[Discussion] Gagner Not Working Out -- but years left in his contract... what do they do?

[48MPHSlapShot]

3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Rodin was a one year stop gap which was much more inline with our prospects, Gagner is locked for 3 years.  Dumb signing....Oh well, I guess isn't not coming out of my pay check.

Rodin wasn't worth anything. Not even a roster spot, as proven by the fact that he wasn't claimed off of waivers. Gagne's contract has no restrictions on it. The moment he shows signs of waking up and another team shows interest, we have the option of moving him for a tangible asset, which we most likely will before his contract runs out. Even if it's a 4th or 5th rd pick, it's still an asset.

 

Personally, I like it when my team gets assets for nothing. Guess I'm just weird that way.

[86Viking]

11 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Moving Edler I think is a bigger priority. 

Be nice, but until he waives his NTC, Gagner is the easier of the 2 to move.

 

Hopefully Columbus has a bad PP this year and could use Gagner.

 

Gagner for Columbus 4th round pick, becomes a 3rd if they make playoffs

[ForsbergTheGreat]

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Rodin wasn't worth anything. Not even a roster spot, as proven by the fact that he wasn't claimed off of waivers.

 

 

Rodin was free potential that we didn’t even get to see due to the fact that we wasted a roster spot on a $3 million contact. 

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Gagne's contract has no restrictions on it.

That means nothing. Plenty of players have no restrictions and cause an issue. We just went through Prust being forced to be waived. Gagner was waived himself less than 2 years ago. 

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

The moment he shows signs of waking up and another team shows interest, we have the option of moving him for a tangible asset, which we most likely will before his contract runs out. Even if it's a 4th or 5th rd pick, it's still an asset.

 

Im not holding my breath. Last year was due or die for him. He got extremely sheltered and played with some high end talent on the pp. His back was up against the wall and he cashed in.

 

 It’s almost identical to what happened Raymond. He had a really good year in Toronto on a one year last chance deal. Cashed in with the flames on a 3 year 3 million deal. And ended up getting bought out. Wouldn’t suppise me to see gagner going down the same road. 

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Personally, I like it when my team gets assets for nothing. Guess I'm just weird that way.

You probably used that same line for vbrata too. How’d that turn out. Ufas can turn into assets but they can also easily turn into liabilities depending on the risks they bring. In order for them to be an asset they have bring value that other teams are interested in. 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Personally, I like it when my team gets assets for nothing. Guess I'm just weird that way.

Bingo. Rebuilding teams don't attract elite free agents, but you can get mid-level talent and some veteran leadership. Its a bit laughable to expect every veteran signing to be turned into a fistful of picks for less than one year of service. 

 

This thread rant doesn't make sense actually. Gagner hasn't been as bad as people are saying. 5 or his 7 minus points are from just 2 games. He's spent much of his time with Burmistrov and Gaunce, who aren't exactly huge producers. He's got decent possession numbers despite nearly 60% d-zone starts and he's actually on pace for over 40 30 points. What the hell were people expecting? 

 

The one area that could be better is on the PP but thats also where his 2 goals so far have come from. 

 

http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_profiler.php?sent=go&players=1641&games=2017-2018:R

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gagnesa01.html

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Rodin was free potential that we didn’t even get to see due to the fact that we wasted a roster spot on a $3 million contact. 

 

thats just revisionist nonsense. Rodin was never healthy enough to even compete for a roster spot. Gagner's contract did not hold Rodin back from anything. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Bingo. Rebuilding teams don't attract elite free agents, but you can get mid-level talent and some veteran leadership. Its a bit laughable to expect every veteran signing to be turned into a fistful of picks for less than one year of service. 

 

This thread rant doesn't make sense actually. Gagner hasn't been as bad as people are saying. 5 or his 7 minus points are from just 2 games. He's spent much of his time with Burmistrov and Gaunce, who aren't exactly huge producers. He's got decent possession numbers despite nearly 60% d-zone starts and he's actually on pace for over 40 points. What the hell were people expecting? 

You suck at math. 

 

 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You suck at math. 

 

 

you suck at many things I imagine. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Rodin was free potential that we didn’t even get to see due to the fact that we wasted a roster spot on a $3 million contact. 

Rodin wasn't an NHL player. Saying that Rodin didn't make the lineup because of Gagne is a cop out. Rodin didn't make the lineup because Rodin wasn't good enough to be on an NHL team.

 

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

That means nothing. Plenty of players have no restrictions and cause an issue. We just went through Prust being forced to be waived. Gagner was waived himself less than 2 years ago. 

