Benning Mentality

[bloodycanuckleheads]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Furthermore, of the 3 players Benning drafted that currently aren't playing for us, Tryamkin still belongs to us, has proven to be a quality NHL player, and may very well come back. 

 

Forsling was moved for Clendenning, who was moved for Sutter, who is currently playing for us.

 

McCann was moved for Gudbranson, who is currently playing for us.

 

Really, it doesn't take much to completely destroy a simplistic troll comment like that.

 

I might not like the deals, but the way the OP puts it 3 out of the 5 picks Benning has made that have played in the NHL but don't play for us right now are complete washes in which we got nothing in return for.

That's not an honest appraisal!

 

For instance, you imply that McCann got us Guds.  That's not the case.  McCann, a low 2nd, and a high 4th got us Guds and a low fifth. 

Then you imply that Forsling got us Sutter.  Again, not an honest appraisal.  Forsling got us Clendening.  Then Clendening, Bonino and a 2nd got us Sutter and a 3rd.

 

So, if you want to be honest, you'd say that Forsling got us maybe 40% of Sutter - and McCann got us maybe a half of Guds.  And, remember, we've been trying to trade Guds for quite a while now and no one wants to pay anything for him!  So, don't pretend he's so valuable.

[oldnews]

13 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

  And, remember, we've been trying to trade Guds for quite a while now and no one wants to pay anything for him!  So, don't pretend he's so valuable.

[Hockey101 class]

I honestly cant say if ownership resigns Benning. yes Boeser is a champ. Vitanen's a beast love this kid but others don't. Elias Petterson might be a waste, might not. Not impressed by his WJC this year so far, hopefully he changes that. Juolevi  i'll admit I was very disapointed we drafted this kid but watching him play the few times this year im excited he's not lighting the lamp at the WJ's but he's playing solid and has a big shot and can hit the net. I ts hard to say what ownership thinks. Benning's done some good $&!# i'd like to see him around a bit longer but ownership might see things differently his 1st round picks are arguable and those are the ones that need to count.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

gonna challenge you on this is a friendly way just a bit. Its the exception that 18 or 19 year old D make an impact at the NHL level, and while OJ may not be doing that his development as a solid player is coming along very well imo. By the time he hits Utica at 20 he'll have 3 world juniors and 1 season of international mens's league play under his belt, and probably be a call up. Watching him at this years WJ he's looking like the best defensive d-man with Finland, at least to me. When you look at the development of a guy like Salo or Ohlund thats actually better than Salo and similar to Ohlund (who played 3 SEL seasons after his draft).

 

Sergachev is doing very well but you need to look at the context - he's being given over 70% o-zone time, his defensive play is being really sheltered. Thats not to take anything away from him, just pointing out he's not being relied on e.g., in the way Tanev or Stecher are. 

 

So lets see next season, OJ may come up with a great foundation as a solid reliable player. If he can add offence to that he'll be a great player for us. 

I agree with what you're getting at regarding Juolevi - and that he's a two-way defenseman, who plays a significant defensive role is important to keep in mind in terms of his development.

The reason Juolevi is not in the NHL - they want him to fill out and develop his strength - so he can play the kind of role at the NHL level that he did as a developing junior and now at Turku (in the Finnish men's league).   His skating, hockey intelligence, puck moving etc are not a concern - it was known that he would take some time to grow and become stronger - so the team is being patient - as anticipated - and his development timeline is not a rush - the team is transitioning and not desperate whatsover to rush him into the NHL.

Juolevi may have a very strong partner once he does arrive here - who knows who that will be whether Tanev, Gud, Stecher or other - but there's no need to rush him in and shelter him - nor expose him to 230lb forwards and the NHL forecheck at this point.  He'll be bigger, stronger and more confident when he does emerge and by all accounts he looking awfully damn good in Turku with 14 pts in 20 games and +9 as a 19 yr old D in SM-liiga.

