they want a goalie and Tanev/Edler. Try to work that out so both teams are not cap crunched over the next few years, well Edmonton anyway. Even any deal with Montreal before TDL day becomes a math equation.

 

The more parts to any deal the less likely for it to happen and for the Canucks I think they are at the point of just sitting back and watching unless some team offers multiple draft picks and can add a few million to their cap, so that eliminates many teams.

[HerrDrFunk]

Weren't we cap crunched last year too? Didn't we manage to move veterans for prospects then? 

[Nucker 67]

TDL

 

Vanek

Edler/Hutton

Granlund

Gagner

 

for picks/prospects

 

Let's not do any deals with EDM, can't wait for McDavid's salary to kick in.

 

Lucic - $6,000,000

Draisaitl - $8,500,000

Nugent-Hopkins - $6,000,000

McDavid - $12,500,000

Sekera - $5,500,000

 

Yikes

 

I noticed Nurse is an RFA after this year, and is only making $863,333 this year. He'll be due for a big raise. Maybe the Canucks should make him an offer. Not sure how the Oilers will be able to afford him.

 

[PunjabiCanucks]

Even if we are in a playoff spot at the deadline we should sell. Horvat, Baertschi, and Boeser make up for 43% of our scoring, and if they get shut down we are screwed. We are in the bottom 10 for goals for and in the middle for goals against. Our goaltending has been better then I had expected, but its not great.

 

Now, the way I see it everyone can be moved except our obvious core moving forward and yes this includes Virtanen. We will have cap space next year assuming the Sedins retire (I hope the Sedins by then say we are resigning or we are retiring). We could trade for big contracts if we get 1st rd or 2nd rd picks back but said contracts should only be for 1 or 2 years (ending by 2020). After that we need the $ for our future prospects who will be coming off Entry Level Contracts.

[TheGuardian_]

48 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Weren't we cap crunched last year too? Didn't we manage to move veterans for prospects then? 

There was actually more cap space last year.

As the TDL approaches the amount of cap space increases because the amount needed to pay let's say a 1 mil contract has already paid out 80% already. So they work it out that 200 grand in cap space today equals 1 mil at the TDL.

 

 The problem is this team has too many vets that are not allowed to play in the AHL already, AHL rules, so picks are okay but prospects in the NHL already would mean sitting out players. It gets complicated.

 

The additional cap space would be used to take money back to help a trade.

[TheGuardian_]

If the Canucks are really in a rebuild mode, Edler and Tanev have extraordinary value right now to several NHL teams. Moving them for low priced top level prospects is possible as long as they aren't required to take back too much in salary.

 

This would actually help them at the trade deadline because they would have additional cap space to enhance any trade.

 

Moving either/both would indicate the faith in their decisions Guddy is a top 4 and that OJ is the guy they thought and possibly give better odds for a crack at Dahlin at the draft and the possibility of offering Tryamkin enough to leave the KHL.

 

Get the right forwards and this team could/might be a true contender for 2021 or 2020 if there is no work stoppage. It would help everyone keep their jobs.

[combover]

I fear That if we are in or close to a playoff position at or near the TDL this  managment group will go for it and will be okay with losing any pending ufas for nothing in the summer  it’s happen here before,then there’s the give the sedins one last chance in the postseason followed closely with its good for the young players to get a taste which to me is BS.

 

What I’d like to see is regardless of the standings we should sell from now till the TDL for picks and prospects 

at this point I wouldn’t care if they traded with divisional foes if the return is right. By the time the Nucks are going to be a legit cup team the aged vets we trade will be non factors.

 

I think we will have the cap space to take some salary back for example 

vanek traded so add 2mill —I’m just going to use the full contract I know it’s whats left on it that’s the cap hit.

Then say Tanev gets traded add another  4.5mill  total 6.5   

and maybe we can get rid of some of the vet  farm hands as mandatory  pieces that have to be taken as well.

 

So JUST AN EXAMPLE

vanek for a 3rd

tanev wiercioch and megna for top prospect and salary dump.