Prust was dead weight. At the time we traded for him, it was arguable that he wasn't an NHL quality player. Gagne, while certainly not living up to his contract, hasn't reached anywhere near a Prust level of suckage, so it's not really comparable. If anything, the fact that Gagne recovered so well after being waived tells me that he's a player that's capable of overcoming adversity.

 

14 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Im not holding my breath. Last year was due or die for him. He got extremely sheltered and played with some high end talent on the pp. His back was up against the wall and he cashed in.

 

 It’s almost identical to what happened Raymond. He had a really good year in Toronto on a one year last chance deal. Cashed in with the flames on a 3 year 3 million deal. And ended up getting bought out. Wouldn’t suppise me to see gagner going down the same road. 

Time will certainly tell, but Gagne has a much stronger body of work to his name. Sheltered or not, he's consistently put up solid numbers since his first season in Edmonton. In fact, with the exception of his disastrous year in Philly and the pace he's on this year, he's never performed at less than a half PPG pace, whereas Raymond only produced those types of numbers 3 times during his entire career. So no, it's not exactly a parallel situation.

 

23 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You probably used that same line for vbrata too. How’d that turn out. Ufas can turn into assets but they can also easily turn into liabilities depending on the risks they bring. In order for them to be an asset they have bring value that other teams are interested in. 

Vrbata was in the final year of his contract, was underperforming, had a 5 million dollar cap hit, and had a limited no trade clause. Again, the situations aren't all that similar.

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you suck at many things I imagine. 

nope i'm perfect at everything.  it's a cure 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

nope i'm perfect at everything.  it's a cure 

ok champ. You're still wrong on Rodin and Gagner but keep with the insults if it makes you feel better. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Rodin wasn't an NHL player. Saying that Rodin didn't make the lineup because of Gagne is a cop out. Rodin didn't make the lineup because Rodin wasn't good enough to be on an NHL team.

 

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Prust was dead weight. At the time we traded for him, it was arguable that he wasn't an NHL quality player. Gagne, while certainly not living up to his contract, hasn't reached anywhere near a Prust level of suckage, so it's not really comparable. If anything, the fact that Gagne recovered so well after being waived tells me that he's a player that's capable of overcoming adversity.

It tells me he's a contract player, like so many guys in this league.  Guys like that shouldn't be given term.  I called that before this signing was made. It's quite common for players to show up in their final year of there contracts to land a decent term deal and them drop off after.  Flames had it happen with Raymond and now with Brouwer, Clarkson, Leino, Semin.

 

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Time will certainly tell, but Gagne has a much stronger body of work to his name. Sheltered or not, he's consistently put up solid numbers since his first season in Edmonton.

and ended up getting traded to the lighting for a cap dump and then to the yotes for a 6th round pick.  That shows how much value he has in this league. 

 

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

In fact, with the exception of his disastrous year in Philly and the pace he's on this year, he's never performed at less than a half PPG pace, whereas Raymond only produced those types of numbers 3 times during his entire career. So no, it's not exactly a parallel situation.

He might not have produced identical numbers but it's the exact same situation.  Two players who have up and down careers get a one year show me deal.  End up playing good and cashing in a on 3 year 3 million deal and then fall off the map. And Raymond in the first year of his 3 year deal with Calgary produced at a higher rate than Gagner is providing today.   It's a young man's game and teams are leaning sheltering and developing there young prospects rather than wasting that spot on a older player who's on the down turn of his career.

 

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Vrbata was in the final year of his contract, was underperforming, had a 5 million dollar cap hit, and had a limited no trade clause. Again, the situations aren't all that similar.

Sure they are Gagner had 3 years of term which limits any interest in him.  

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

He might not have produced identical numbers but it's the exact same situation.

The fact they haven't produced similar numbers means it's not the "exact same situation".

 

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Sure they are Gagner had 3 years of term which limits any interest in him.  

Assuming he isn't moved this year, he'll have two years of term left. Assuming the most realistic shot we have at moving him is at next season's deadline, he'll have a year and change left on his contract.

[Hairy Kneel]

I don't think we're good enough to hide his defensive weakness, we're doing that for the twins because they deserve it. 

For what Gags brings I'd rather have a hitting 4th liner that can add toughness.  A big body that can get Gagner's 10-12 goals and maybe drop the mitts a bit. And go to the net strong.

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

ok champ. You're still wrong on Rodin and Gagner but keep with the insults if it makes you feel better. 

I’m wrong. How am I wrong? the only way I’ll be wrong is if gagner turns it around and ends up be valuable and possibly moved for an addition. Until then, his play is proving me right. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

43 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

The fact they haven't produced similar numbers means it's not the "exact same situation".

 

“Situation” is the same. “Variants” are not. Overall picture is the same. 

