SN's Best and Worst trades of 2017

[Lastresort318]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

But almost useless AHL D-men who will never play an NHL game are much easier to find than a quality 4th line forward. (See what I did there?)

I know, but he still is young. I would have liked to have taken a risk on Subban then given him up for DOwd.

[oldnews]

8 minutes ago, Lastresort318 said:

I know, but he still is young. I would have liked to have taken a risk on Subban then given him up for DOwd.

I would have agreed with you if this deal had taken place a year or two ago, but at this stage in order for Subban to develop in our system he would have had to be earning AHL minutes - which he wasn't - he was a borderline 6/7/8 in Utica and sitting half the time, so I think it was in the interests of both parties to move him - for Subban to an AHL franchise where he could earn minutes, for the Canucks a serviceable NHLer that they need, who could be a future bottom six asset for them, or help Utica, likely more than Subban was/would.  

Pouliot, Stecher, Chatfield probably sealed out Subban's future here.

It's a depth move of a marginal AHLer for a bottom six forward - if that is Benning's most questionable move of the year, hard to have a problem with his work tbh.

[Lastresort318]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

I would have agreed with you if this deal had taken place a year or two ago, but at this stage in order for Subban to develop in our system he would have had to be earning AHL minutes - which he wasn't - he was a borderline 6/7/8 in Utica and sitting half the time, so I think it was in the interests of both parties to move him - for Subban to an AHL franchise where he could earn minutes, for the Canucks a serviceable NHLer that they need, who could be a future bottom six asset for them, or help Utica, likely more than Subban was/would.  

Pouliot, Stecher, Chatfield probably sealed out Subban's future here.

I agree that the likelihood of him making the NHL is small but after seeing what Benning has gotten out of others who were considered failed prospects, I really don't like giving up on them when they are young as Subban is.

[867-five-309]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

At this point, there is more of a chance that Dowd will prove to be a useful player for many years than Subban becoming an NHL-calibre D-man.

I agree 100%. Dowd, has shown he can play in the NHL. And Subban .... well Subban has not. How do people reach these conclusions?

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, Lastresort318 said:

I agree that the likelihood of him making the NHL is small but after seeing what Benning has gotten out of others who were considered failed prospects, I really don't like giving up on them when they are young as Subban is.

But those guys who's careers have been recovered here have largely been the result of Green (and Desjardins).  In this case, Green has has Subban for an extended period of time, and Cull wasn't getting results either - I suspect Green had a significant say in whether to move on, and probably in targetting Dowd as well (having seen his share of him in the A).

If our coaches don't see progress/results, maybe the same expectations don't apply - and not everyone is going to thrive in this system - maybe L.A. can develop Subban, but in the meantime, Dowd is a reasonable enough return imo.  Additionally, there doesn't appear to be a path to the NHL for Subban with this franchise - or at least I'm highly skeptical that Subban could surpass Stecher for example.

[canuckleheads fan]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:30 AM, NUCKER67 said:

This doesn't count his UFA and other signings, and he's done okay there too, I guess. Burmistrov and Rodin were busts and Wierioch was signed because....? Utica depth? But I like the Vanek and Del Zotto signings, and Gagner has been so-so. Two of Benning's best signings came last year with MacEwen and Chatfield.

 

1. Burrows for Dahlen (A+)

2. Hansen for Goldobin and a 4th (Gunnarsson and Palmu) (A+)

3. Pedan and a 4th (2018) for Pouliot (A)

4. Subban for Dowd (C+)

 

I give Benning an A

 

1

I give Benning no less than a B+ for the Dowd - Subban deal.  The move was forced by need, and it's worked out well.  He got a player who is playing big minutes for us right now, will likely be our 4th line center once we're healthy and maybe into next year if he's resigned at a bargain rate.  He's playing his role well, winning faceoffs and eating up PK minutes.  He's a definite step up on Chaput and Megna, and maybe even Gaunce, as he seems to have more puck skills and plays a heavier game.  In exchange, Benning gave up on a player who had fallen to 6-7 D on the Utica depth chart, and before the trade had been a regular healthy scratch.  The Pouliot trade made Subban, and perhaps Stecher or Hutton expendable.  Subban was never going to play any role with the Canucks.  Giving up on him is the best thing Benning could have done.  If his name had been Jordan Smith, he'd have been playing in Europe two years ago. 

 

I compare it to the Etem - Jensen trade.  Jensen was never going to make it in the NHL, and Etem was tempting due to his speed.  Ultimately, Etem played a lot of minutes but wasn't re-signed, so nothing lost/nothing gained.  In the Dowd trade, JB gets a lengthy look at a young, big-bodied center who plays a heavy game and might be a long-term fix for something we've been unable to draft/sign up to now, and in exchange he gave up a player who he would not have resigned at the end of the season.

