Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Benning Mentality


Topcheeze86

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Btw, I'm sure we have one of the highest % of players making the NHL out of the draft, per draft, under Benning. 5 alone from the first draft and many more to come (idk if you've heard but players don't always make the NHL right away), but continue B)

Count again!  Benning has drafted 28 players - and only 5 have played any NHL games.

 

Phoenix has had 9 during that span.  Ottawa's had 7.  Bruins have had 7.  Carolina's had 7.  Etc...


EDIT:  Oh, and it's also worth pointing out that only 2 of those 5 players are still on our team (and one of those is Virtanen!).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Count again!  Benning has drafted 28 players - and only 5 have played any NHL games.

 

Phoenix has had 9 during that span.  Ottawa's had 7.  Bruins have had 7.  Carolina's had 7.  Etc...


EDIT:  Oh, and it's also worth pointing out that only 2 of those 5 players are still on our team (and one of those is Virtanen!).

Those numbers are all open to interpretation and circumstance. To early to tell on some, different expectations from different teams. Playing one game in the bigs for instance means nothing to me. You could still be in the minors during that time span and end up a better NHLer than the one player that got a one game call up. Need to look at JB's draft success years from now. He is trending in the right direction. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Count again!  Benning has drafted 28 players - and only 5 have played any NHL games.

 

Phoenix has had 9 during that span.  Ottawa's had 7.  Bruins have had 7.  Carolina's had 7.  Etc...


EDIT:  Oh, and it's also worth pointing out that only 2 of those 5 players are still on our team (and one of those is Virtanen!).

Arizona drafted more players than Vancouver during that time. It's funny how you decided to leave that out. While it's not a "lot" more, it's still 4 more players at 32. 3 of those players whom have iced a game with Arizona have played 3 games or less. So your number of 9 is really 6 in terms of quality. 1 more than Vancouver

 

 Of the players whom have actually played "many" games for Arizona, 2 of them have played around 45 games, Compare that to 1 player on the Canucks in Boeser. Ironically, one of the 40+ game players on Arizona is Keller.

 

Also, you want to talk about Virtanen? Let me 1 up you with Dylan Strome who was drafted 3rd overall in 2015 and has yet to crack Arizona's lineup while the draftees taking 1 to 11 are all on their way to having careers in the NHL. Arizona hasn't really had any more luck than Vancouver than drafting if you think about it. (not that I expect you to think about it, although I would love to be pleasantly surprised)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/28/2017 at 5:54 PM, JamesB said:

 

I don't often agree with oldnews, but I have a similar question here.

 

Aquilini did a mea culpa on the hiring of Torts while Mike Gillis was GM, basically taking responsibility for that decision and correcting it with an expensive buyout. 

 

However, since Linden was hired I am not aware of any credible reports that Aquilini has "meddled". I have seen claims that Aquilini was the driving force behind drafting Virtanen (local interest), that he wants to sign Evander Kane (local interest, and has not happened), that he pressured Benning into pursuing a "win now" instead of a rebuild strategy for the first three years, and one or two other things.

 

But I have seen nothing that seems like genuine evidence of any of these claims. If anyone is aware of any convincing or even suggestive evidence (instead of just supposition) I would be very interested to see it.

 

Aquilini takes a fair amount of criticism on CDC and does not get a lot of support. Personally I think he has been an excellent owner. Not only does he spend to the cap (within approximation error) every year, but he spends a lot on non-cap expenses, including paying for a lot of guys in Utica on NHL salaries instead of AHL salaries. I have not been able to find AHL payrolls for this year, but Utica must be close to the highest. The Canucks (i.e. Aquilini) are also known to be generous on lots of other dimensions as well.

I have never heard him criticize a player publicly or put public pressure on management. And, considering that the Canucks had arguably the worst two-season performance in the NHL in the last two seasons despite being a cap team, he has been extremely supportive and patient.

 

Yes, I know he has a lot of money, but compared with other owners he looks pretty good to me.

Excellent post. There is zero evidence or even a trail of this besides trolls, or people that don't know anything about hockey trying to make themselves knowledgeable via the internet. I couldn't imagine being a Kardashian.  Exhausting. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Count again!  Benning has drafted 28 players - and only 5 have played any NHL games.

 

Phoenix has had 9 during that span.  Ottawa's had 7.  Bruins have had 7.  Carolina's had 7.  Etc...


EDIT:  Oh, and it's also worth pointing out that only 2 of those 5 players are still on our team (and one of those is Virtanen!).

Guardian! How many accounts do you have on here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Count again!  Benning has drafted 28 players - and only 5 have played any NHL games.