 

again I know the cap hit is what’s left at the time of trade.

 

But (Cliche time)

where theres a will there’s a way.

 

I should add that teams that are in win now mode and/or underperforming rarely look at down the road. 

 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think realistically we've got some veterans who can help us now but also in the future, and some will be quite important in being a part of the future leaders and transitioning into the next era of Canucks.

 

In particular, I think of guys like Tanev, Gudbranson and Sutter as mainstays.

 

Gagner and MDZ are on the fringe. They could end up sticking, especially with managable contracts and are still relatively young, and will be about 30-32 when the new core is hitting their prime so could act as great leaders if they stick around. Of course that depends on how the rest of the season and their contracts go. The same could be said for Burmistrov.

 

The Sedins, Edler, Eriksson and Vanek will probably only have 1-3 seasons tops to go. I think the Sedins will retire at the end of this season if not, the next. Edler will probably stick around for 2 more seasons, Vanek is of course the most expendable but having a strong season and Eriksson looks like he's built to last, I think he'll play in the NHL until he's 35 to be honest. Say what you want about him but he's having an excellent season so far.

 

Realistically, I'd like to hold on to Tanev, Gudbranson and Sutter as the future leaders, and perhaps MDZ. With the Sedins departing soon, I wouldn't be against keeping Eriksson around for a little bit as a European leader, especially for some of the European rookies coming through soon, and also the fact that his contract is a deathwish I doubt we'll move him.

 

Ideally we flip Eriksson, Vanek or Gagner at the deadline if we're in the bottom of the conference for a prospect or decent pick. I'd be happy to package someone like Granlund + one of the veterans for a decent defenceman too.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

It is not a matter of players to trade it is a matter of cap space.

It is not a matter of available contracts left (under 50).

 

If there were any deals the Canucks are hamstrung by the cap.

They can't use available cap space to enhance a trade or to take back more salary than giving out.

They have more veterans than can even allowed play in the AHL already so they can't trade and bury a contract.

While any deal can be worked out for the Canucks this has become similar to passing a physics test.

 

The other consideration is what management's actual plans are? The signing of so many vets make you wonder if there is a plan to move most at the TDL or set up for a playoff run. If it is the TDL idea then what they do now shouldn't matter because they are rebuilding, so while it may require a physics test type effort they should try. It doesn't matter who they trade with under the new playoff format unlees they are still thinking old school in which case there are 15 teams they will not trade with, that is not a good plan.

 

Lets say Edmonton did offer up JP and enough assets to do a trade and they want a goalie and Tanev/Edler. Try to work that out so both teams are not cap crunched over the next few years, well Edmonton anyway. Even any deal with Montreal before TDL day becomes a math equation.

 

The more parts to any deal the less likely for it to happen and for the Canucks I think they are at the point of just sitting back and watching unless some team offers multiple draft picks and can add a few million to their cap, so that eliminates many teams.

it can work out fine this year if we're sending them veterans and we're getting an ELC back.

 

You also need to remember that EDM has about 8 mil in cap space right now so they don't need to send us veterans back. A deal with Edmonton would be very easy cap-wise.

[PhillipBlunt]

30 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think realistically we've got some veterans who can help us now but also in the future, and some will be quite important in being a part of the future leaders and transitioning into the next era of Canucks.

 

In particular, I think of guys like Tanev, Gudbranson and Sutter as mainstays.

 

Gagner and MDZ are on the fringe. They could end up sticking, especially with managable contracts and are still relatively young, and will be about 30-32 when the new core is hitting their prime so could act as great leaders if they stick around. Of course that depends on how the rest of the season and their contracts go. The same could be said for Burmistrov.

 

The Sedins, Edler, Eriksson and Vanek will probably only have 1-3 seasons tops to go. I think the Sedins will retire at the end of this season if not, the next. Edler will probably stick around for 2 more seasons, Vanek is of course the most expendable but having a strong season and Eriksson looks like he's built to last, I think he'll play in the NHL until he's 35 to be honest. Say what you want about him but he's having an excellent season so far.

