Attila Umbrus Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 19 hours ago, MattJVD said: E R....and it’s complete! And I couldn’t agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Nice quote by Green in the Kuzma article from today on Goldobin: ...and please spare me the myopic “we lost anyways” retort. He’s obviously talking long term. “There are not many players in the game who take shortcuts.... The best players work hard all over the rink. We want Goldy to be a full-time NHL player you can win with. I’m not interested in having 20-goal scorers you lose with.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 10 hours ago, samurai said: this almost works until you think about guys like Vanek and Gags. It sounds like Green wasn't liking Goldy's work in practice. Fair enough, but leave the kid in for a bit. This is the old chestnut on here. This coach no matter what has been said to hime or no matter what some fans think is going to survive on results. Subsequently, what we on CDC think is irrelevant on a number of levels, including, we have opinions but lacking in knowledge, by that I mean none of us I suspect have any NHL experience at any level. We are also not present at practice, so not only do we not see how a player performs, more importantly we are not privy to how well a player carries out the role he's been given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanaholic Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 9:33 AM, NUCKER67 said: I'm not sure why Goldobin is sitting. Isn't he one of our better prospects able to play? Instead they call up Chaput, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Megna called up again at some point too. I know it's about icing the best team and winning games, but guess what? They aren't winning. What bothers me more than anything is this: They call him up and he plays limited minutes, maybe about 10 per game, for 4 GAMES and then he sits in the PRESS BOX for another 4 games. Send the kid back to Utica if you don't want to play him. DAMN, I wish Crawford was here . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 hours ago, ilduce39 said: Nice quote by Green in the Kuzma article from today on Goldobin: ...and please spare me the myopic “we lost anyways” retort. He’s obviously talking long term. “There are not many players in the game who take shortcuts.... .....but when there are their names are gagner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 The Sedins were highly-skilled players who were NHL-caliber right from their very first game - Goldobin and Virtanen (despite Jake being drafted in a similar spot) are not even remotely close. So, comparing their usage is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: The Sedins were highly-skilled players who were NHL-caliber right from their very first game - Goldobin and Virtanen (despite Jake being drafted in a similar spot) are not even remotely close. So, comparing their usage is ludicrous. The twins were not good for several years, but the team took the long term development approach and played them anyway. They were slow, and weak but they tried hard and I never heard a word about their practice habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 How did that work out for the club sitting ( reduced ice time ) for the last Russian Tryamkin ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 9:18 AM, Fanaholic said: Does anyone remember CRAWFORD You lost me at Crawford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 hours ago, gurn said: The twins were not good for several years, but the team took the long term development approach and played them anyway. That is just not true - at all. They were just under half a point-per-game players in their rookie year. That's roughly 2x Virtanen's production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 10 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: That is just not true - at all. They were just under half a point-per-game players in their rookie year. That's roughly 2x Virtanen's production. Henrik was not close to a half point a game, Daniel was closer. For all those point Daniel finished a minus 3 and Henrik minus 3. BUt stats don't tell the whole story, the twins were often on their ass watching the opposing player skate away with the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Yes, and Bert was minus-18 that year - and Ohlund was minus-16... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 21 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: How did that work out for the club sitting ( reduced ice time ) for the last Russian Tryamkin ????? I don't mind guys sitting out, but only if they deserve it, and others get the same treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Alflives said: I don't mind guys sitting out, but only if they deserve it, and others get the same treatment. Having younger Russians on your roster is tricky... they have options to just pack up and go play at home for good money. Tricky how you handle them...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 9:18 AM, Fanaholic said: Does anyone remember CRAWFORD in Vancouver and the TWINS just starting their careers? WELL I certainly do. I was a Season Ticket Holder then and the Sedins were ALWAYS on the ice. They were always on the second unit power play and it was PATHETIC. OMG, we would sit in our seats and not even watch. BUT CROW, he didn't care what we thought. He played them. They made lots of mistakes and he still sent them out there. Shift, after shift, after shift. LOOK how they turned out GOLDY makes a mistake, and then he sits for a couple of games. OMG, let the kid play. Jake Virtanen same treatment - make a mistake and out you will sit. WE had a chance to get CROW back and I think we should have jumped on it but we didn't. Lol. I'm so sick of these posts. First of all , the Sedins were not alwyays on the ice when the first started. Just like Ryan Kesler and Alex burrows had to, (and hundreds of other talented players in the NHL) Goldy