 

43 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Assuming he isn't moved this year, he'll have two years of term left. Assuming the most realistic shot we have at moving him is at next season's deadline, he'll have a year and change left on his contract.

And until then he’s been a bad signing. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I’m wrong. How am I wrong? the only way I’ll be wrong is if gagner turns it around and ends up be valuable and possibly moved for an addition. Until then, his play is proving me right. 

OK. On Rodin, he was never ready to even compete for an NHL spot, there's no way Gagner's contract had any impact on Rodin's career trajectory. 

 

On Gagner. As you pointed out - 30 points projected (not 40) - may improve if he corrects to his career averages, not bad considering his line mates and 14 minutes per game avg. Sure he's had a couple of brutal games, but its really only a few, otherwise he's been OK. By what metric? 2 giveaways on the season, not exactly a pizza machine. 52% on face-offs. 48% CF% with 58% d-zone starts, not stellar but average. 

 

Basically, he's average. Maybe a bit overpriced, but thats life as a rebuilding team. You can't get elite most of the time in the position the Canucks are in. By the time his contract matters to the cap he'll be gone. In the meantime he's reliably average, so I really don't see what the big deal is. But he isn't a bust or a disaster of some kind, or holding back anyone. 

[Rob_Zepp]

16 hours ago, gameburn said:

Gagner Not Working Out

You can conclude that after 20 games?   Wow.   

 

Using your logic, Crosby isn't working out in Pittsburg this year either.    Give the guy a bit of time to adjust to the team and team to adjust to the guy - this is a rebuilding year and he was brought in to be a bridge player for a few years so how is that "not working out?".

 

Can never figure you Canuck fans out - one minute you want to tank and want the worst possible players in the line up and next you talk like you want to tool up for a Cup run.  Truth is, you need to embrace the middle ground during a rebuild and that includes, sorry to be the one to break it to you, having a few players that may not appear optimal fits at times while you go through the process.

 

Three years with no movement clauses for a reported "great guy" who can play any forward position and is a low CAP hit is a good deal for the team and a movable asset if required with nothing lost even if you get a late round pick for him.    

 

Chill.   

[ForsbergTheGreat]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

OK. On Rodin, he was never ready to even compete for an NHL spot, there's no way Gagner's contract had any impact on Rodin's career trajectory. 

Had gagner not locked up a roster spot, do you think the canucks would have been more willing to work with getting rodin into the NHL this year?  Last year they sure worked hard at it, the only difference is this year there were less spots, and gagner was one of them.  So yes the gagner contract did have an effect on Rodin being lost.  It's really simple to see that.  

 

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

On Gagner. As you pointed out - 30 points projected (not 40) - may improve if he corrects to his career averages, not bad considering his line mates and 14 minutes per game avg. Sure he's had a couple of brutal games, but its really only a few, otherwise he's been OK. By what metric? 2 giveaways on the season, not exactly a pizza machine. 52% on face-offs. 48% CF% with 58% d-zone starts, not stellar but average. 

He doesn't bring any value to this team, he's locked position for for 3 years, meaning that he's always going to hold an advantage over a young player trying to break into the league.  Just like we say with higgins, and prust.  Eventually the team will have to come to a point an pay to remove the status quo so that we can move forward.

 

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Basically, he's average. Maybe a bit overpriced, but thats life as a rebuilding team. You can't get elite most of the time in the position the Canucks are in. By the time his contract matters to the cap he'll be gone. In the meantime he's reliably average, so I really don't see what the big deal is. But he isn't a bust or a disaster of some kind, or holding back anyone. 

No one expects us to be elite that's why a 3 year contract is dumb for a rebuilding team, Vanek and Burmy were perfect one year stop gaps.  Gagner at two years would have been better, 3 years is just wasting money.  We have players trying to earn spots.  Next year Dahlen, pettersson, Gaudette, Goldy are all going to be fighting for a spot, a spot that Gagner was already gifted.  

[70seven]

16 hours ago, Bllewellyn said:

Trade him back to the blue jackets for a draft pick 

Sam fit nicely into the CBJ PP.  if they want to add some more depth, as any contending team should, a familiar face is always a much easier addition to any team... so they might be the most likely option. 

 

Not a horrible contract, but to get any team to take another 2 years...  I dunno if there’ll be any takers here. 

 

We are stuck with him imo. 

 

 

 

[shazzam]

I would much rather see a more physical player in place of Gagner. If a team wants him, I wouldn't mind seeing him get traded. But who takes his roster spot this year? Maybe Jake will get to play in all the game? In all for that. Jayson Megna will probably make a return.....don't we all want to see that?