 

Realistically, I'd like to hold on to Tanev, Gudbranson and Sutter as the future leaders, and perhaps MDZ. With the Sedins departing soon, I wouldn't be against keeping Eriksson around for a little bit as a European leader, especially for some of the European rookies coming through soon, and also the fact that his contract is a deathwish I doubt we'll move him.

 

Ideally we flip Eriksson, Vanek or Gagner at the deadline if we're in the bottom of the conference for a prospect or decent pick. I'd be happy to package someone like Granlund + one of the veterans for a decent defenceman too.

Edler is only signed up until the end of the 2018/2019 season. If Benning can't trade him this season (which I certainly hope he can and does) he'll be here for at least one more season.  

[Nucker 67]

I agree that the Canucks should be sellers, but we know that management will want playoffs, until they're mathematically eliminated. Wiercioch will probably walk at the end of the season. I think they'll re-sign the Sedins a year and keep Edler. Y'know, to mentor the "kids". I don't see them trading our best Dman (Tanev). He could still be a big part of the future. I think they'll also come to an agreement with Gudbranson ($4.25 per over 3 years)

 

TDL - Vanek and Gagner (for picks/prospects)

 

Eriksson isn't going anywhere, no one will want to pay the $6 million per year. I hope the Canucks keep Sutter and Del Zotto. They might also make some trades (Hutton, Virtanen, Goldobin, Baertschi, Granlund, Burmistrov)

 

 

[stuman491]

If Benning's contract isn't extended by the TDL.  Then he will be a buyer at the deadline in an attempt to make the playoffs.  It will be very obvious to him that getting another contract is dependant on this team's success this year.  I wish we had a clearer pictures of what direction this team is moving in. 

[Rob_Zepp]

Is this just another "Jim Benning and co are idiots" thread?    Are there not enough of those already?

 

If you don't agree with the path the team is on, that is fine but how many different ways do you need to say it?

[J.I.A.H.N]

33 minutes ago, stuman491 said:

If Benning's contract isn't extended by the TDL.  Then he will be a buyer at the deadline in an attempt to make the playoffs.  It will be very obvious to him that getting another contract is dependant on this team's success this year.  I wish we had a clearer pictures of what direction this team is moving in. 

I think you are right.........

 

But what frustrates me more than anything is that you are bang on, and that means that Aqualini is not listening!

 

I think the fan's are in support of the rebuild and have made enough noise for Aqualini to understand what we want, but he is dictated by money

 

And that 1 round is money in the bank for him...............

 

The worst thing is we are so close in terms of having enough prospects

 

We can replace a Vanek, Gagner, Burnistrov, and Nilsson anytime we want, so moving them is not much of problem

 

Edler should be moved as part of asset management, so at the end of the day, we should be going into this years draft with extra picks

 

But, I am getting the same feelings as you.............it will piss me off.......and I will have to live with it!

 

Go Canucks Go.....whippy!

[TheGuardian_]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Is this just another "Jim Benning and co are idiots" thread?    Are there not enough of those already?

 

If you don't agree with the path the team is on, that is fine but how many different ways do you need to say it?

You really have defending Benning on the mind eh? Seeing Benning bashing in most threads?

 

This is what the title states and that is it. The cap is what it is and millions of fans already know that teams capped out have a difficult time making trades, it is on the media quite often.

 

The media have also been reporting on the AHL team and number of vets that are being sat due to AHL rules. See Rodin's departure.

 

The question of "why" so many extra vets were signed, so many they can't all play in the AHL has to be asked don't you think? Does signing extra vets contribute to a rebuild plan? Or does it make more sense that they are there for depth in playoff run? That is what a lot of teams do at the TDL, sign vets to help them through. The question is also posted that they could be for TDL day deals.

 

Read into any statement that isn't singing koombaya and declare it is a bashing thread I guess.