[GreyHatnDart]

7 minutes ago, Hockey101 class said:

I honestly cant say if ownership resigns Benning. yes Boeser is a champ. Vitanen's a beast love this kid but others don't. Elias Petterson might be a waste, might not. Not impressed by his WJC this year so far, hopefully he changes that. Juolevi  i'll admit I was very disapointed we drafted this kid but watching him play the few times this year im excited he's not lighting the lamp at the WJ's but he's playing solid and has a big shot and can hit the net. I ts hard to say what ownership thinks. Benning's done some good $&!# i'd like to see him around a bit longer but ownership might see things differently his 1st round picks are arguable and those are the ones that need to count.

[oldnews]

7 minutes ago, Hockey101 class said:

I honestly cant say if ownership resigns Benning. yes Boeser is a champ. Vitanen's a beast love this kid but others don't. Elias Petterson might be a waste, might not. Not impressed by his WJC this year so far, hopefully he changes that. Juolevi  i'll admit I was very disapointed we drafted this kid but watching him play the few times this year im excited he's not lighting the lamp at the WJ's but he's playing solid and has a big shot and can hit the net. I ts hard to say what ownership thinks. Benning's done some good $&!# i'd like to see him around a bit longer but ownership might see things differently his 1st round picks are arguable and those are the ones that need to count.

I'm pretty happy with his WJC - but his season at Vaxjo thus far is nothing short of elite.  He's 18 years old and leading the SweHL in scoring - well on his way to one of the most dominant seasons a young player has ever accomplished in the SHL - among some great company.

[Hockey101 class]

I konw 

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

I'm pretty happy with his WJC - but his season at Vaxjo thus far is nothing short of elite.  He's 18 years old and leading the SweHL in scoring - well on his way to one of the most dominant seasons a young player has ever accomplished in the SHL - among some great company.

I know that that's kinda why im disappointed i had high hopes but  havnt seen much two nicely placed shots placed being the key word i expected more dominating performance. The tournaments young lots a time left just nice to get a chance to watch these kids.

[Silky mitts]

5 minutes ago, Hockey101 class said:

I konw 

I know that that's kinda why im disappointed i had high hopes but  havnt seen much two nicely placed shots placed being the key word i expected more dominating performance. The tournaments young lots a time left just nice to get a chance to watch these kids.

Boeser has a terrible wjc and look at him now. Tourney doesn’t mean jack

[48MPHSlapShot]

1 hour ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

That's not an honest appraisal!

 

For instance, you imply that McCann got us Guds.  That's not the case.  McCann, a low 2nd, and a high 4th got us Guds and a low fifth. 

Then you imply that Forsling got us Sutter.  Again, not an honest appraisal.  Forsling got us Clendening.  Then Clendening, Bonino and a 2nd got us Sutter and a 3rd.

 

So, if you want to be honest, you'd say that Forsling got us maybe 40% of Sutter - and McCann got us maybe a half of Guds.  And, remember, we've been trying to trade Guds for quite a while now and no one wants to pay anything for him!  So, don't pretend he's so valuable.

Your post implied that 3 of the 5 guys that have played in the NHL that Benning has drafted that no longer play for us are lost assets. I disputed it and provided evidence to the contrary.

 

Cheers.

 

edit: your neg implies that you're mad.

 

u mad bruh?

[oldnews]

12 minutes ago, Hockey101 class said:

I konw 

I know that that's kinda why im disappointed i had high hopes but  havnt seen much two nicely placed shots placed being the key word i expected more dominating performance. The tournaments young lots a time left just nice to get a chance to watch these kids.

Pettersson has made a handful of absolutely beautiful passes/setups - in a tournament that is only a few games deep.

Maybe you're weighing a bit too much on every shift.  Sweden is loaded with unreal talent - I wouldn't expect to see Pettersson dominating alone.

That's a team with a whack to top10 draft talent - Andersson, Nylander, Dahlin, Pettersson - and some great talent beyond that - Boqvist, Brannstrom, Kiljegren...

Regardless, he's the best player on the ice - and somehow manages to slip under so many people's radar.

It's actually remarkable how many TSN, THW types completely whiff on how good he is as they laud less talented prospects.

