3 trades X 2 (Proposals)

[J.I.A.H.N]

So, if you guys can humor me, and follow the rules (sorry!).........I just want to see the teams that you guys think these players might go to if traded.........and the returns they would bring.....

 

Thanks

 

Trade #1 ........................Markstrom to.............................................Arizona for Minn 2018 2nd + Arz 2019 2nd      or      Buffalo for 2018 2nd + 2019 3rd

 

Trade #2.........................Gud + Vanek  to........................................ Florida for  Pysyk + 2018 Arizona's 2nd         or       Toronto for Carrick + 2018 1st

 

Trade #3.........................Edler .........................................................Edmonton for Caggiula + 2018 2nd         or          Tampa's 2018 1st + 2019 2nd

 

All futures put's us in a great position for lots of prospects or draft pick upgrades

 

OK..............Bang Away!

[Nuxfanabroad]

Hi JIHN..trade 1: pls see my deal to Winnipeg

trade 2: I like those, man

3: I think we'll deal Eddie in the summer, tbh. Perhaps Ottawa? TBay's good, but Yzerman is tough to beat.

[Father Ryan]

#1 - I'll take Column A, the two 2nd round picks

#2 - not for me. Screw the "advanced" stats, we need someone of Guddy's disposition on this team. Vanek is really surprising me, and could easily become a "veteran" presence on this team, should the Twins retire after the season. Right about now, I'd change that one to...Hutton + Granlund for whatever we could get; maybe a 2nd + 3rd this year, and a  5th next year.

#3 - I'll take Column B on this pick, but I honestly don't think Edler is worth that much anymore. I'd say the 1st, and a 3rd vs the 2nd, would be more reasonable for him.

 

Still...an extra 1st and 2nd this year with @janisahockeynut trades offering, and the hypothetical 2nd and 3rd in the other one.

Just answer this, though...who is the other goalie for us? Demko needs this year in Utica, Bachman really isn't NHL material, and I really wonder if Gartieg is AHL material.

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

I'd certainly take  Caggiula and a 2nd for Edler. 

[c00kies]

I don't think Markstrom is worth two 2nds. Maybe one second rounder, but I don't think it would be a high one.

 

I have no idea about Edler's value anymore lol. I'd love to get those returns for him though.

[luckylager]

54 minutes ago, c00kies said:

I don't think Markstrom is worth two 2nds. Maybe one second rounder, but I don't think it would be a high one.

 

I have no idea about Edler's value anymore lol. I'd love to get those returns for him though.

I'm in your camp here, Cookie.

 

Thinking Edler should fetch about the same as Burr or Hansen. An A prospect + mid pick (If we're lucky). 

 

No way Marky is worth 2x 2nds. Remember what Lack returned? Marky=Lack

[HockeydownUnder]

I like the second proposal with Toronto, but it might need a bit of tweaking. I could see Toronto wanting Gudbranson. Vanek however would have trouble getting into their top 9. If Toronto loses a winger in their top 9 though Vanek could be a perfect substitute come deadline time.

 

Toronto is hard up on the cap though so they would need to send salary our way. It's hard to do with their contracts but we could take back fehr who is buried in the minors and costing them near a mil. We'd have to wait until closer to the deadline to see what their roster and cap situation is like.

 

Marky won't fetch us that much I'm afraid so I'd have to say the first trade is unlikely. Edler would probably get us a Burrows type return. I think Edler is worth more but Ottawa overpaid for Burrows

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, c00kies said:

I don't think Markstrom is worth two 2nds. Maybe one second rounder, but I don't think it would be a high one.

 

I have no idea about Edler's value anymore lol. I'd love to get those returns for him though.

Well, most teams spend 2nds and 3rds to draft goalies, and then they wait 4 or 5 years, to see if they have developed properly

Usually this does not happen on the first go around and usually not the 2nd go around...this waste valuable time and resources

So, I would suggest 2 seconds would be a fair price to pay for a starting goalie, who has succeeded to Markstroms level

 

The reason Buffalo's proposal is a 2nd and a 3rd, being that they will have a better chance at succeeding, where as Arizona's 2 seconds is because the 2018 draft we get Minnisota's, then the next year we get Arizona's 2019 2nd....so they pay more for us to wait for the better pick (and we will not know if they improve. therefore a potential loss of value) on Markstrom's value

 

I may be wrong but that is how I see it

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, luckylager said:

I'm in your camp here, Cookie.

 

Thinking Edler should fetch about the same as Burr or Hansen. An A prospect + mid pick (If we're lucky). 

