The Lack of Toughness and Pushback is Concerning

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'd also be game for shipping Edler with 50% retained to TBL for Cal Foote as @Ghostsof1915 mentioned.

 

As for OP's questions:

 

-IMO, no we shouldn't re-sign the twins. Give +/- $6m of that $14m to Evander.

-We keep Sven until one of Goldobin, Dahlen or otherwise take that spot. Then move him to fill other holes or for more picks/prospects to keep the pipeline stocked.

 

That would be great, but something about that doesn't feel like a deal Stevie Y makes, he'd want more. 

 

Kane is going to get 7+ for 6 years i think.... my biggest concern with him is health, he's never actually played a full season. But man it would change the dynamics up front. 

[Nucker 67]

It's just more noticeable now because Gudbranson and Dorsett are out. Virtanen and Gaunce need to play with more grit (without taking penalties). I agree with aGENT, we need to be patient (Gadjovich and MacEwen should help down the road), I'd also prefer Biega in the lineup over Hutton. Horvat is a bull and can play with grit. Other than Horvat though, this team doesn't have toughness in the top 6, which makes me believe Kane would be a game-changer, exactly the type of player we need. We also have Pettersson, Dahlen and Goldobin coming up, and these guys have very little grit. 

 

Kane - Horvat - Boeser

Gadjovich - Pettersson - Lind

Dahlen - Gaudette - Virtanen

Labate - MacEwen - Lockwood

 

Trade: Baertschi, Granlund, Goldobin, Hutton

 

[PhillipBlunt]

The Canucks are still struggling with an identity crisis, which I think will only be resolved with a roster turnover that includes both Alex Edler and the Sedins moving on. As long as they are the overriding veteran presence, the team will reflect that. While those three have been great players for the organization, none of them have ever been known as players who would stand up for their teammates.

 

Only then can a new core really take shape and define the team culture.

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

That would be great, but something about that doesn't feel like a deal Stevie Y makes, he'd want more. 

 

Kane is going to get 7+ for 6 years i think.... my biggest concern with him is health, he's never actually played a full season. But man it would change the dynamics up front. 

He may very well want more. Maybe we add a bit of sweetener but Edler at $2.5m would give them a ridiculous D to make two solid runs at a cup the next couple years. 

 

I think GM's will still be wary of giving Kane too much money/term given all the concerns people have about signing him in the first place. He could probably get around $7m +/- on something closer to a 4 year deal but if he wants term closer to 6+ years, IMO he'll have to settle for closer to $6.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Would I'd like a player with toughness & skill?  Of course; but at this point, I'll settle with skill (have to start somewhere).  We didn't lose to the Fishsticks last night because they gooned us up with knuckledraggers like Tavares.

[Nucker 67]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

That would be great, but something about that doesn't feel like a deal Stevie Y makes, he'd want more. 

 

Kane is going to get 7+ for 6 years i think.... my biggest concern with him is health, he's never actually played a full season. But man it would change the dynamics up front. 

I think Kane at $7 over 6 years would be fine. No, he hasn't played an entire season yet, but I think it's pretty rare these days that players play a full 82 games.

 

Canucks who've recently played a full 82 games

:

2016/17 - Henrik, Daniel and Luca 

2015/16 - Daniel, Bo

2014/15 - Henrik and Daniel

 

That's 3 seasons and only 4 Canucks players have played a full 82 in that time.

 

[combover]

9 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Would I'd like a player with toughness & skill?  Of course; but at this point, I'll settle with skill (have to start somewhere).  We didn't lose to the Fishsticks last night because they gooned us up with knuckledraggers like Tavares.

No but they set the tone early with two elbows to our young stars and the total response was not even a decent hit on Barzal or any Islanders for that matter.

Hall did it NJ response -zero.

 

effective third and fourth liners are no longer goons they are players that hit and hit a lot guys that make you look over your shoulder and you better know when there on the ice. Especially With the injuries no team in the league is worried about Vancouver forecheck or physicality on any level from any line or a response from targeting the best player on the team. 

Hard to play a skill game when nobody steps up and send a message that hitting our best players will have consequences.  

[DownUndaCanuck]

Guys like Virtanen and Gaunce in our bottom-6 are all well and good but they don't bring much feistiness anymore and don't play with grit the way Dorsett did. Burmistrov, Gagner and Vanek are all nice skilled acquisitions but none bring that intensity. Since losing Burrows, Hansen and now Dorsett, we've lost a lot of intensity on the ice.

 

JB needs to find us another spark plug because it's something so simple that makes the chemistry of this team tick nicely. 

 

If Dorsett is out long-term I'd consider a trade or look within the organization, even if it means giving someone like Labate or Archibald a decent chance because that's what the chemistry of this team needs. We've got plenty of skilled guys now, plenty of defensive forwards but not enough gritty guys now and it's costing us big time.

[PhillipBlunt]

7 minutes ago, combover said:

No but they set the tone early with two elbows to our young stars and the total response was not even a decent hit on Barzal or any Islanders for that matter.

Hall did it NJ response -zero.

 

effective third and fourth liners are no longer goons they are players that hit and hit a lot guys that make you look over your shoulder and you better know when there on the ice. Especially With the injuries no team in the league is worried about Vancouver forecheck or physicality on any level from any line or a response from targeting the best player on the team. 

Hard to play a skill game when nobody steps up and send a message that hitting our best players will have consequences.  