 

Blind fanaticism isn't being a fan at all, it is just being a lemming. 

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

You really have defending Benning on the mind eh? Seeing Benning bashing in most threads?

 

This is what the title states and that is it. The cap is what it is and millions of fans already know that teams capped out have a difficult time making trades, it is on the media quite often.

 

The media have also been reporting on the AHL team and number of vets that are being sat due to AHL rules. See Rodin's departure.

 

The question of "why" so many extra vets were signed, so many they can't all play in the AHL has to be asked don't you think? Does signing extra vets contribute to a rebuild plan? Or does it make more sense that they are there for depth in playoff run? That is what a lot of teams do at the TDL, sign vets to help them through. The question is also posted that they could be for TDL day deals.

 

Read into any statement that isn't singing koombaya and declare it is a bashing thread I guess.

 

Blind fanaticism isn't being a fan at all, it is just being a lemming. 

extra bodies the AHL = Vegas expansion needs, we needed the warm bodies signed though this season to meet expansion rules

 

Benning signed Vanek, Del Z and Gagner because Megna and Chaput actually suck and we might be able to flip Vanek and Del Z for picks, its not hard to figure out 

 

 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

37 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

You really have defending Benning on the mind eh? Seeing Benning bashing in most threads?

 

This is what the title states and that is it. The cap is what it is and millions of fans already know that teams capped out have a difficult time making trades, it is on the media quite often.

 

The media have also been reporting on the AHL team and number of vets that are being sat due to AHL rules. See Rodin's departure.

 

The question of "why" so many extra vets were signed, so many they can't all play in the AHL has to be asked don't you think? Does signing extra vets contribute to a rebuild plan? Or does it make more sense that they are there for depth in playoff run? That is what a lot of teams do at the TDL, sign vets to help them through. The question is also posted that they could be for TDL day deals.

 

Read into any statement that isn't singing koombaya and declare it is a bashing thread I guess.

 

Blind fanaticism isn't being a fan at all, it is just being a lemming. 

Nope, defending no one.  The entire premise of this thread is thinly veiled at best - the team has actually a better CAP situation than last year and moves were made then just fine.  Yes, the organization has a lot of players who can play in NHL and AHL now - that is what happens when you turn a corner and start a rebuild.   Veterans were signed to create a culture of competition and, hey, guess what....so far it is working.   All of those signings came with ZERO movement clauses (even Horvat's didn't) and so they are all poker chips to be played if people want to do that.  

 

There is not "blind" anything here but a blind hate of this organization's management by a few.   It is so immature and transparent.   I don't understand the fixation.   The Canucks have gone from doormat status to a legitimate (but still non-playoff in my mind) rebuilding team with actual prospects in very few seasons in compare to the likes of Toronto, Edmonton, Florida, Buffalo, Arizona....the list goes on.   To do that a mix of players was required, some deft trades and some good drafting.   Check the box on all three.  No home runs but no complete whiffs either.   A few seasons to go but a thread claiming the Canucks are somehow unable to make a trade - c'mon, you are typically better than this.   Know you hate Benning in the way that people hate someone who stole their soulmate but how many different ways do you need to say it?    You think he (and his team) are incompetent and make idiotic moves and now have put themselves in a situation where they can make no moves.   That sum it up?

 

Wow.

[48MPHSlapShot]

[Father Ryan]

Let's just say that the cap seems to be tight, and yeah right now there's less than 1M left. But how often are "in-season" trades made? Not all that often. There was a good reason why management went out and signed 6 FA's...we needed them. Benning has done a pretty good job of restocking new players. But...most of them are still a year or two away. We needed the players in order to actually ice a team that would be competitive (and is a whole lot more than just about anyone thought!). You and all of the "trade all the vets and run with the youth" need to realize that every team needs a couple-few vets around, for times when things just aren't going well. Tonight's game, for example. 3rd period comes and the Penguins really started applying pressure. It was a timely stop in play, then a vet's calming influence that stopped that swing and allowed us to win the game. Last year's team would not have been competitive enough to actually be in the lead! So, signing all those vets, especially on D, was pretty much necessary to ice a complete team.