 

Next years top 6 D: Edler, Tanev, Juolevi, Pouliot, Gudbranson, Stecher. - Press Box: Hutton

[189lb enforcers?]

The Canucks did good to give Jordan Subban a fresh start. 

 

One thing the Canucks have full stock of is smallish, mediocrely-offensive Dmen. His odds for a chance in Vancouver were negligible. Now he can start fresh and hit reset on his aims. Good for Linden and Benning. 

 

Dowd is a great trade for Benning, actually. He got a NHLer for prospect. One more Chaput/Gaunce role player for ongoing tryouts for future supporting roles of a new core. Was high on him when he was breaking in and hope he steals a spot, if he wants it like he must. 

 

As an aside, it does kind kind of make me wonder why JB didn’t just keep Adam Cracknell then though. You could argue to say that JB just traded Subban for Cracknell, if the values are considered equal between both AHL centres. In that case, it wouldn’t be a great trade after all, but still a win for Jordan and the PR team, which I like too. 

 

I give him an A either way. 

[kloubek]

I agree with the Dowd trade as well.  Its unfortunate to give up on Subban as he showed scoring talent (which we badly need on the blueline) but it just didn't look like he was going to ever be in the NHL.  Even his offensive game dried up so he really needed a fresh start.

 

In return we get a guy who plays a stereotypical strong 4th line role and has a decent 2-way game. He is still young and can improve a bit, and as it stands does have some (though limited) scoring ability as well... although for some reason he's been pointless for almost all of the last two dozen or so games.

 

Bottom line: Hard to rate the trade quite yet but also difficult to claim it isnt a likely win for us.

[D.B Cooper]

On 2017-12-27 at 11:46 AM, RetroCanuck said:

Agreed and honestly we had a descent team until injuries hit. For that reason I feel bad for benning, we've been absolutely decimated by injuries these last few years. Benning made great trades at the last TDL and you can see Benning maturing as a GM. Hopefully this TDL is just as good as the last and we see Vanek, Guddy, a LD and maybe even Tanev traded as I think he's reaching the end of his career. We'd need a RD coming back whether thats a prospect or older cap dump guy.

 

This year I give Benning an A

You think Tanev is reaching the end of his career?  

Care to elaborate?

 

edit:

nevermind.   I went back and saw you tried to defend your statement.  

You did a very poor job, and you are obviously wrong, but you gave it a shot and tried to back it up.

[IBatch]

On 27/12/2017 at 1:49 PM, oldnews said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/news/down-goes-brown-nhl-western-conference-trade-grades/ar-BBHpo2j?li=AAggNb9#page=7

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-nhl-eastern-conference-trade-grades/

 

 

SN graded all the NHL teams for their 2017 trades. 

Other teams, West and East, can be scrolled through.

 

Fwiw, here are their comments on Benning's deals.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

No mention of the Hansen deal - perhaps belonging in the 'to be determined' column - not looking too good for SJ, for Van, we'll see how Goldobin progresses.

I personally would consider the Pouliot deal to be in the 'best deal' running - not just for this team but one of the better deals around the league this year - but that is with the benefit of seeing all of Pouliot's games here.

 

 

 

The one thing that made me really laugh:  (and highly ironic after all the whipping Benning took from the national media as they fluffed Leafs mngt to no end....)

 

 

The Leafs 'best deal' of 2017 was wasting a 2nd round pick during a rebuild to rent a player for a hopeless playoff 'run'.  

 

 

This one, imo ranks as one of the worst / dumbest deals of the year - but hey, criticizing the Leafs probably isn't a good career move, so SN used the kid gloves here.

#justdoitliketheLeafs

 

 

 

Anyhow, good work in 2017 GMJB - with the miss of the year looking like it could be the Gagner signing - however nevertheless with solid efforts in free agency (Nilsson, MDZ, Vanek) and at the draft as well (very excited about the futures of Pettersson, Gadjovich, Lind and DiPietro...)

 

 

 

 

 

But...but...but...I thought Benning can't make a trade or sign a UFA?  That's what I've been arguing he can do.  Suck it complainers.

[IBatch]

On 27/12/2017 at 9:22 PM, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Ok, toss out the analytics and just go with a nice meaty “hockey stat” like time on ice.

 

In 2013-14, Tanev played 64 games and averaged 20:44 a night. 

 

And if you’ll forgive the intrusion (of a brief mention of those pesky analytics), that’s right around when he started getting hyped as a fancy stats darling.

 

He’s pretty much continued at around 20-21 minutes a night and had similar stats, both conventional and analytics. This season, he’s averaging 20:51 a night. And to my eye, he’s a similarly effective player today (and an excellent one at that) to the one he was 4 years ago.