 

No way Marky is worth 2x 2nds. Remember what Lack returned? Marky=Lack

Boy, I sure disagree with you on that point...........Marky's value is greater....Lack is basically out for all intents and purposes.....Markstrom still has 4 or 5 years of decent hockey in him......

[luckylager]

8 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Boy, I sure disagree with you on that point...........Marky's value is greater....Lack is basically out for all intents and purposes.....Markstrom still has 4 or 5 years of decent hockey in him......

I don't see how Marky will get us much more than Lack did.  Lack potentially held more value because he'd had a few shutouts

[kloubek]

22 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I don't see how Marky will get us much more than Lack did.  Lack potentially held more value because he'd had a few shutouts

Perhaps - but Lack had only played 82 NHL games.  Markstrom at this point has played 127.  That's over 50% extra knowledge of how he will fare against NHL competition - which is important in this very case since Lack wasn't playing well enough to even get picked up on waivers.

[luckylager]

Just now, kloubek said:

Perhaps - but Lack had only played 82 NHL games.  Markstrom at this point has played 127.  That's over 50% extra knowledge of how he will fare against NHL competition - which is important in this very case since Lack wasn't playing well enough to even get picked up on waivers.

Carolina destroyed lack. He was no better or worse than Marky when he was shipped out for a 3rd

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, luckylager said:

I don't see how Marky will get us much more than Lack did.  Lack potentially held more value because he'd had a few shutouts

Hey LL

 

Personal opinion here, but was Lack ever a starting goalie? (Foggy Memory!) I mean, I remember Schneider and Luongo being starters, and Miller, but never Lack (other than injury replacement) I certainly never thought he was.

Then when he was traded to Carolina......he kind of sewered.....then got to Calgary and did the same thing.....both times ending up in the minors.......

 

It is not that I didn't like Lack, as he was a great team-mate and had a great sense of humor............shutouts look great, but in most cases are luck and a reflection of how the team played on that particular night in front of him.....never the less, they have their place, no doubt

 

And it is not that Markstrom doesn't have his warts...............but he is in no way heading for the AHL, like Lack has been doing

 

Remember, Markstrom has been a starting goalie for how long?  He is not the worst starter in the league by a lot, not the best by a lot.......but he has value

 

Lack was traded for a 3rd and a 6th to Carolina from Vancouver, and then traded for less to Calgary. His last 4 games, he had a save % of less than .850....that is bad!

 

Whether he is as good as Markstrom is subjective, but IMO I don't think he is.............

[Rabbit]

I like the first trade, but doubt Marky could get this back.

[qwijibo]

20 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hey LL

 

Personal opinion here, but was Lack ever a starting goalie? (Foggy Memory!) I mean, I remember Schneider and Luongo being starters, and Miller, but never Lack (other than injury replacement) I certainly never thought he was.

Then when he was traded to Carolina......he kind of sewered.....then got to Calgary and did the same thing.....both times ending up in the minors.......

 

It is not that I didn't like Lack, as he was a great team-mate and had a great sense of humor............shutouts look great, but in most cases are luck and a reflection of how the team played on that particular night in front of him.....never the less, they have their place, no doubt

 

And it is not that Markstrom doesn't have his warts...............but he is in no way heading for the AHL, like Lack has been doing

 

Remember, Markstrom has been a starting goalie for how long?  He is not the worst starter in the league by a lot, not the best by a lot.......but he has value

 

Lack was traded for a 3rd and a 6th to Carolina from Vancouver, and then traded for less to Calgary. His last 4 games, he had a save % of less than .850....that is bad!

 

Whether he is as good as Markstrom is subjective, but IMO I don't think he is.............

The thing is about that argument is that Markstrom is 27 and really hasn't established himself as a legit starter. He's had stretches of great play when filling in for injury. But he has never been the undisputed starter of a team.  Even this year with the Canucks its be a case of 1A 1B with neither guy clearly taking the reins.  

 

James Reimer is probably a decent comparison (although even he was more established as a starter than Markstrom is). Reimer was traded at the deadline for 

• 2016-Feb-27 Traded from Toronto Maple Leafs with  Jeremy Morin to San Jose Sharks for  Ben Smith, Alex Stalock and round 4 pick in the 2018 draft. 

Thats a far cry from two 2nd's 

[luckylager]

24 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hey LL

 

Personal opinion here, but was Lack ever a starting goalie? (Foggy Memory!) I mean, I remember Schneider and Luongo being starters, and Miller, but never Lack (other than injury replacement) I certainly never thought he was.

Then when he was traded to Carolina......he kind of sewered.....then got to Calgary and did the same thing.....both times ending up in the minors.......