Take our D right now. We ended this game playing Hutton, MDZ, Puillot, Edler and Biega. Two new signees there, right?! And one of them scored a goal. Alright, let's insert last year's D...you have Hutton, Edler, Biega and...hmm...likely Pedan and McEneny. That, frankly, is not an NHL defense, it's barely more than an AHL defense.

 

Ok, back to cap space. When it gets time for the trade deadline, do you honestly think we are going to try and obtain a difference maker? I doubt it. We may be in position for the playoffs, but chances are more likely to have us on the outside, looking in. So we become sellers, not buyers, and the amount of cap space we have really basically becomes irrelevant. Guys like Burmistrov and Weicioch were signed exclusively to see if they could contribute enough to obtain some draft picks. So was Vanek, for that matter. Let just those 3 go, and we gain 3.8M (well, the remaining pro-rated amount). That is just the minimum I see us trading. If (a big if) we manage to get Edler to waive his movement clause, you can add another 5M.

 

And about the AHL vets. It's not that they can't play...they just can't play all at once. Since most of them are among the higher echelon for the AHL, it does give Cull a bit of a problem, but that's a problem that most coaches would like to have...too many good players. And honestly, that is likely just this year. Next year, both Lind and Gadjovich will be eligible for Utica (I believe). Then let's bring Dahlen and Petersson back, give them a year to adjust to a smaller rink. That's four players to thin out the vets. If we sign Gaudette (praying hard here!), then possibly one more.

 

@TheGuardian_, take off the coal colored glasses for a change. Management is in place, because, well, they know what they are doing. This year, and maybe next year, will likely be the last years where we sign multiple vets, just to fill in holes. Benning and his scouts have done a pretty damn good job of filling in the holes left by years of piss-poor drafting. You can't blame them for getting hosed in the lottery...twice. And Benning seems to have learned from his mistakes. None of this year's UFA's were signed to ridiculous contracts, all of them are pretty manageable. Sure, I'd like to have 1-2M back on Eriksson's contract, and maybe .65-1M on Dorsett's; maybe have one of those 2nd round picks back that were traded away. But all GM's make bad decisions on occasion. You think the people in Buffalo are happy with Okposo's contract? How about the apparent mismanagement of the Tavares situation? If that was here...say Gillis would have failed to get the Twins resigned, or Edler (back when he was considered really good). He would have been crucified, burned at the stake and run out of town without any clothes.

Dude, grow some patience. Realize that it takes a few years to turn it around, when you're damn near starting over with nothing.

[KKnight]

7 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

If the Canucks are really in a rebuild mode, Edler and Tanev have extraordinary value right now to several NHL teams. Moving them for low priced top level prospects is possible as long as they aren't required to take back too much in salary.

 

This would actually help them at the trade deadline because they would have additional cap space to enhance any trade.

 

Moving either/both would indicate the faith in their decisions Guddy is a top 4 and that OJ is the guy they thought and possibly give better odds for a crack at Dahlin at the draft and the possibility of offering Tryamkin enough to leave the KHL.

 

Get the right forwards and this team could/might be a true contender for 2021 or 2020 if there is no work stoppage. It would help everyone keep their jobs.

Although i would love for this team to fall off and get another top 5. If we continue winning, there is no way you sell off assets. What message does that send to your players busting their ass for you, the coaches working tirelessly on gameplans/strategies, potential free agents?? 

 

I like reading your posts cause theyre always controversial, but you fail to really see how a successful organization runs. Not that im an executive or anything. But, Its not just selling off assets for high picks. 

 

In a perfect world, the tires fall off the team. We lose most games, while keeping it close and entertaining. We walk in to the TDL selling off assets for picks and young players further in their development. Get the first overall pick, draft Rasmus "The God" Dahlin and continue our development to a championship. But, the way its looking right now, this team might be playoff bound if they continue this level of play.