TheGuardian_ Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 It is plain since the start of the season that in the attempt to make the games more exciting and add offence the defence has been way more active in the offensive zone. When it works the team can press quite a bit and hopefully nab a few goals. In a few games it appears they tried to play a more defensive game but were not able to score enough goals for success and in most of those games they were heavily outshot and the game looked rather "slow" and not as entertaining. In games where this has been a success the goalie of the night has had an outstanding save percentage, that can be looked up if you want, but it does indicate a goalie "stealing" a game. Just look at what happens if the goalie is just ordinary. What is surprising to me is that they never gave Subban a chance since they seem to allow all other dmen to roam all over the offensive zone. Subban showed that he had the hands for this experiment even if his defensive side of his game lacked a bit. I mean Biega works really hard out there but he has never been known as a scoring threat. In the last couple of games I noticed some forwards looking to cover for dmen before the dmen did anything, suggesting a game plan maybe. Another thing that is different is Green's game plan, in Utica they played a lot of trap games, that is why Subban was one of the scoring leaders, they relied on the PP more for scoring, they kept the shots against down and were often outshot most games. It is also why so many of the prospects had dismal scoring stats, Virtanen has almost as many points this NHL season as all of last AHL season under Green. Sacrificing defence will create more goals but dmen will look vulnerable, goalies better play vezina quality and the forwards have to skate back to the defensive zone like they have a breakaway. So far the defence just isn't putting up enough points to sustain this but then they aren't playing good enough defence either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Add Demko, Juolevi, Tryamkin (hopefully), and whichever Dman we draft in the first rd this year over the course of the next few seasons and it becomes more sustainable. Obviously our D and goaltending isn't where we need it to be to compete right now, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, and we could use another high pick to nab a true PP QB. I'm not gonna complain about more exciting hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 OPs premise is true, but I'd prefer to watch Green's system break down every once in a while than Willie-D's boring-ass style. It works fine when there's a strong C core, it will again. The question is can we recover in time to matter to the post-season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I thought (and I think everyone else did) that our defense was going to be one of our strengths going in. We had added several seemingly good D men and expected Hutton and Stecher to take a step up. But none of our D has stepped up to help score. And Guddy has been great physically, but he's been injured, it'll be great to see him find his game again. Hopefully Jouleviis ready next year to take someone's spot. I'd love it if we could get a chance to buy out Try's KHL contract (crosses fingers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Are we still talking about Subban? He wasn't even getting game time in Utica this year, so there just wasn't any way he was deserving of ice time in Vancouver. We already had Holm (a similar player doing a much better job) ahead of him in Utica, and Pouliot performing well up here. Subban was/is where he should be, and that's coming from a supporter of his the past few years. I know there was more than Subban in this post, but I struggle to see the point. Green coaches a little differently, but not much. Perhaps he's more adept at in-game changes, but he's still a similar coach to Desjardins. The defence started absolutely terrible for contributing offence - and injuries have not helped - but they've been trying to become a bigger piece over time. That's been helped more by the young talent finding their feet and being supported by the vets finally coming on for stretches. So, are we congratulating Green, the defence, or who for this? Or are we not congratulating any of them, but rather lamenting the lack of talent to play that style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: What is surprising to me is that they never gave Subban a chance since they seem to allow all other dmen to roam all over the offensive zone. I think you might be stuck in a Marc-Andre Gragnani time warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GritGrinder Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 6 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: It is plain since the start of the season that in the attempt to make the games more exciting and add offence the defence has been way more active in the offensive zone. When it works the team can press quite a bit and hopefully nab a few goals. In a few games it appears they tried to play a more defensive game but were not able to score enough goals for success and in most of those games they were heavily outshot and the game looked rather "slow" and not as entertaining. In games where this has been a success the goalie of the night has had an outstanding save percentage, that can be looked up if you want, but it does indicate a goalie "stealing" a game. Just look at what happens if the goalie is just ordinary. What is surprising to me is that they never gave Subban a chance since they seem to allow all other dmen to roam all over the offensive zone. Subban showed that he had the hands for this experiment even if his defensive side of his game lacked a bit. I mean Biega works really hard out there but he has never been known as a scoring threat. In the last couple of games I noticed some forwards looking to cover for dmen before the dmen did anything, suggesting a game plan maybe. Another thing that is different is Green's game plan, in Utica they played a lot of trap games, that is why Subban was one of the scoring leaders, they relied on the PP more for scoring, they kept the shots against down and were often outshot most games. It is also why so many of the prospects had dismal scoring stats, Virtanen has almost as many points this NHL season as all of last AHL season under Green. Sacrificing defence will create more goals but dmen will look vulnerable, goalies better play vezina quality and the forwards have to skate back to the defensive zone like they have a breakaway. So far the defence just isn't putting up enough points to sustain this but then they aren't playing good enough defence either. If Subban's birth certificate said Richmond, BC instead of Toronto, ON he would have gotten a chance. And yes, I'm pointing at #51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 46 minutes ago, GritGrinder said: If Subban's birth certificate said Richmond, BC instead of Toronto, ON he would have gotten a chance. And yes, I'm pointing at #51. I take Stetcher over J Subban 10/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I immediately thought of Marc Crawford when I read the thread title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogersTowell Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Strangely, the system Green is using doesn't work as