 

It is not that I didn't like Lack, as he was a great team-mate and had a great sense of humor............shutouts look great, but in most cases are luck and a reflection of how the team played on that particular night in front of him.....never the less, they have their place, no doubt

 

And it is not that Markstrom doesn't have his warts...............but he is in no way heading for the AHL, like Lack has been doing

 

Remember, Markstrom has been a starting goalie for how long?  He is not the worst starter in the league by a lot, not the best by a lot.......but he has value

 

Lack was traded for a 3rd and a 6th to Carolina from Vancouver, and then traded for less to Calgary. His last 4 games, he had a save % of less than .850....that is bad!

 

Whether he is as good as Markstrom is subjective, but IMO I don't think he is.............

Yeah, fair enough. I concede Marky probably has slightly more trade value than Lack did when he was moved from Vancity. But not a lot more, certainly not 2x 2nd. 

[Nucker 67]

Edler to NYR for their 1st (Gudbranson and Pouliot re-signed)

 

Vanek to ? for a 2nd

 

Gagner to ? for a 3rd

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, qwijibo said:

The thing is about that argument is that Markstrom is 27 and really hasn't established himself as a legit starter. He's had stretches of great play when filling in for injury. But he has never been the undisputed starter of a team.  Even this year with the Canucks its be a case of 1A 1B with neither guy clearly taking the reins.  

 

James Reimer is probably a decent comparison (although even he was more established as a starter than Markstrom is). Reimer was traded at the deadline for 

• 2016-Feb-27 Traded from Toronto Maple Leafs with  Jeremy Morin to San Jose Sharks for  Ben Smith, Alex Stalock and round 4 pick in the 2018 draft. 

Thats a far cry from two 2nd's 

Well.....let's see

 

10th in GAA compared against goaltenders with more than 10 starts

18th in save percentage against goaltenders with more than 10 starts

 

9th in GAA compared against goaltenders with 17 or more starts

15th in save percentage against goalies with 17 or more starts

 

Out of approx. 24 games per team

 

I don't know, but that looks like a starter to me.

 

But in saying all that, let's give you the credit of the doubt and agree that 2 nds may be too much..........a high 2nd (32 OA to 42 OA) + a high 3rd for a starter, is more than a fair price..........IMHO.............

 

But, thanks for the input.......yours and LL points are good solid points of view and are respected...

 

Thanks.

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, qwijibo said:

The thing is about that argument is that Markstrom is 27 and really hasn't established himself as a legit starter. He's had stretches of great play when filling in for injury. But he has never been the undisputed starter of a team.  Even this year with the Canucks its be a case of 1A 1B with neither guy clearly taking the reins.  

 

James Reimer is probably a decent comparison (although even he was more established as a starter than Markstrom is). Reimer was traded at the deadline for 

• 2016-Feb-27 Traded from Toronto Maple Leafs with  Jeremy Morin to San Jose Sharks for  Ben Smith, Alex Stalock and round 4 pick in the 2018 draft. 

Thats a far cry from two 2nd's 

In addition, when you look at the talent levels of some of the other teams above us, it is no wonder that Marky is in the middle of the pack......if he was on a better team, my bet would be he would have better stats.............we are 21st in winning percentage today, so I think Marky is holding his own as a starter

 

Top end starter no............middle of the pack starter, I think there is argument for that, and he did pretty much the same thing last year, if I remember right ?????

 

"Peaceful debate!" Cheers

 

As  per comparing Marky to Nilsson.........Nilsson has a smaller sample size this year, and having a 1a and 1b.....is way better than having a 1b and a 2b

[qwijibo]

8 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

In addition, when you look at the talent levels of some of the other teams above us, it is no wonder that Marky is in the middle of the pack......if he was on a better team, my bet would be he would have better stats.............we are 21st in winning percentage today, so I think Marky is holding his own as a starter

 

Top end starter no............middle of the pack starter, I think there is argument for that, and he did pretty much the same thing last year, if I remember right ?????

 

"Peaceful debate!" Cheers

 

As  per comparing Marky to Nilsson.........Nilsson has a smaller sample size this year, and having a 1a and 1b.....is way better than having a 1b and a 2b

My concern is that 18 games as a starter doesn't paint a complete picture.

 

Brian Boucher holds the NHL shutout record going over 5 games in a row without allowing a goal. But no one would suggest he was a top notch starter. Reimer had some very solid stretches with a crappy leafs team as their starter, but the end of the day he proved that he's just a backup. 

 

 Markstrom needs to play at least a full season as a starter before you can tell what sort of starter he is.