will be developed not thrown into a roster spot. There are very few players that start off with big minutes or even full time roster spots. Most coaches do the exact same thing. Coach green shouldnt play Goldy non stop just because some fans think they have a shiny new toy the want to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 You want to see what happens when you play kids over the heads? Look at Edmonton pre McDavid. RNH is the only one left on that team from that disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 9:18 AM, Fanaholic said: Does anyone remember CRAWFORD in Vancouver and the TWINS just starting their careers? WELL I certainly do. I was a Season Ticket Holder then and the Sedins were ALWAYS on the ice. They were always on the second unit power play and it was PATHETIC. OMG, we would sit in our seats and not even watch. BUT CROW, he didn't care what we thought. He played them. They made lots of mistakes and he still sent them out there. Shift, after shift, after shift. LOOK how they turned out GOLDY makes a mistake, and then he sits for a couple of games. OMG, let the kid play. Jake Virtanen same treatment - make a mistake and out you will sit. WE had a chance to get CROW back and I think we should have jumped on it but we didn't. You have a terrible memory, I'm sure i'm not the only one here who is laughing at your claims! I seriously doubt your "season ticket holder" claim as well because the Sedins' were not played nothing like you describe! Quit being a troll and making up crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 1:01 AM, darkpoet said: 8 + 5 does equal 10 (in base 13). (Also in base 10 if your user name is "baumerman77".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdgraham Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 1:01 AM, darkpoet said: Common Core. Primary effects: 2 from 5 added to 8 = 10 not 11, then add 3, which = 10 so, 10 + 8 + 7 CAN = 31 10 + 8 = 16 16 + 7 = 31 Understand? posting on this thread just to say what a stupid question like seriously why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 9:18 AM, Fanaholic said: Does anyone remember CRAWFORD in Vancouver and the TWINS just starting their careers? WELL I certainly do. I was a Season Ticket Holder then and the Sedins were ALWAYS on the ice. They were always on the second unit power play and it was PATHETIC. OMG, we would sit in our seats and not even watch. BUT CROW, he didn't care what we thought. He played them. They made lots of mistakes and he still sent them out there. Shift, after shift, after shift. LOOK how they turned out GOLDY makes a mistake, and then he sits for a couple of games. OMG, let the kid play. Jake Virtanen same treatment - make a mistake and out you will sit. WE had a chance to get CROW back and I think we should have jumped on it but we didn't. Let's look at that ice time. They entered the league at age 20 (which for 2nd and 3rd overall picks is actually fairly old) and they weren't healthy scratches-but they weren't getting as much ice time as most of the other Canuck forwards, either. Among Canuck forwards in 2000-2001, the twins' rookie season when they were 20, the order for average ice time went: 1. Andrew Cassels 19:22 2. Markus Naslund 19:03 3. Brendan Morrison 18:22 4. Todd Bertuzzi 17:13 5. Peter Schaefer 16:18 6. Artem Chubarov 15:08 7. Matt Cooke 14:35 8. Trent Klatt 13:33 9. Henrik Sedin 13:31 10. Donald Brashear 13:27 11. Daniel Sedin 13:00 12. Harold Druken 11:59 13/14 Steve Kariya and Denis Pederson, 11:42 each etc So the twins were getting 9th most and 11th most ice time, just ahead of and just behind enforcer Donald Brashear. Think it went way up in their sophomore seasons? Think again. In 2001-2002 they were 10th and 13th among the forwards in average ice time, which was less than during their rookie seasons. Based on the order of ice time, they were given 4th line minutes. 1. Bertuzzi 19:40 2. Naslund 19:31 3. Linden 19:23 4. Morrison 19:21 5. Cassels 17:27 6. Klatt 15:27 7. Hlavac 14:46 8. Cooke 14:03 9. Brashear 13:58 10. Henrik 12:48 11. Letowski 12:47 12. Chubarov 12:37 13. Daniel 12:22 Their 3rd seasons, at age 22? Henrik moved up to 6th at 13:58, Daniel was 9th at 12:26. In their 4th season, age 23, 2003-2004, Henrik was 10th among Canuck forwards in average time on ice with 14:02 per game. Daniel was right behind in 11th place, 13:33 per game. So here we are, two guys drafted 2nd and 3rd, entering the NHL at the relatively late age for such early picks of 20, and in their FOURTH NHL season, at age 23, they're getting 4th line minutes (based on the minutes as they were handed out that year.) For 2nd and 3rd overall picks in their 4th season, that is shockingly low ice time and it can't be explained as the twins not being responsible defensively. Among Canuck forward in +/- in 2003/2004, the order was 1. Naslund + 24 2. Henrik + 23 3. Bertuzzi + 21 4. Daniel + 18. (Yes, I know, +/- isn't a good stat-goals are infrequent enough that the sample size can't help but be small, plus it is difficult to adjust properly for quality of competition, quality of linemates and zone useage. But I don't know an easy way to show defensive responsibility-advanced stats aren't readily available that far back and I don't think anybody was adjusting for QOC and zone starts back then.) It was the 2nd year in a row that the twins' +/- was way better than their ice time. In their 3rd season, 2002-2003, among Canuck forwards Henrik was 4th at +9 and Daniel tied for 5th at +8, while they were getting essentially 3rd line minutes. Even in their 2nd season, 2001-2, Henrik, while 10th in average time on ice, was tied 4th in +/- at +9. So may I suggest they were defensively responsible but getting 3rd or 4th line ice time right through their 4th seasons? May I suggest that Crawford, like all coaches before and after him, did not rush to play the kids? All stats are from hockey-reference.com, going from the Canucks' franchise page, season by season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.