well when the best defensive players are out with injuries (Sutter, Tanev). Let this be a warning to those who want to trade guys like Tanev and Gudbranson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, RogersTowell said: Strangely, the system Green is using doesn't work as well when the best defensive players are out with injuries (Sutter, Tanev). Let this be a warning to those who want to trade guys like Tanev and Gudbranson. and Sutter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 Green's interview today suggests that all out defence will be starting. Trying to limit goals against down to 2 or less. The team will still need the goalie's to stand on their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 On 12/20/2017 at 9:26 PM, GritGrinder said: If Subban's birth certificate said Richmond, BC instead of Toronto, ON he would have gotten a chance. And yes, I'm pointing at #51. That didn't save BC Boy Jason Garrison from being traded. Stetcher is a better player at this point than Subban, but he did deserve a look. This is the year to experiment, make mistakes and see what we have in our young guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynysterGates Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 56 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Green's interview today suggests that all out defence will be starting. Trying to limit goals against down to 2 or less. The team will still need the goalie's to stand on their heads. This is eerily similar to how Willie started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 On 2017-12-20 at 3:17 PM, TheGuardian_ said: It is plain since the start of the season that in the attempt to make the games more exciting and add offence the defence has been way more active in the offensive zone. When it works the team can press quite a bit and hopefully nab a few goals. In a few games it appears they tried to play a more defensive game but were not able to score enough goals for success and in most of those games they were heavily outshot and the game looked rather "slow" and not as entertaining. In games where this has been a success the goalie of the night has had an outstanding save percentage, that can be looked up if you want, but it does indicate a goalie "stealing" a game. Just look at what happens if the goalie is just ordinary. What is surprising to me is that they never gave Subban a chance since they seem to allow all other dmen to roam all over the offensive zone. Subban showed that he had the hands for this experiment even if his defensive side of his game lacked a bit. I mean Biega works really hard out there but he has never been known as a scoring threat. In the last couple of games I noticed some forwards looking to cover for dmen before the dmen did anything, suggesting a game plan maybe. Another thing that is different is Green's game plan, in Utica they played a lot of trap games, that is why Subban was one of the scoring leaders, they relied on the PP more for scoring, they kept the shots against down and were often outshot most games. It is also why so many of the prospects had dismal scoring stats, Virtanen has almost as many points this NHL season as all of last AHL season under Green. Sacrificing defence will create more goals but dmen will look vulnerable, goalies better play vezina quality and the forwards have to skate back to the defensive zone like they have a breakaway. So far the defence just isn't putting up enough points to sustain this but then they aren't playing good enough defence either. The D were able to transition the puck to the forwards very easily in the beginning of the season. With the multiple injuries and different line combinations I see this has deteriorated since then, hence they have not contributed to the offense as much. The injuries have really changed the way the team has played lately and I believe the d core works fine when healthy. Also , the goalies have been playing really bad lately and we are not going to win any games if they are not at least playing satisfactorily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 Still pertinent and more pronounced. The past reference to Subban had to do with management's claim of developing in the AHL and being given a chance in the NHL, not much to that claim if the player is 2 season's in the AHL, at least this team's players. The games do look more exciting and the single rookie kid is playing regularly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 7 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Still pertinent and more pronounced. The past reference to Subban had to do with management's claim of developing in the AHL and being given a chance in the NHL, not much to that claim if the player is 2 season's in the AHL, at least this team's players. The games do look more exciting and the single rookie kid is playing regularly . You get your NHL chance by earning it in the AHL, not by simply being there. Has his fortune improved since being moved? Nope. The Kings didn't even bother re-signing him. Impressive. TO gave him a 1 year 2 way deal for the league minimum salary and he still hasn't played an NHL game. Impressive. That should tell you something, but I know it won't. Gaudette has played as many games as Pettersson. He even gets PP time. You can be twice as excited now that I pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Baggins said: You get your NHL chance by earning it in the AHL, not by simply being there. Has his fortune improved since being moved? Nope. The Kings didn't even bother re-signing him. Impressive. TO gave him a 1 year 2 way deal for the league minimum salary and he still hasn't played an NHL game. Impressive. That should tell you something, but I know it won't. Gaudette has played as many games as Pettersson. He even gets PP time. You can be twice as excited now that I pointed it out. Just kind of pointing out the number of Canuck AHL players on the team over the last 5 years, his inclusion was from the post back then, 2017. On 12/20/2017 at 3:17 PM, TheGuardian_ said: Sacrificing defence will create more goals but dmen will look vulnerable, goalies better play vezina quality and the forwards have to skate back to the defensive zone like they have a breakaway. So far the defence just isn't putting up enough points to sustain this but then they aren't playing good enough defence either. It does make for an exciting looking game, having a rover, but forwards don't make very good dmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 As it is, one of our best offensive weapons in Boeser two best defensive forwards in Beagle and Sutter are all out. Right now, this roster is gutted so since we look like we are going to lose the game anyways, let the offensive players play their game and develop the skills that they are good at whether it is defensive or offensive. Players can get better at thier individual games while the team shoots for Jack Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyotasfan Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Lack of scoring with all our key injuries. The Colorado game and Boston game were fun but not sustainable when we’re filling in holes all throughout the lineup. Tighter defence ,less jumping up might be just a temporary adjustment until we’re healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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