 

Phoenix has had 9 during that span.  Ottawa's had 7.  Bruins have had 7.  Carolina's had 7.  Etc...


EDIT:  Oh, and it's also worth pointing out that only 2 of those 5 players are still on our team (and one of those is Virtanen!).

Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling, Boeser, Gaudette, Joulevi, Lockwood, Pettersson, Lind, Gadjovich.

 

All made it, or on track to become NHL players (bolded). Yeah I get you're point of saying that other teams have had more that have played, but we're not rushing our prospects, hence the signings of Gagner, Vanek, MDZ, etc. The luxury of development.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Ya, they said that in Edmonton in 2005.

 

He won't be fired, they just won't re-sign him. Apart from this forum he is not a hero in the mainstream, I think there were a couple of polls that were something like 65+% of the general fans were not on board with the way the team is in the standings.

Context, Guardian! Context!

 

There is not fan on here that doesn't want us winning the cup, but the reality was we went to the cup in 2011, with a core that was at the end of their prime, and declining.

And you know as well as anyone that we had spent all our picks previous to that, trying to get there............

 

There was no prospect pool! So lets be a little realistic here!

 

The Canucks looked like a middle of the pack team this year, until the injuries started to pile up, and you know yourself that once you lose you best Dman and 2 of your top line players, one being your top center, you are going to fall...............personally they do pretty good with what that have....

 

Their prospects are all/mostly still in junior and abroad...........

 

Yes, there is boo boo's........but no GM hits 100%............not even Scotty Bowman

 

It is not that your POV doesn't have some merit, it is that you only have a very narrow, inflexible POV....any normally only state a negative view

 

There is a lot to be excited about..............and if you asked the fans if they are excited about the future............I am sure 65% would say yes............but I can not prove that, as I have no quotes to post with that............just my assumption/opinion....you know, like you did

 

I hope.....that you take TP everywhere you go as, you throw shat on almost everything you see! well, that is my experience with you anyways!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recall more than one media source claiming Benning was in the hot seat and at risk of losing his job.  What a bunch of crap. 

 

I haven't been pleased with all his moves but I generally understood what he was trying to accomplish and you don't win them all.  He is doing a great job rebuilding this team and if people don't see the benefits yet they certainly will in a couple of years when we are solidly a playoff team.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Is that not the purpose of playing the game? Winning? They aren't out there to get a participation ribbon. The ultimate goal of the season is to be the last team to get a win isn't it?

The ultimate goal is winning, but like any tradesman you need the tools to do so....

You don't just buy a hammer and suddenly becomes tradesman of the year.

 

Benning is building us a new team. Will it be strong enough to win a cup, who knows... that why the games are played, but there is light at the end of the tunnel...and its very bright. 

 

And these 65% will dwindle like dew in front of the sun...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Count again!  Benning has drafted 28 players - and only 5 have played any NHL games.

 

Phoenix has had 9 during that span.  Ottawa's had 7.  Bruins have had 7.  Carolina's had 7.  Etc...


EDIT:  Oh, and it's also worth pointing out that only 2 of those 5 players are still on our team (and one of those is Virtanen!).

Wow. What a very basic, simplistic, surface level interpretation of the facts.

 

It's when you start to look at it a little more in depth that the narrative you're trying to create comes crashing down.

 

- Great/elite prospects in every position.

 

- Going from having one of the worst prospect pools in the league to one of the best in relatively short order.

 

- The fact that many of our highest level prospects are either playing in college or overseas, which usually ties them up for a few years after being drafted.

 

- The fact that we're actually taking the time to properly develop our prospects rather than throwing them to the wolves ala EDM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28/12/2017 at 6:05 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

my guess is both sides have said that they want a renewal but they haven't nailed down a specific term yet so there isn't that much urgency and they are letting Jim do his job without major distractions. He's got a lot more things right than wrong and really hasn't left the team with any major issues, and his scouting has been so good you have to let him see things through for at least one or two more drafts.

Pretty much how I feel with the exception of OJ, he's a miss so far with three other defenseman drafted after him playing major roles in each of their respective clubs while we can only hope maybe he works out in a year or two, not to mention passing on MT or even Keller.

 

Boeser makes up for it and I don't buy the fell on his lap argument, he still picked him so it was his pick, and with Jonah G, Lockwood, OJ and Pettersson, we have a respectable amount of prospects represented in the WJs ( seven is the most, most teams only have a couple) and with two good drafts coming up I too want to see what we can get with Benning at the table.  

 

The only thing I wish could of happened earlier was a tear down, but he was anchored with too many NTC/NMC to do that so staying afloat and maybe making it to the playoffs wasn't a bad idea at the time either.  