 

I’m just saying that around age 24, Tanev probably became prime Tanev. Maybe it wasn’t obvious until age 26-27 (after he’d repeated his performance level for 2-3 seasons) but he started his prime years around then. And he’s maintained his levels from 24-28.

 

I don’t see him just entering his prime now. He’s been maintaining a similar level of effectiveness for a while now. He’ll likely stay around the same level for another 2 years. Then maybe we start seeing some decline, but barely perceptible (probably will need to run analytics to really see it, but it might start sneaking into your eye test as well). It likely won’t be obvious until he moves from his early thirties to mid thirties, and then Father Time will likely make himself known to everyone (both by analytics and eye test).

 

Maybe he beats the odds. Outliers happen all the time. But I’d say it’s more likely he has an extended prime, say from 24-33, than he somehow starts to trend upwards at age 28 and has his peak years from 28-35 or whatever. I mean, it’s possible, but I’ll be surprised if he somehow finds another gear at this point in his career. He’s already an elite player in his role. And I’d argue he’s been elite for several years now.

 

But we can agree to disagree. And honestly, I think the actual substance of our disagreement is fairly narrow. For the most part, there’s a lot of convergence in the underlying narratives we have for this player and where we see his career going. We’re just coming at it from different perspectives, I suppose.

What you say hold up nine time out of ten for forwards, but sometimes defenseman are weird and all of a sudden play their best hockey in their thirties.  Lidstrom is the poster boy for that, but others like Visnovsky and Schneider also had their peak then too.  Some say ( including me) that Lidstrom started his run of Norris trophies in his thirties because the competition thinned out which is true, but it's also true that he just kept getting better and deserved them.  Expecting Tanev to follow suit is not realistic given all the injuries, but at least for now he's the same old dependable (ala Salo) guy when he does play.

[IBatch]

On 27/12/2017 at 4:26 PM, Canuck Surfer said:

Just my opinion > The astonishing haul that Ottawa paid other teams for Duchesne is mind bending. That is the worst trade I have seen in years. 

 

It also has not worked.  Not that they're killing it? 5-4-1 in their last ten & 3 points out of a playoff spot.  And Colorado looks better so far without, lets keep it low key and call it, the distraction of Duchesne? Whereas Ottawa is 2-6-2 & ahead of only truly doofer squads in Buffalo & Arizona.

It's a little heart breaking for most of my neighbors so far given I live close to Ottawa now.  Watched him play against Boston two days ago and I didn't find his play all that inspiring, but at least it was a level above their true albotross Ryan.   So close last year has messed with management's head, if it keeps up Crawford might again be coaching in this league soon.

[flickyoursedin]

On 2017-12-27 at 1:27 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

I think the way Juolevi is shaping up is going to make moving, or losing Tanev to free agency, much easier to handle. OJ seems like he's going to be a very aware and calming type D to Tanev, with maybe a little more offensive upside. I'd guess Jim wouldn't move Tanev until we see what OJ can do for most of a season. 

 

 

Sometimes you just have to gamble and hope you’re right. If you’re waiting to trade Tanev until Juolevi is established then Tanev probably loses half his trade value. I know it would suck now as our defence would be in shambles but I think our next wave can handle it. I’d trade him now while he’s at is highest value.

[J.I.A.H.N]

On ‎2017‎-‎12‎-‎27 at 11:56 AM, VanGnome said:

Tanev is literally just entering his prime as a defenceman... I think the most Ignorant Comment of the year award has just been claimed.

I don't know, if it is as bad as the comment you are posting on, but I have seen little flaws in Tanev's armour......tiny ones, where he is getting beat wide deap in the zone, and he has always recovered in time.....but these did not happen a couple of years ago.....

 

I know traditionally, dmen reach their prime at 28, but the league for better or worse, has gotten younger and faster.......and Tanev is taking a beating by the young, fast, big forwards.......

 

I wonder, if Tanev's body is breaking down a little? It wouldn't surprise me and it would stand to reason. I know in the NFL, the average RB career is very short, as they take a lot of punishment......

Does this translate into the NHL the same way.........I do not know, but Tanev takes some big hits..........

 

I think his IQ, will hide this while he is still young, but what is he going to look like in 3 or 4 years......which is a long time, I know.......

 

To trade Tanev, we would have to get a grade A prospect and a pick...................not sure there are many teams that want to give that up.........

 

I know Toronto fans talk about Liljegrin  and a 2018 1st..........lots of risk with that, for an elite defensive dman, who probably puts you solidly into the top 6 in the league

That is a Stanley Cup Contender, so I say more! And then they cry and hold their breath!

 

So, unless it is an offer that can't be refused........I think we just hold onto him

 

Maybe Liljegrin, 2018 1st + Kapenan for Tanev....................what's a Stanley Cup worth?