[48MPHSlapShot]

36 minutes ago, Hockey101 class said:

Elias Petterson might be a waste, might not.

You do realize he's putting up historic numbers in the SHL, right?

 

Like, not just "good" or "great", but historic.

 

Just to put it in perspective, if he had half as many points in the same number of games, most people would say he was having a good season.

 

Just to put it in perspective, he has almost twice the number of points Nylander had in his draft + 1 year in just five more games played.

 

Just to put it in perspective, he has 21 more points then the next highest scoring under 20 player in that league (Lias Andersson).

 

Just to put it in perspective, he's outpacing Forsberg, Naslund, and both Sedin twins in their equivalent years. 

[oldnews]

16 minutes ago, Silky mitts said:

Boeser has a terrible wjc and look at him now. Tourney doesn’t mean jack

Jordan Schroeder is probably the best WJC performer this team ever had....

 

It's great to see our prospects there - great if they do well - but either way it doesn't really define their NHL career potential on any level.

It's a short term tournament of players brought together from lots of different teams - and it's a one-off accross the board.

Can't weight too much on it aside from seeing what they're capable of in a limited sense.

And there are always players absent that turn out better than those at the WJC.

I really wouldn't judge Lind for example based upon not being selected to that team

 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

35 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

edit: your neg implies that you're mad.

 

u mad bruh?

No, you've been down-voting all my posts for quite a while now (whereas, I was not down-voting you) - I got sick of it, so I thought I'd start showing you (and the others) a bit of your own medicine for once.

 

EDIT:  Apparently it worked, because you got mad within seconds!

 

EDIT 2:  And so did Oldnews!  What a surprise!  So, you guys can dish it out, but you can't take it, eh?...

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

gonna challenge you on this is a friendly way just a bit. Its the exception that 18 or 19 year old D make an impact at the NHL level, and while OJ may not be doing that his development as a solid player is coming along very well imo. By the time he hits Utica at 20 he'll have 3 world juniors and 1 season of international mens's league play under his belt, and probably be a call up. Watching him at this years WJ he's looking like the best defensive d-man with Finland, at least to me. When you look at the development of a guy like Salo or Ohlund thats actually better than Salo and similar to Ohlund (who played 3 SEL seasons after his draft).

 

Sergachev is doing very well but you need to look at the context - he's being given over 70% o-zone time, his defensive play is being really sheltered. Thats not to take anything away from him, just pointing out he's not being relied on e.g., in the way Tanev or Stecher are. 

 

So lets see next season, OJ may come up with a great foundation as a solid reliable player. If he can add offence to that he'll be a great player for us. 

I'm not saying he's a bust and am actually very glad we have him, because we'd be even thinner in our up and coming blue line ( I am a Brisbois fan and wouldn't be surprised if he makes the team at some point and had a similar impact as Hutton), and maybe one day we can look back and say we did all right.  It's a little frustrating to see other guys already in and making an impact, Sergechev is earning his minutes but isn't carrying the mail yet for sure, especially with Hedman on the team.. McAvoy is playing much tougher minutes.

[48MPHSlapShot]

17 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

No, you've been down-voting all my posts for quite a while now (whereas, I was not down-voting you) - I got sick of it, so I thought I'd start showing you (and the others) a bit of your own medicine for once.

 

EDIT:  Apparently it worked, because you got mad within seconds!

 

EDIT 2:  And so did Oldnews!  What a surprise!

lol

 

[GreyHatnDart]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm not saying he's a bust and am actually very glad we have him, because we'd be even thinner in our up and coming blue line ( I am a Brisbois fan and wouldn't be surprised if he makes the team at some point and had a similar impact as Hutton), and maybe one day we can look back and say we did all right.  It's a little frustrating to see other guys already in and making an impact, Sergechev is earning his minutes but isn't carrying the mail yet for sure, especially with Hedman on the team.. McAvoy is playing much tougher minutes.

To me McAvoy is having the best year so far in his respective position. Having said that though, 13 other teams passed on him as well before Boston picked him, so it's not as if we're the only team that should be wishing they'd picked him. 