 

Our defense is so bad right now and past OJ has nobody coming, so drafting Dahlin would be a godsend, Pouloit looks like an upgrade but most guys do (MDZ),  it seems to me that he should have started with drafting them right at the start given they take two more years at least to get going in general, it would sure be nice to have two Werenski/McAvoy types in our lineup right now instead of OJ and JV....but Boeser was a grand slam and evens things out some.

 

Personally I think we are at least two years away from pulling away from the bottom third and into wild card territory, and the next two drafts will determine how we do once we get there (ie. We have enough in our pool now to take us to the 7-8 seed in two years, what Benning can get over the next two years will determine whether we take another step, enter mediocrity etc.)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Wow. What a very basic, simplistic, surface level interpretation of the facts.

 

It's when you start to look at it a little more in depth that the narrative you're trying to create comes crashing down.

 

- Great/elite prospects in every position.

 

- Going from having one of the worst prospect pools in the league to one of the best in relatively short order.

 

- The fact that many of our highest level prospects are either playing in college or overseas, which usually ties them up for a few years after being drafted.

 

- The fact that we're actually taking the time to properly develop our prospects rather than throwing them to the wolves ala EDM.

No kidding.  If your going to say that sort of stuff back it up with the actual players too.  Would you rather have nine guys trying out, maybe a couple sticking in minor roles or one Boeser, Tryamkin and JV.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Count again!  Benning has drafted 28 players - and only 5 have played any NHL games.

 

Phoenix has had 9 during that span.  Ottawa's had 7.  Bruins have had 7.  Carolina's had 7.  Etc...


EDIT:  Oh, and it's also worth pointing out that only 2 of those 5 players are still on our team (and one of those is Virtanen!).

it's also worth pointing out that of arizona's 9, 2 of them have combined for 2 games played with nothing but 0's on the board, one is a goalie that played 3 games and got lit up, and one is a 3rd overall pick who, in his draft+3 year now, has totaled 2 points in 18 nhl games when he was drafted as a franchise centerman. 

 

edit: let's expand on this.

 

ottawa - 6 of the 7 have combined for 18 gp and 2 assists. 

 

boston - I only found 6, not 7, but nonetheless, boston has drafted really well. 1 of the 6 played only 1 game, but the other 5 have been impactful. weird that benning's former scouting staff has drafted so well ...

 

carolina - of the 7, 3 have combined for 13 gp and 2 assists, and 1 is a goalie that played half of one game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, tas said:

it's also worth pointing out that of arizona's 9, 2 of them have combined for 2 games played with nothing but 0's on the board, one is a goalie that played 3 games and got lit up, and one is a 3rd overall pick who, in his draft+3 year now, has totaled 2 points in 18 nhl games when he was drafted as a franchise centerman. 

This.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, IBatch said:

No kidding.  If your going to say that sort of stuff back it up with the actual players too.  Would you rather have nine guys trying out, maybe a couple sticking in minor roles or one Boeser, Tryamkin and JV.  

Furthermore, of the 3 players Benning drafted that currently aren't playing for us, Tryamkin still belongs to us, has proven to be a quality NHL player, and may very well come back. 

 

Forsling was moved for Clendenning, who was moved for Sutter, who is currently playing for us.

 

McCann was moved for Gudbranson, who is currently playing for us.

 

Really, it doesn't take much to completely destroy a simplistic troll comment like that.

 

I might not like the deals, but the way the OP puts it 3 out of the 5 picks Benning has made that have played in the NHL but don't play for us right now are complete washes in which we got nothing in return for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Pretty much how I feel with the exception of OJ, he's a miss so far with three other defenseman drafted after him playing major roles in each of their respective clubs while we can only hope maybe he works out in a year or two, not to mention passing on MT or even Keller

 

Our defense is so bad right now and past OJ has nobody coming

 

gonna challenge you on this is a friendly way just a bit. Its the exception that 18 or 19 year old D make an impact at the NHL level, and while OJ may not be doing that his development as a solid player is coming along very well imo. By the time he hits Utica at 20 he'll have 3 world juniors and 1 season of international mens's league play under his belt, and probably be a call up. Watching him at this years WJ he's looking like the best defensive d-man with Finland, at least to me. When you look at the development of a guy like Salo or Ohlund thats actually better than Salo and similar to Ohlund (who played 3 SEL seasons after his draft).

 

Sergachev is doing very well but you need to look at the context - he's being given over 70% o-zone time, his defensive play is being really sheltered. Thats not to take anything away from him, just pointing out he's not being relied on e.g., in the way Tanev or Stecher are. 

 

So lets see next season, OJ may come up with a great foundation as a solid reliable player. If he can add offence to that he'll be a great player for us. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...