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

 

To trade Tanev, we would have to get a grade A prospect and a pick...................not sure there are many teams that want to give that up.........

 

I know Toronto fans talk about Liljegrin  and a 2018 1st..........lots of risk with that, for an elite defensive dman, who probably puts you solidly into the top 6 in the league

 

So, unless it is an offer that can't be refused........I think we just hold onto him

 

Maybe Liljegrin, 2018 1st + Kapenan for Tanev....................what's a Stanley Cup worth?

2017 was a terrific year for the Canucks. I could list all the good that came to this team in the year, but you were there too. No need. 

 

Tanev is great, but the GMs also see his suspect durability from years of soldiering as a DD. He’s not young or offensively inclined either. I look forward to seeing him traded ONLY to finally see what he was valued at by JBs rivals. Tanev will go down as one of our best DD ever, and the Canucks have had a lot of them over the years. 

 

Toronto must know they are still in the rebuild stage and will not be surrendering players of the caliber you’ve cited for Tanev. 

 

Tanev is a great depth Dman, but not the guy who will win you a cup like we’ve seen teams make trades for in the past.

 

Look at what the Canucks gave up for Guddy, pretty much a solid haul, but not overpayment, in hindsight. Would they get it back now? Probably slightly less, I think. 

 

Guddy is likely who Toronto has interest in, more so than Tanev for reasons like age, size, leadership and snarl for a team of talented youngsters.

 

Guddy is behind Horvat and Boeser for my favourites on the team so I am hoping he stays. 

 

We saw JB use house money to fill gaps with UFAs, so there is nothing stopping him from trading both Guddy and Tanev if a deal was there and replacing them will UFAs of all sorts. 

 

IMO, and of no surprise to anyone reading, I think he should be selling-off the great role players he does have, meaning those who are in that 24-30 year-old group, which other teams can insulate their contending cores with. A rebuilding team doesn’t need those type of players the same way a contender does. It’s a trade advantage a rebuilding team has. 

 

As of today, the Canucks are currently set to pick 5th OA, just like JB planned it, again, right? Possibly a new, new record for the franchise.

 

He may as well make it count this time, at the draft especially. Just this once, go into a draft with multiple top 30, or even top 50, picks to go with whatever prospects come back in trade from an aggressive rebuild scheme. Come into next season with a new core, not a reThingy of yester-year’s. Sitting at 5th makes this much easier for JB to pull the trigger, but will he this time? 

 

Its time to make some trades for the future and finally rip this bandaid off, for good. 

There will be no better time to execute critical rebuild stages than this stretch towards the TDL. The transition period should end this season, but will it?

 

It makes this stretch even more interesting and exciting for fans who are curious which direction the team is heading under an often empathetic, Linden. 

[JM_]

5 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

Sometimes you just have to gamble and hope you’re right. If you’re waiting to trade Tanev until Juolevi is established then Tanev probably loses half his trade value. I know it would suck now as our defence would be in shambles but I think our next wave can handle it. I’d trade him now while he’s at is highest value.

yup I can see that logic. You'd think a team like Edmonton would be trying for him, they need to lower their goals and shots against if they have any hope of picking up the 7 points to make the playoffs. 

[Fan since 82]

On 2017-12-27 at 7:56 PM, VanGnome said:

Tanev is literally just entering his prime as a defenceman... I think the most Ignorant Comment of the year award has just been claimed.

He's quite fragile though. That's kinda where I hope the poster was coming from.

[oldnews]

18 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yup I can see that logic. You'd think a team like Edmonton would be trying for him, they need to lower their goals and shots against if they have any hope of picking up the 7 points to make the playoffs. 

But don't deal him to Edmonton, please.

I know Deadmonton has been struggling and has had problems with team building for ages, but the last thing we need to deal with are Larsson and Gudbranson for years - with a complement of Klefbom, Nurse et al.   Throw in the heavy bodies they have up front and I just don't like that in our rivals stable - particularly when a couple of my favorites in Kass and Gudbranson would be wearing those ugly orange jerseys.  We got Gud - we didn't have to give up a Taylor Hall to land him - I think we should re-sign the guy if at all possible and consider him one more building block in the checked column.

[apollo]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:13 AM, 189lb enforcers? said:

Ahh yes, yes... further examples of the forum’s buffet-like choosing of articles which simultaneously manage to flatter the Canucks, yet dump on the Leafs or Coilers.

 

Anything else is Eastern bias click-bait, or so I’ve read on here. 

+1 Hydration for the awesome pic of Kass! 

[oldnews]

14 minutes ago, apollo said:

+1 Hydration for the awesome pic of Kass! 

bring him back

 

I'd love to see a Gadjovich Zack Zack line.