True. The proof is in the pudding. Yes, the Islanders scored three more goals than the Canucks. Part of that had to do with how they managed the Canucks, and how the Canucks responded, or (in this case) didn't respond.

 

When players watch a fellow teammate get manhandled and no one steps up to stand up for them, the effect ripples throughout the team. It takes the wind out of the sails of the team, and everyone plays with a sense of trepidation. And a sense of trepidation never wins hockey games. 

[combover]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

True. The proof is in the pudding. Yes, the Islanders scored three more goals than the Canucks. Part of that had to do with how they managed the Canucks, and how the Canucks responded, or (in this case) didn't respond.

 

When players watch a fellow teammate get manhandled and no one steps up to stand up for them, the effect ripples throughout the team. It takes the wind out of the sails of the team, and everyone plays with a sense of trepidation. And a sense of trepidation never wins hockey games. 

Yup.

nothing new, status quo, I agree nothing will change until the sedins aren’t here, I appreciate  them For everything they’ve done.

The idenity of a team usually starts with its captain and how they act. 

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, combover said:

We have Archie and lebate in the farm wouldn’t that be an improvement over brumistrov and gagner? Especially with both dor and sutter out.Both played well in the preseason. 

I think Archie would need to sign but still he knows his role and plays it well.

They could atleast fill that gap till someone better was acquired either through trade ufa or draft.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. We have what we need in Utica. Time to bring up some character guys to play on our 4th.    Archie, Lebate and Virt would be a solid 4th line. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, combover said:

Yup.

nothing new, status quo, I agree nothing will change until the sedins aren’t here, I appreciate  them For everything they’ve done.

The idenity of a team usually starts with its captain and how they act. 

Few more months comby...

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

Agreed. We have what we need in Utica. Time to bring up some character guys to play on our 4th.    Archie, Lebate and Virt would be a solid 4th line. 

Can we bring up Demko too?  Our two goalies seem to lack mental toughness.

[combover]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Few more months comby...

Bitter sweet thou. You know.

[garthsbutcher]

Matt Martin has fallen out of favour with Babcock in Toronto, Subban for Martin

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, combover said:

Bitter sweet thou. You know.

Yup. Those two are gentleman warriors and future HOF's. Nothing but respect for them and given they've put down roots and have kids in school here etc, I hope they move in to some sort of management/coaching/ambassador etc role with the team. Two extremely high quality people I hope we can keep in the organization and around our youth. 

 

Just not as players. It's time to move on and pass the torch.

[TheGuardian_]

Imagine what the playoffs would look like with even fewer whistles.

 

No one doubts where my head is with regards to management, this IS the team they want, remember the quote "European skill" over Canadian/NA skill.

 

At any rate this was a bottom 3 team last few years and is not going to explode to the top like teams that "plan a tank" do/have.

 

If management wanted help for the kid (singular) they would have signed some tough FA's not "European" skill.

 

[coolboarder]

2 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

We have an overload of the same type of player.The skill/finesse type. I think Gagner needs to sit (WHO CARES IF HE HAS A FAT CONTRACT) 

This team needs some pushback from somewhere. Same with Burmistrov. Bring up Labate and put Bulldog Biega at foward.

Green has to be blind not to see that. 

I think he is not blind to that toughness category.   Remember, he went through a tough type of coach, Al Arbor.  That was a team full of tough guys in the lineup with Stanley Cup winning coach.   He is seeing a changing landscaping but not completely extinct type of league where referees still referee like an old school and old boys club in the league where they still cling to this but would just deliberately call the game with two different rulebooks just for the show which frustrating other clubs as well, sending mixed message.   Once the league gets too big, it's difficult to keep the old boys club type together and one day, many hockey clubs will stand up to old boys club and sweep them out.   It will happen sooner or later.   Politics within the league for the profit's sake will eventually caught them like hand in a cookie jar.  

[Canucklehead73]

I like guys like Dorsett in our bottom six and guddy on the backend. And who wouldn't want a scorer who hits and fights... 

 

What I would not want is our leading scorer like Boeser breaking his hand on some grinders face and make that tradeoff. 

 

You cannot expect players like the sedins to fight... not that I think they woukd do well anyways. Which is another downside... 

 

The canucks current problem. Is finding a workable top six group... they look to have landed a star in Boeser and a good leader in Horvat but need more. So we have more skill guys vying for roles and we try to find that needle in the haystack.

 

Grit seems to have been put on hold for now

 

 

[EoH]

I think when you look at the teams dynamics even going forward we're going to see a trend of 'soft skilled forwards' with the upcomings of Peterson and Dahlen. 

 

I don't know if the dynamics of the team will change that much, however I don't see Bo Horvat and co being a 'physical' presence even after the Sedins retire. Sure maybe they'll be aggressive leaders, but never intimidating in terms of physicality. They rather score on you then take a shot at your face with their knuckles. I'm not going to say how the Sedins are soft leader, but they take a lot of abuse for a reason too. If you think about it if you don't retaliate it lessens the chances for penalty calls to them and increases for the opposition ( as much as some of you hate to agree, it's true ). I think we all have seen whether it's our team or another we're we try to be tough and retaliate, but in the end get a instigator penalty or a penalty that's related because of what player A did to Player B.

 

The point being I think everyone sees all these holes in our teams and tries desperately to dissect our team when we're losing. you may as well throw in a dozen other reasons and start a dozen other topics to address these issues.