[Freeridebc]

We've also yet to really see Dahlen in a camp... which how can you not call that trade a win?

 

Point made 100 times...call it a fluke ornluck or what have you. We still got Boeser at 23. After seeing 22 GMs pass on him and JB basically say he felt like he won the lottery him being available at 23. I'm excited to see this year and hopefully 3 more at least.

[bloodycanuckleheads]

8 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

lol

 

I see you've stopped down-voting me finally.  So, it appears you care a hell of a lot more about the voting here than I do...

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

gonna challenge you on this is a friendly way just a bit. Its the exception that 18 or 19 year old D make an impact at the NHL level, and while OJ may not be doing that his development as a solid player is coming along very well imo. By the time he hits Utica at 20 he'll have 3 world juniors and 1 season of international mens's league play under his belt, and probably be a call up. Watching him at this years WJ he's looking like the best defensive d-man with Finland, at least to me. When you look at the development of a guy like Salo or Ohlund thats actually better than Salo and similar to Ohlund (who played 3 SEL seasons after his draft).

 

Sergachev is doing very well but you need to look at the context - he's being given over 70% o-zone time, his defensive play is being really sheltered. Thats not to take anything away from him, just pointing out he's not being relied on e.g., in the way Tanev or Stecher are. 

I wouldn't get too caught up in zone starts for two reasons.  One, ozone starts only make up a vary small percentage of all shift starts, the majority line changes don't occur during a faceoff, so it doesn't tell the whole story. And two, because zone starts varies team to team.  What zone a player starts at on a face off is reliant on where the previous line ended their shift.  For example, a offensive team like Hawks have 57% of there starts in the offensive zone.  The have taken 681 faceoffs in the offensive zone this year and only 459 faceoffs in the defensive zone. (only 3 of there reg roster players are under 50% ozone starts).  Compare that to a team like the Coyotes.  They only have a 45% ozone start, 598 offensive zone faceoffs vs 721 defensive zone facesoffs.  Just because OEL is only getting 48% ozone starts, it doesn't mean he's being relied on as a shut down D, it's that his team doesn't generate that many ozone starts and he is actually leading his D core in the most offensive zone starts. 

 

With that said I would say Sergachev is getting sheltered but, most rookies should be sheltered when coming into the league, especially ones that are heavily regarded in there offensive skills.  Brock this year is getting 60% ozone starts, if Pettersson makes the team next year I hope he gets something similar.   Same with Juolevi, he might not get the high ozone starts but he will/should be sheltered against the quality of competition he plays against.  The last thing i want is him making the jump and getting put against McDavid, Kopitar and Getzlaf, only for his confidence to get destroyed. We need to make the transition as easy as possible, keep their game simple and let them get accustomed to the transition, as they start to get more and more comfortable, then we can start adding in more responsibility.  

 

 

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

I agree with what you're getting at regarding Juolevi - and that he's a two-way defenseman, who plays a significant defensive role is important to keep in mind in terms of his development.

The reason Juolevi is not in the NHL - they want him to fill out and develop his strength - so he can play the kind of role at the NHL level that he did as a developing junior and now at Turku (in the Finnish men's league).   His skating, hockey intelligence, puck moving etc are not a concern - it was known that he would take some time to grow and become stronger - so the team is being patient - as anticipated - and his development timeline is not a rush - the team is transitioning and not desperate whatsover to rush him into the NHL.

Juolevi may have a very strong partner once he does arrive here - who knows who that will be whether Tanev, Gud, Stecher or other - but there's no need to rush him in and shelter him - nor expose him to 230lb forwards and the NHL forecheck at this point.  He'll be bigger, stronger and more confident when he does emerge and by all accounts he looking awfully damn good in Turku with 14 pts in 20 games and +9 as a 19 yr old D in SM-liiga.

It was really odd seeing some of the talk on him after that 1st world junior game, I though he looked great. Someone posted every shift of his over in the prospects thread and he only made 1 mistake all night, pretty impressive. More than that he had a "Tanev-ness" that I really hope translates up here. 

 

btw... how did this deserve a -1?